Bullet Expansion-Testing Medium

[BruceB]

Down on the Lever Gun forum, I responded to a question from Deputy Al about impact-testing some cast softpoints.

I said that in the absence of anything better, I was seriously considering building a water trough. Water is NOT a very good test medium, but it's available, it's cheap, it's consistent, and it DOES at least allow direct bullet-to-bullet comparisons. What it doesn't tell us is what will happen when a bullet meets an animal.

However....last night I took a stack of old "Handloader" and "Rifle" magazines to work, as I enjoy going back and re-reading a wide variety of articles. One such article was by Mike Venturino, on loading and testing snake-shot loads for large-bore handguns. His test medium intrigued me, but the idea sorta submerged for the evening, until it hit me full-force this morning.

POTATOES!!!!!!!!!

-Easy to transport.

-Fairly inexpensive.

-No loss of medium through bullet holes in the container, as happens with water.

-More resistant than water, due to the fibrous content, but still a very high water content, just like flesh.

-Consistent....just remove damaged spuds from the trough after each shot, and keep the trough full. Smaller spuds would be more desirable, I think, to minimize the size of any air-gaps between the veggies.

-Biodegradable...the birdies will appreciate the groceries. Just have to dump them out-of-sight somewhere.

A five-foot-long, foot-square trough (with plywood top) full of spuds should stop most bullets. If it doesn't, Plan B would include not just the spuds but ALSO topping the trough up with water to increase the resistance. It would require hauling a lot less water, for sure, than testing with water alone.

I like this idea. Maybe on my next long 8-day shift change I'll take a run at this and see what happens.

To get an idea of what's actually happening with the home-thrown bullets, I think that firing a Partition or X-Bullet into the medium will give me a baseline. I KNOW what Partitions and X-Bullets look like when recovered from animals, and the direct comparison of these superb game bullets to a cast softpoint impacting in any artificial medium could be enlightening.

[DeanoBeanCounter]

Good idea. To reduce the air gaps from larger potatoes, just cut them once or twice and they will just fall right into place.
Keep us posted.
Deano
:Fire:

[standles]

I have used plumbers putty as well.

Worked great with 357 mag jacketed rounds.

My daughter did a series of test with different loads. She was looking at would cavities from them and looking at which ones created more shock. We also got some of those shipping stickers that show if something had been dropped. They come in different shock settings. Stuck those on the outside and had a go.

The public range donated the ammo and range time when they found out it was for her Science Fair Project. The local school board about had a fit. Absolutely denied any permission to display the firearm, loaded ammo, or even the expended rounds.


Steven

[hunter64]

BruceB: What I use is old yellow pages books soaked in water. I made a small pine board frame that holds the telephone books upright and it is 8 books deep of our yellow pages so about 2 1/2 feet long. I put the phone books in a 5 gallon pail and fill it up to the top with books and then of course I fill with water. I usually have 5 pails full and I let them sit a week till I get to the range. When I load them into the back of the suburban I of course dump out most of the water, place lids on them and off I go. I set up the little pine wood frame at the 100 yard range and then haul down a couple of buckets of phone books and set them end up in the box. This is alot of work but it will definitely tell you what your bullet is doing at 100 yards and is as close as you can get to actual results. It really shows you not only the expansion of the bullet but also the wound cavity. Depending on the rifle that you are using, I shoot the phone book about 3 or 4 times in different locations and then remove the bullets and the books and put new ones in. I take careful measurements of the depth of the wound cavity and expansion of the bullet. On my way home I just drop the books in the recycling bin by our food store and that is that. My method works for me and has for 25 years now. The funny thing is that when I get to the range everyone wants to see what there bullets will do also.

[357maximum]

Potatoes for test medium...I love it

Best part is around here they are free for the gleaning, I'll have to grab a few extra crates next time out, thanks Bruce

[shotstring]

Phonebooks are certainly the standard for inexpensive tests and the results have always been very consistent. I have also used potter's clay in large blocks. I think they were about 14" square but can't remember for sure. I have even put a cow's thigh bone from the butcher inside the clay to test fragmentation when hitting major bones.

[Bass Ackward]

We have used chopped pumpkins in the past because of availability. But all testing must be done in a short time as your medium will freeze, evaporate or rot. So testing has to be organized and as thorough as you want it to be. If you need to change or alter something with cast which can take time, this can be a disadvantage. I suspect that potatoes are going to have a down side too that is just not apparent yet. Around here, that would be cost.

