New Marlins or Rossi???

[vmathias]

Looking into getting a new Lever Action. Need some opinions on which one as far as quality goes. Heard the new Remington made Marlins are not the same quality as the older ones. Calibers I am looking for are 454, 44 mag and 45-70.

[joec]

I have a Rossi 45 Colt and a Rossi Rio Grande in 45-70 that I purchased after comparing it to a pair of Marlin 45-70 about 6 months ago. Now Rossi rifles are fine however with the 92 they need to be completely stripped which is not easy the first time to do since putting the bolt back in can be tough. The Rio Grande however strips just like the Marlin 336 so it is a piece of cake. With that said keep in mind both cases they are mass produced an very little if any hand finishing on the guns but them for the price compared to a Marlin they are inexpensive.

The 92 need some work in the buff and shine department but after about an hour it was really a smooth gun and I've shot thousands of rounds from black powder loads to full power 300+ gr hunting loads without a hitch. For this I highly recommend getting Steve Gunz DVD and tune kit as it gives you the break down and put back together instructions as well as taking the gun to a step above which I did. Cost of gun including Steve Gunz kit out the door was just under $480.

Now the Rio Grande and two small spots that need addressing, lighting the loading gate and some polishing on the front of the carrier. Took at total of 5 minutes. Other than that it was the best finish I've seen on any gun I've ever owned and that is a lot of them. It actually needed less than most Marlins do NIB which these where. Both rifles come loaded with grease and really need a complete cleaning before shooting them. This gun NIB with Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5x32 scope with rings was just under $500 out the door.

Both guns have worked out well for me but then I am willing to take the time to make them right. However many don't and then complain when they have feeding problems or light hammer strikes so it really comes down to checking the gun out before buying it and load some snap caps through it to test feeding problems.

[hanleyfan]

I guess it is how picky you are, I bought two Rossi 92s and both worked great right of the box, the action on one was a little siffer than the other one but they both were fuctional. Now I did buy a new Marlin 1894 that I had to spend 3 hours working on it just to get it to chamber a round, when I got it new it would jam every round from the get go. Now I have got it working ok but when you spend 600.00 on a gun you should not have that problem.

[Duce53]

Vmathias:
I would not buy new, you're in PA. The last time I was there it seemed as if there was a Mom & Pop gunshop in every town. The older Marlins are better. I really don't want any safe queens, while I don't want a rifle that is beat to death there is something about one that you wish it could talk. I own a 1895 Marlin in 45/70, 5 336's .35 Rem, 30/30, .44mag, 1894 .44 mag. and 2 39's one's a Mountie. You love to hunt, hunt down that rifle you want, they're out there. Don't over look a Savage 99, you're in or close to rifle hunting country, one in 30 Savage might just be the ticket. Check a manual I think ballastically it's close to .308 and can use spitzer bullets. Shoot I'm trying to fine a Savage 99 in 250/300 that I can afford. Here's a couple pictures..................<>< Duce

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/44_Marlin_1894.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/After_1.jpg

[HiVelocity]

I agree with Duce53, there's something about an older used rifle that just hollers, "take me home".

Hopefully, the previous owner fixed whatever didn't work. I have an older Rossi 16" SRC in 45 Colt (Interarms) that I love. It looks rustic, chambers my handloads like they were made for each other, and hits like a ton of bricks when I need it to. Personally, "ANY" levergun is worth having. The more the merrier. Just my thoughts,

HV

[blikseme300]

Reworking a new rifle to make it work properly is so wrong on many levels. I looked at a number of Rossi rifles and could not get to part with my money for such poorly finished products. I will bide my time and buy oldies that work the way they were intended to.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I don't think there is any real problems witht the new Marlins that a bit of elbow grease wouldn't fix.

I have both Marlins and Rossi 92s and they are equally good in the 'quality of the important stuff department.'

I haven't had any experience with the big Rossis and have only had one bad report about them and that was from the local gunshop that has a shelf full of new Marlins, so I took his criticism with a grain of salt. Before he retired, Ranch Dog had a few articles about the big Rossis and sang their praises, actually had a small forum site.

The main decider for me in a lever rifle would be do I want to use scope sights or open sights. The Rossi 92 does not lend itself to telescopic sights (apart from scout scope designs which may or may not please you) but the Marlins are easily scoped.

One thing about living in a free (ish) country, is that if it doesn't work out, you can buy another later on or trade it in. Wander along to the closest cowboy action range and introduce yourself. They will give you a shot of the various types. They will probably try and sell you on an 1873, which s a great rifle, but not really strong enough for a diet of heavy hunting loads, whereas the Rossi (also read Winchester 92 and 94) and Marlins will do so and outlast you with a minimum of care.

[vmathias]

I have looked into buying one of the older model Marlins, Seems they are still pretty steep in price ($500 plus) even though they are used. Not a big fan of buying used firearms though, Had some bad experiences. You never really know how many rounds were put through them or the abuse they may have taken.

[NVScouter]

I'm happy with my Rio Grande and feel it gives the new Marlins a run. But like Deuce said dollar for at an older rifle may be better.

My Rossi shoot good but the but pad is too stiff for a 45-70 in a 6# rifle from the bench. From the shoulder it's fine. I added a Mauser gring to fit for a test run fairly close fit. I'm also thinking g it may get a parkerizing job. For $500 it'll do what it's supposed to do as well as all the other 20" 45-70s.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
The Ranchdog Rossi Rifleman site is still out there and full of Rossi info.
Now here I am again in Peru and there are no Rossi's anywhere. I would gladly buy a caliber .357. But alas... seems that will not be for a few more years.
Mike in Peru

[knifemaker]

You have to be careful on buying a used Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. They are notorious for having oversized barrel groove dia. I bought one with a micro groove barrel that had a groove dia. of .431 at the breech end and the muzzle end was .432. Never could get that rifle to shoot any decent groups. Now I know why the original buyer sold it to me.
About a year before Remington took over Marlin, I sent that rifle to Marlin to have it rebarreled, on my dime, with a standard rifling barrel. got it back from them and the darn groove dia was .431 and had to use .432 or .433 cast bullets just to get any decent groups.
Now the other end for Marlin. At a gun show about 6 years ago I bought a NIB Marlin 1895 LTD-V in 45/70 that was a Davidson special made in 1999 I think. That rifle had a very smooth action from the get go and I have worked up three different loads of cast and Hornady jacket bullets that will print one inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards. That rifle was my main hunting rifle for several years for taking buffalo and wild boars and will never be sold. My oldest son has dibs on it when it does leave my gun safe.
So be careful on buying used, you may be getting someone else's lemon that he is getting rid of for one reason or another. Do a careful check, but I doubt any seller will stand for you slugging the bore to determine if it is oversize or has choke points in the bore, but again you could get that problem in a new rifle also.

[MBTcustom]

Look into Pedersoli. Quality is there.
New marlins? Lay down too much money and take it to a gunsmith first thing to clean up behind the factory. That's one of a gunsmiths jobs these days: wiping the a$$ of the American gun manufacturers. There is no such thing as American quality except in a few narrow slices of the industry. If you want true quality, it will be made in europe, or fifty years ago in America.

That being said, Marlin is now at the top of my list of overpriced junk you should avoid like the plague. Some of the stuff I have fixed for clients is such a complete faceplant, (12lb triggers, loose bolts, only functions when the screws are loose, wood/metal fit that makes an AK-47 look like a Shiloh sharps, barrels that look like they ran a tap down the bore, sights that are off center at 1:00) that its obvious that human eyes never even took a passing glance at it. Marlin is a thing of the past, so buy those that were made in the past, or don't even go there.

[Duce53]

Vmathias:
Marlins do seem to be at the top end as far as cost. The cut down 336 I posted the picture of was bought off Gun Broker for $165. Sounds good and was, it had been used by a conservation club for training. They had removed the firing pin and plugged the bolt with JB Weld. Replaced the pin, did some lathe work, and ended up with one of the handiest rifles I've ever owned. Watch Armlist, here in Indiana we have INGO {Indiana Gun Owners forum} they have in state firearm classifieds. Remember I've been looking for a 99 in .250/3000 for about 10 years. It's a little like hunting a trophy buck, seldom does it happen in one season.......<><Duce

[outdoorfan]

Looking into getting a new Lever Action. Need some opinions on which one as far as quality goes. Heard the new Remington made Marlins are not the same quality as the older ones. Calibers I am looking for are 454, 44 mag and 45-70.


Check out Rossi-Rifleman and look at Ranch Dog's posts on his Rossi .454. I think he's posted on this sight about that gun too.

I am in the process right now of getting my .357 Rossi all spiffed up. Quite a bit of work, but I should be happy with the results when I'm done. The only downside that I can see to Rossi is that there's no provision for a receiver-mounted scope, if that's what you want. You can mount a scout scope further down the barrel, though.

I should add, though, that you can get the Rossi set up with a good receiver sight, if you'd like to go that route. You'll have to get the receiver drilled and tapped (two screws), but that's no big deal.

[vmathias]

Look into Pedersoli. Quality is there.
New marlins? Lay down too much money and take it to a gunsmith first thing to clean up behind the factory. That's one of a gunsmiths jobs these days: wiping the a$$ of the American gun manufacturers. There is no such thing as American quality except in a few narrow slices of the industry. If you want true quality, it will be made in europe, or fifty years ago in America.

That being said, Marlin is now at the top of my list of overpriced junk you should avoid like the plague. Some of the stuff I have fixed for clients is such a complete faceplant, (12lb triggers, loose bolts, only functions when the screws are loose, wood/metal fit that makes an AK-47 look like a Shiloh sharps, barrels that look like they ran a tap down the bore, sights that are off center at 1:00) that its obvious that human eyes never even took a passing glance at it. Marlin is a thing of the past, so buy those that were made in the past, or don't even go there.

Goodsteel, that statement is right on the money. It is SAD where American quality (or lack of) has gone. I never thought I would think or say it but many other countries have us licked when it comes to building a great quality made firearm. The Japanese made Howas, Brownings etc put most of the American made products to shame. We need to quit worrying about mass producing **** and need to start getting back to quality over quantity. I have compared the Philippine made 1911's to many higher cost American 1911's Sad to say for the money they are damn close if not better than many productions made in the US. Very sad indeed. I will say this' Ruger still has their stuff together.

[WECSOG]

Some info I have run into making this comparison.

The Marlin Micro-Groove barrel is considered by some to be completely unsuitable for cast lead bullets. I am not completely sold on that though. I have an old Marlin 99M1 in 22LR its micro-grooved. The barrel still looks shiny and bright, no trace of leading even after years of heavy use. But thats only a .22. It does seem to me that attempting to also work up some black powder loads for a Marlin 45-70 might be problematic due to the reduced land height vs. powder fouling.

The Rossi 454 Casull can also fire 45 colt so the "average" diameter of the boolits are the same as say, .45acp. So you would'nt need a new batch of boolit molds. The rossi has a traditionally rifled barrel. Also 45 colt can be loaded with black powder. Anyways, just some useful information for you to ponder.

I am currently having a similar debate with myself, and I don't know who is winning yet.

[blikseme300]

Goodsteel, that statement is right on the money. It is SAD where American quality (or lack of) has gone. I never thought I would think or say it but many other countries have us licked when it comes to building a great quality made firearm. The Japanese made Howas, Brownings etc put most of the American made products to shame. We need to quit worrying about mass producing **** and need to start getting back to quality over quantity. I have compared the Philippine made 1911's to many higher cost American 1911's Sad to say for the money they are damn close if not better than many productions made in the US. Very sad indeed. I will say this' Ruger still has their stuff together.

Goodsteel put it into better words than I could have. It seems that the whole political correctness has rotted the fabric of American society so well that many people are now at the low level of apologizing and fixing the shortcomings of things that were supposed to have been right in the first place. No wonder there are such huge cost overruns with defence projects, civil engineering projects, any government projects, etc. "It's OK, we will fix them when done."

[Four Fingers of Death]

A lot of the problem is us as well, we now have internet and am able to access firearms from lots of different sources and at the best price. When the quality was up, we would go to the Mom and Pop gunstore in town and if they didn't have it, we would order it in and happily wait a few weeks for our new gun. When the price is the driving force, hand finishing is the first to suffer.

I look at it this way, I bought a Remington 700SPS (fondly referred to as the S**t Plastic Stock model in Australia, lol). It is a sound rifle, but the finish is pretty ordinary. Even with inflation, this rifle was cheaper than a Model 700, 15 - 20 years ago. I accept that I bought a cheap rifle and as such, I haven't paid for the final finishing and I am happy to do that myself.

I also bought it from the local gunstore and paid about $50 more than I would have by buying it interstate or in the Capital. To balance this off, if I have trouble, I know I will take it down town, 10 minutes away and as a regular customer, they will bend over backwards to get it right. I also did a pretty good deal buying ammo for the rifle(s) when I got them. Even though it was a bit dearer down the road, I didn't waste any time or have to battle any traffic while was in Sydney visiting my parents or diesel getting to the big gun mart and back.

I miss the old quality, but in reality, I couldn't afford Remingtons then.

[warboar_21]

Over the past few months I have bought a few Rossi lever actions. First Lever action was an 1892 in 45 Colt and the most recent purchase is the Rio Grande in 45-70. The 45 Colt was the floor model so people had worked the action over pretty well. I took it home and took it apart and cleaned it really well and oiled it up and worked the lever some more. I refinished the wood as I really don't care for the finish job on them. I simply removed old finish and stained it and added several coats of tru-oil. Now it looks much better.
The Rio Grande arrived almost two weeks ago and the only thing I have done so far is take it apart(easy) clean it, put it back together, mount a scope on it, and shoot it. Very accurate rifle with some of the hand loads I have loaded. I will agree with NVScouter that the recoil pad could be replaced but that is a minor deal.

Now when I was looking for a new 45-70 I found a nice Marlin GBL. I looked it over really well and the fit and finish were very nice. I left the shop to think about it and went back a week later and it was gone. They had another one behind the counter and when I started looking over it the fit and finish were sub par. He brought out the other one they had and it was just as bad. I couldn't see spending nearly $700.00 for that kind of quality. When I decided to buy another Rossi and was a bit worried about ordering it. When it arrived the guy at the gun store where I did the transfer asked me why I didn't buy a Marlin as they had two of them on the wall. I asked to see the standard and when he handed it to me and I shouldered it and looked down the sights, the front sight was canted to the left a little. I handed him back the rifle and told him that was the reason why I didn't. When we looked at the guide gun they had the action felt like it was full of sand and the wood to metal fit was pretty poor on the forearm to receiver.
I really wanted a Marlin but I just couldn't see myself spending top dollar for something that I was going to have to ship back to the factory to have repaired or have to work on it myself. And i'm sure as heck not going to spend what people are asking on sites like gunbroker for used rifles. If I want to spend $900.00 on a rifle I might as well buy myself a new BLR or other rifle.

[MBTcustom]

I don't think there is any real problems witht the new Marlins that a bit of elbow grease wouldn't fix.


Yes, and praise the Lord, because I'm a gunsmith and Marlins come through the shop all the time that need triggers to be less than 10-15 pounds, and people really want the wood to be closer to the metal than 1/8". Matter of fact, I think I'll send Marlin a thank you note, and encourage them to produce as many as they can before they close their doors, so I'll have plenty to work on in the future. LOL!


I haven't had any experience with the big Rossis and have only had one bad report about them and that was from the local gunshop that has a shelf full of new Marlins, so I took his criticism with a grain of salt. Before he retired, Ranch Dog had a few articles about the big Rossis and sang their praises, actually had a small forum site.
I have had only two Rossi's come through the shop since I opened. One needed a tang sight installed, the other has been beat to hell, and is in serious need of rebluing and a little oil. (personally, I think somebody has been shooting too much felix lube through it [smilie=s: LOL!)


I look at it this way, I bought a Remington 700SPS (fondly referred to as the S**t Plastic Stock model in Australia, lol). It is a sound rifle, but the finish is pretty ordinary. Even with inflation, this rifle was cheaper than a Model 700, 15 - 20 years ago. I accept that I bought a cheap rifle and as such, I haven't paid for the final finishing and I am happy to do that myself.
It's not just Australia, I think that is a universal term applied to the plastic shipping material they pack the barreled action in LOL! I can also tell you horror stories about the barrel quality on those rifles. If you have a lathe, check that before you spend any time polishing that turd. I had a guy come to the shop who had an SPS that wouldn't shoot less than 1.5" at 100 yards. He asked me to crown the barrel, and thread it for a compensator. After getting it into the lathe, the barrel was drilled with so much skew (the outside was straight, but the bore was literally doing the hula inside by an enormous amount) that I refused to work on it. I don't know what he was planning on screwing onto the end of his barrel, but that was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Jeff82]

+1 with Hanleyfan's comments. I bought a Marlin 1894C new in box, but sold as used (paid too much), and it was in terrible shape. I was OK with that, because I intended to have is re-worked by a gunsmith. $350 later, I had skinner sights, and all the internals polished and tuned, had a lighter hammer spring installed. I'm very happy with it now.

For me the comparison was between paying $1150 for a Winchester or buying the Marlin and customizing it. The Marlin design is superb, very easier to field strip and clear with a very strong breach. It's a shame that the build quality control is poor. But, if you're willing to make the investment, a good gunsmith can make it right.

[Four Fingers of Death]

before you spend any time polishing that turd.

By finishing it I meant working the bolt, etc to get rid of the gritty bits, which weren't all that bad over three rifles, a 270W, a 375H&H shoulder climber (lotza recoil, 7lb rifle, she jumps, haha) and a 308W Tactical. Brass was not available (in my home town gunshop) when I bought these so I ended up getting a good deal on a passle of factory ammo. I am still running this stuff out and running the rifles in, but accuracy seems ok for hunting. I haven't done much at all with the 308, still running the barrel in.

No sense trying to make a silk purse out of these sow's ears.

[searcher4851]

The Rossi is a great little lever action. The '92 action is my favorite lever action. Strong, and simple. The only drawback is scope mounting, which is becoming more of a consideration for my old eyes. Older Marlins are pretty hard to come by around me, and I'm not interested in the new Remlins. The Rossi's can use some action smothing, but after you do your first one, it's not that much af a challenge.

[pricedo]

Own 3 x Amadeo Rossi M92s (357, 44 Mag, 454 Casull).
I stripped them down, cleaned the cosmoline, dirt out of the receiver housings and magazine tubes with dechlorinated brake parts cleaner & deburred (remove rough spots and blemishes in the metal) & smoothed the carriers, chamber throats and other action components with a jewelers file and fine grained emery paper and knife stones & relubed with Remoil while I reassembled them.
These 92 clones need a little TLC at the start but they are diamonds in the rough.........all 3 are now accurate, dependable shooters.

Of the 2 x Remlin Guide Guns (1895G & 1895GS) I bought only 1 is currently operational. You could bury a dead cat in the gap between the tangs and the butt stock of the 1895GS and it locked up on me during a range session last week with moderate pressure factory ammo.
The 1895G has decent w/m fit but the head of the tang screw that holds the butt stock on split a coupla days ago while shooting Hornady 325 grain FTX factory ammo at the range and I replaced it with the tang bolt from the 1895GS which luckily was still in the truck.
The 1895G (with the stainless steel tang bolt) is giving me tight groups at 100 yds with the factory LEVERevolution 325 grain FTX ammo.
I'm going to drop the 1895GS off at the gunmith shop cause I can't budge the bolt with the lever removed and a long list of upcoming spring chores leaves me NO time for anything else.

The Rossis cleaned up to be really accurate, dependable & smooth rifles and the jury is still out on the Remlins.

Cerberus/Remington should hang its head in shame for what it did to the legendary Marlin company. They don't seem to give a damn what kind of LEVERabortions go out the door at the new Ilion, NY factory.

[pricedo]

Reworking a new rifle to make it work properly is so wrong on many levels. I looked at a number of Rossi rifles and could not get to part with my money for such poorly finished products. I will bide my time and buy oldies that work the way they were intended to.

The work I did to get my 3 x Rossi 92s smooth & accurate was basic stripping, cleaning, polishing & lubing.
I rubbed some Tru-Oil into the jungle wood furniture and now all 3 look good & shoot great.
The Rossi fit and finish and bluing were fine for all 3 of my M92s.
If you want real walnut, case hardened receivers, and all the fancy stuff go see Doug Turnbull at Turnbull Manufacturing........bring at least $5000 with you.

I replaced the crappy Remlin Guide Gun factory triggers with Wild West Guns "Happy Triggers" and replaced the stock ejectors with the WWG ejector and installed spring kits in my 2x Remlin 1895s.
The w/m fit on the 1895G was OK but on the 1895GS there was 1/8" gap between the butt stock wood and receiver ............unfortunately it had the smoothest action of the selections on the rack and a couple of 1895GSs I checked wouldn't even cycle..........no excuse for that and no way those defective guns should have ever left the Ilion factory........obviously they don't give a damn.

[Rockchucker]

Seems Rossi is King now days and Marlin is taking the back seat. My Rossi is as smooth as silk and the wood is nice too, however it does need some sight work done.

[Ramjet-SS]

What about the Henry 45-70?

I just got a Remlin and it shoots well seems to function fine thus far.

Thinking about adding a Henry though I have a 45 colt it is really nice smooth fit and finish superb.

[Ranch Dog]

Looking into getting a new Lever Action. Need some opinions on which one as far as quality goes. Heard the new Remington made Marlins are not the same quality as the older ones. Calibers I am looking for are 454, 44 mag and 45-70.

Actually, with the 454 Casull there is only one choice. I love my little 200-yard big game killing powerhouse!

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/R92_454Casull/images/R92_454_13.jpg

With the 44 Mag in a new rifle, only one choice, the Rossi R92. Owning both the Marlin and Rossi and being a cast bullet shooter my choice would be the Rossi. It is super nice to own a rifle cut to the SAAMI chamber spec! My Marlin 1894P remains one of my favorites, but to get it there made me a bit crazy.

The Rio Grande was my first dip into the Rossi products. After shooting my RG4570 for six months, I sold both my 1895G and 1895MR. It comes down to the same thing mentioned on the 44 Mag. It is nice to find a 45-70 that needs a .458 bullet and doesn't have a weird off spec throat that must be filled with lead. I really struggled with the RG at first because I couldn't quite figure out what it needed as I was trying to apply what I know about Marlins to it. I thought it must be really undercut until I compared the SAAMI spec to the chamber cast, it was exact. So, with that it only needs a tangent R1 ogive bullet for the caliber to fit. End of throat fitting story. I have shot bullets from 300 to 525-grains and all shoot great.

I will always be a Marlin guy but working with the Rossi's for two years now and being a cast bullet guy, I look back and look at how hard I worked to be a Marlin guy. It would have been easy to throw in the towel.

The good thing about the new Marlins are that they are being cut on chamber spec now but that is throwing old Marlin guys a bit. The bad thing is that Remington thought that they could throw everything into a CNC, spit out the rifle, and assemble it like they do their bolt guns. They didn't bet on the levergun needing a little precision slop to get the cartridge out of the tube, onto the carrier, and into the chamber.

There is a young man hunting on my place with a Remlin 336Y that nobody has been able to make right including myself and the factory. Youth rifles have a mission for the manufacturer, to ingrain product loyalty. Remlin has lost out with this rifle; this young fellow will never own another old or new.

[Ranch Dog]

The Rossi is a great little lever action. The '92 action is my favorite lever action. Strong, and simple. The only drawback is scope mounting, which is becoming more of a consideration for my old eyes. Older Marlins are pretty hard to come by around me, and I'm not interested in the new Remlins. The Rossi's can use some action smothing, but after you do your first one, it's not that much af a challenge.

I have scout scopes on my 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, and 480 Ruger. I've killed hogs from 5 yards out to 200 yards. After looking at the available scout scopes; including those from Burris and Leupold, I settled on the Weaver Classic K4 Scout and love it.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/Rossi/images/Scouts.jpg

That little bitty 357 Mag with my 175-grain bullet sure knocks a big hole through a hog! This is the entry hole. One reason I scope shoot is I spend a lot of full moon nights out hunting hogs without lights.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Hunting/2013/hog_03.jpg

It is also nice to shoot a 357 Mag that only needs a .357" bullet!

[vmathias]

Actually, with the 454 Casull there is only one choice. I love my little 200-yard big game killing powerhouse!

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/R92_454Casull/images/R92_454_13.jpg

With the 44 Mag in a new rifle, only one choice, the Rossi R92. Owning both the Marlin and Rossi and being a cast bullet shooter my choice would be the Rossi. It is super nice to own a rifle cut to the SAAMI chamber spec! My Marlin 1894P remains one of my favorites, but to get it there made me a bit crazy.

The Rio Grande was my first dip into the Rossi products. After shooting my RG4570 for six months, I sold both my 1895G and 1895MR. It comes down to the same thing mentioned on the 44 Mag. It is nice to find a 45-70 that needs a .458 bullet and doesn't have a weird off spec throat that must be filled with lead. I really struggled with the RG at first because I couldn't quite figure out what it needed as I was trying to apply what I know about Marlins to it. I thought it must be really undercut until I compared the SAAMI spec to the chamber cast, it was exact. So, with that it only needs a tangent R1 ogive bullet for the caliber to fit. End of throat fitting story. I have shot bullets from 300 to 525-grains and all shoot great.

I will always be a Marlin guy but working with the Rossi's for two years now and being a cast bullet guy, I look back and look at how hard I worked to be a Marlin guy. It would have been easy to throw in the towel.

The good thing about the new Marlins are that they are being cut on chamber spec now but that is throwing old Marlin guys a bit. The bad thing is that Remington thought that they could throw everything into a CNC, spit out the rifle, and assemble it like they do their bolt guns. They didn't bet on the levergun needing a little precision slop to get the cartridge out of the tube, onto the carrier, and into the chamber.

There is a young man hunting on my place with a Remlin 336Y that nobody has been able to make right including myself and the factory. Youth rifles have a mission for the manufacturer, to ingrain product loyalty. Remlin has lost out with this rifle; this young fellow will never own another old or new.

I have been leaning more towards Rossi but wanted more info as I am very funny about buying "Non American" made guns. When spending hundreds of dollars I always want to go "Made in the USA". Some of these American made manufacturers are making it very hard though. Remington should be ashamed of what they have been putting out. Reading some of these comments I think I will give the Rossi a try in either 45-70 or 454 Casull.

[pricedo]

I have been leaning more towards Rossi but wanted more info as I am very funny about buying "Non American" made guns. When spending hundreds of dollars I always want to go "Made in the USA". Some of these American made manufacturers are making it very hard though. Remington should be ashamed of what they have been putting out. Reading some of these comments I think I will give the Rossi a try in either 45-70 or 454 Casull.

I'd prefer to buy made in America guns and all things being equal that's what I'd buy.
But all things aren't equal ............no American deserves to be saddled with the junk guns coming out of that Ilion, NY factory.
Zero toleration for junk regardless of where it is made.

Do you really think a corporate parasite like Cerberus has earned any-ones loyalty?.........they've done more damage to the integrity of the American firearms manufacturing industry than Sarah Brady, Bill Clinton & Obama put together.

Rossi wins this decision hands down.

[vmathias]

I'd prefer to buy made in America guns and all things being equal that's what I'd buy.
But all things aren't equal ............no American deserves to be saddled with the junk guns coming out of that Ilion, NY factory.
Zero toleration for junk regardless of where it is made.

Do you really think a corporate parasite like Cerberus has earned any-ones loyalty?.........they've done more damage to the integrity of the American firearms manufacturing industry than Sarah Brady, Bill Clinton & Obama put together.

Rossi wins this decision hands down.

It sickens me that made in the USA does not Guarantee quality the way it used too. BUT there are still many that do a fantastic job of keeping that promise. Ruger, Smith and Wesson etc are still very high quality. For the prices Ruger can not be beat.

[MBTcustom]

It sickens me that made in the USA does not Guarantee quality the way it used too. BUT there are still many that do a fantastic job of keeping that promise. Ruger, Smith and Wesson etc are still very high quality..
I think you are being extremely generouse with that statement. I would agree wholeheartedly
If we were talking about handguns exclusively, but there is not a major American branded rifle that can hold a candle to the most common offerings from CZ or Pedersoli.
I have to say, I know how to sweeten up both the Rossi and the marlin, but the Rossi is closer to being right from the factory than the Marlin would be.
However, last time I was in Cabellas, I held a Pedersoli 45-70 that pretty much made either of them look like they were hacked out with a wood rasp. They only wanted $1700 for it (LOL!) and I was severely tempted to find out if she loves as good as she looks, but at the time, I just couldn't clear the extra money. Lord knows I wanted it bad though. The fit and finish was superb.

[vmathias]

I think you are being extremely generouse with that statement. I would agree wholeheartedly
If we were talking about handguns exclusively, but there is not a major American branded rifle that can hold a candle to the most common offerings from CZ or Pedersoli.
I have to say, I know how to sweeten up both the Rossi and the marlin, but the Rossi is closer to being right from the factory than the Marlin would be.
However, last time I was in Cabellas, I held a Pedersoli 45-70 that pretty much made either of them look like they were hacked out with a wood rasp. They only wanted $1700 for it (LOL!) and I was severely tempted to find out if she loves as good as she looks, but at the time, I just couldn't clear the extra money. Lord knows I wanted it bad though. The fit and finish was superb.

Yes Although I have never held a Pedersoli I have looked at the CZ's. CZ knows how to build quality firearms. I recently purchased a Ruger American basically for a low cost hiking, take anywhere gun. I was blown away with the accuracy of this rifle for the money. 3 shot clover leaf at 100 yards was easily covered up by the tip of my pinky. That was with factory Rem Core lokts. I have never shot a group that small with any rifle I have owned or shot including Howas, Savage, Remington and Winchester. Actions is like butter from the factory and cycles perfect without a hitch. It isnt the most beautiful gun but quality for the price is very good.

[MBTcustom]

Yeah? Shoot another five into that group and tell me what you've got. If it still shoots a small group, hold onto it like grim death, because you found a good one.

[vmathias]

Yeah? Shoot another five into that group and tell me what you've got. If it still shoots a small group, hold onto it like grim death, because you found a good one.

It has a sporter barrel so multiple shots will cause some fliers. It was designed for 2-3 shots max. Have you seen a lot of bad ones come through your shop? I am yet to read a negative review on that rifle.

[joec]

I think you are being extremely generouse with that statement. I would agree wholeheartedly
If we were talking about handguns exclusively, but there is not a major American branded rifle that can hold a candle to the most common offerings from CZ or Pedersoli.
I have to say, I know how to sweeten up both the Rossi and the marlin, but the Rossi is closer to being right from the factory than the Marlin would be.
However, last time I was in Cabellas, I held a Pedersoli 45-70 that pretty much made either of them look like they were hacked out with a wood rasp. They only wanted $1700 for it (LOL!) and I was severely tempted to find out if she loves as good as she looks, but at the time, I just couldn't clear the extra money. Lord knows I wanted it bad though. The fit and finish was superb.

I actually have a Liberty 12 ga double hammer/double trigger shot gun that is made in Turkey. It originally was imported by Liberty in PA later by another company that no longer exist and turns out it is now sold by CZ. I love this shot gun and can get the parts through CZ today though mine was made in 1984.

[pricedo]

I think you are being extremely generouse with that statement. I would agree wholeheartedly
If we were talking about handguns exclusively, but there is not a major American branded rifle that can hold a candle to the most common offerings from CZ or Pedersoli.
I have to say, I know how to sweeten up both the Rossi and the marlin, but the Rossi is closer to being right from the factory than the Marlin would be.
However, last time I was in Cabellas, I held a Pedersoli 45-70 that pretty much made either of them look like they were hacked out with a wood rasp. They only wanted $1700 for it (LOL!) and I was severely tempted to find out if she loves as good as she looks, but at the time, I just couldn't clear the extra money. Lord knows I wanted it bad though. The fit and finish was superb.
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss143/pricedo/Pedersoli_zps00efec17.jpg (http://s570.photobucket.com/user/pricedo/media/Pedersoli_zps00efec17.jpg.html)
They call it a Pedersoli 86/71 and it comes in 2 grades the fanciest of which is the Premier grade.
The gun comes in several calibers including the 444 Marlin & the 45-70 Gvt.
The fit & finish are better than anything I've seen except for perhaps a new Westley-Richards double rifle ($160,000) that I was allowed to hold in my hands for a few seconds at a gun show.
The Pedersoli 86/71 that caught my eye was the Premier grade in 45-70 Gvt. with the case hardened receiver and a 24" target grade barrel.
I was likewise impressed and willingly succumbed to its charms like a drunken sailor in a high class brothel.
The gun is slick as grease lightning and very accurate and is worth every cent that I paid for it.

[joec]

The Pedersoli I always lusted for was the Quigley Down Under model in 45-70 but couldn't afford it and settled for a Rossi Rio Grande in 45-70 instead.

[vmathias]

The Pedersoli I always lusted for was the Quigley Down Under model in 45-70 but couldn't afford it and settled for a Rossi Rio Grande in 45-70 instead.

What are your thoughts on that rifle??

[pricedo]

What are your thoughts on that rifle??

I have the 30-30 version of the Rio Grande which is more or less a Marlin 336 clone.
It like the Rossi 92s cleaned up to be a very smooth and accurate rifle.
NIB it was full of cosmoline, metal grindings and dirt & had a couple of burrs.......one on the lifter and the other in a bad place in the throat of the magazine tube where it meets the receiver. The mag tube itself was filthy.
After stripping, cleaning, deburring and a coupla shots of Remoil it's amazingly slick and accurate with the factory Hornady 160 grain LEVERevolution FTX ammo.
I topped it with a Bushnell Trophy 1.75-5x33mm scope.
The Rio Grande rifles like the Rossi 92s are "diamonds in the rough".

[Ranch Dog]

I've had the RG4570B since the day they showed up on Bud's online. The day I received the in stock notice, I bought it and was shooting it 5 days later. Here is what I think...

If Marlin had ever taken the time, back in the mid '60s, to figure out how to get the fat 45-70 Govt cartridge into and out of the 336, there would have never been a 444 Marlin. This is really something for me to admit as I am a 444Nut. Even my 444T has seen less use as I'd rather shoot the RG than it. My 1895s bit the dust, sold them as a result of the comparison of having the RG in hand.

The guts of the RGs lever, the portion of that is inside of the receiver, looks like a butter knife. It has to be able to move back and forth and to one side of the fat 45-70 Govt cartridge. You will also notice that the case rim, while at rest, sits up against the loading port. Simple fix to something that stumped the others.

Here is what I like about the RG compared to the 1895

Price
Rossi barrel vs the Marlin product. Hands down, every Rossi I own outshoots my Marlins in like cartridges. This includes the 357 Mag, 375 Win vs. the 38-55 Win (JES rebore of a RG3030B), 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 45-70 Govt.
Rossi chamber. This is related to the barrel. Rossi is cutting the chambers to the SAAMI spec and you don't need to figure out the dynamics of the huge Marlin throat to make a cast bullet work.
Weight. The difference between the RG and 1895 might only be a pound but in the field it makes a huge difference. I'm not talking about a 300 yard walk to a deer stand, I'm talking about a pre sunrise to post sunset day on the hunt. The difference is huge and cost my 1895MR it's stay on the ranch.


Honestly, once I experienced the RG4570, I questioned all the forum stuff I heard about the Rossi product and started buying them. I own every lever product they manufacture and love them. The bluing is deeper than Marlin or Remlin can deliver. The wood is plain and simple with little effort put into it but it lends itself to a TruOil finish without effort and is beautiful when finished.

The only downside I see to the Rossi is that all the parts must come through Braztech. That's easy and I have bought a lot of spares from them as I like a complete inventory of parts on hand. There is a list of parts that are considered "Restricted" and the only way to get them replaced on the rifle is to send it to Miami. This is stuff like saddle rings, bolts, levers. There are a number of outfits that are starting to support the rifles like The Smith Shop, MuleMan, and Skinner Sights. Of course, Steve's Gunz has been around for quite some time.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Good to know about the 45/70 Rossi. I will keep my weather eye out for one.

[TXGunNut]

Good to know about the 45/70 Rossi. I will keep my weather eye out for one.

Guess I will too. Good posts, Michael. I picked up several Marlins today to try to continue my 30-30 project but put them all back in the rack. I've got some Tru-Oil around here and I'm not afraid to use it.

[donhuff]

7000570006700077000870009700107001170012My son asked me to see if i could get his marlin 44 to stop jamming so much with cast loads. I looked it over and cleaned/polished it a little, but mostly adjusted my cast reloads to work with it. The 429421 did ok but a 265g Lee (cut down 310) had to be hauling *** or it shot all over the place at 100. I liked the lever gun so much that I had to go get one for myself. Based on what I had read on here and every where else, it had to be a Rossi. I am a "tinkerer" so getting inside the gun to fix little problems did not worry me at all. I went after a 357, but ended up buying a 44 in stainless. I took it apart before ever shooting i, and did all the spring trimming and slicking up that I had read about. Then I sat and worked the action 4-500 times. Tore it down for an inspection and cleaning. Everything looked good so back together and 500+ more times working the action. It is now soooooo smooth. I can work the action with my pinky, and don't have to do it fast either. When I took it to the range for the first time, I was shocked by the groups that I was getting. I had no previous experience with leverguns before this and did not expect to get those kind of groups. I sure did not get them with my son's Marlin. It really loved the lyman 429421 and 9.0g Unique. I tried a few other loads and they did not group as well, but they were near max loads of 800x and blue dot. I'm not sure if it was the loads