What ever you decide on as a medium stick with it. Don't jump around. Medium translation is weakest when you are always changing. Next years tests must correlate to testing you will do ten years from now. This is how you really get a good feel for what you are seeing that will turn out to be correct on game.

Baselines are good to start, but decades of baselines are better. :grin:

[DanWalker]

My medium is a combination of things.
I use a thin(1 to 2") water soaked phone book on the front, with a gallon jug of water placed behind it, and backed by another water soaked phone book, with a scrap piece of plywood behind it. This conglomeration is held together by several wraps of duct tape.
My reasoning for this instead of a solid stack of phone books is that few animals are homogenous. There's layers of muscle, over bone, separated by a void(chest cavity)
I'm trying to simulate my favorite hunting shot with cast boolits.
I prefer a broadside or slightly quarterting shot that hits the opposite shoulder on exiting.
I think a solid medium tends to make an expanding boolit open up much more than actually happens inside an animal. I think solid medium is great if you want to test straight line penetration or to see if your boolit is going to shear or breakup when it expands.
I've tested my method against actual performance on game(hogs and deer) and the wound channels have been very similar.
Anyhow, that's just what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

[7br]

Didn't American Rifleman just run an article on media for expansion?

[jhalcott]

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=739849&t=11082005
has ANY ONE tried the bullet test tube?

[DeanoBeanCounter]

I just remembered. Try:
www.theboxotruth.com/
This guy does a lot of experimenting.
Deano

[BruceB]

Thinking over this idea of using spuds as a medium for bullet comparisons, I've decided a couple of things.

First, it doesn't matter in the final analysis if the spuds are intact or not. The difference in resistance between potatoes confined by their skins and those that are all torn up, will be miniscule. This means that I can probably fire as many bullets into the medium as I want, and just recover them all at the end....they just have to be clearly marked.

Second, it would also be possible to do an initial test with spuds alone, and then add some water to the smashed-up spuds to create a slurry medium for yet another test.

I don't have decades of cast-bullet expansion testing behind me, on game or anything else, nor do I have decades left before me to study the issue....but I DO have decades of digging Nosler Partitions out of assorted defunct fauna. The vast majority of my Partitions sailed right through the recipients, but I reckon I've seen a couple of dozen assorted-caliber Partitions which accomplished their tasks. This is why I propose to use Partitions as a sort of benchmark for the cast loads. If the partitions expand in a recognizeable manner, and then the cast bullets do likewise, it at least will give me a direct comparison in THAT medium.

Good grief...it just occurred to me that it might be possible to use institutional-sized packages of INSTANT spuds for this job! Better than water, and maybe easier to handle than real spuds, and certainly consistent. No waiting time for gelatin to set up, either.

I do get off on some strange tangents in this casting game.

[Blammer]

just go buy some #10 can of dry instant mashed potatoes, add the appropriate amount of water and use that....

[BABore]

Goats! :-D

I talked my shooting buddy into getting some cheap ($10) kid goats for next spring. During the summer months they'll be keeping the range grass down. Come fall they'll be test media followed by a barbeque.


One item that I just thought of, that may work pretty good, is oatmeal. Get a 50 lb bag of rolled oats from the mill and boil up a batch in a turkey fryer kettle. They set up pretty good in cool weather. Ever pull left over oatmeal out of the fridge the next day? They're probably stiff enough to hold the wound channel. You can then mush them back together and go again. Adding some cornstach would set them up stiff enough to form blocks.

[dakotashooter2]

How about a 25-50# bag of pinto beans? Soak overnight set up and shoot.

[frank505]

At the Linebaugh seminar in Cody WY we use 4 inches of wet paper, a cow bone, and about 5 feet of wet paper. The paper is soaked overnight before we use it.
Gary Sciuchetti (?) did a test using road killed deer to start and ended up with wet paper as the two test mediums performed the same. All his testing was done with 30 caliber 180 grain "J" bullets and it is very interesting. The link
www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg

[357maximum]

Goats! :-D

I talked my shooting buddy into getting some cheap ($10) kid goats for next spring. During the summer months they'll be keeping the range grass down. Come fall they'll be test media followed by a barbeque.


.


I like it I like it, do not forget to send the appropriate invitations to the goatBque Bruce:-D

I did not know you could get $10 goats, sure beats a 2K lawntractor in my book, and shooting then eating the evidence...SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET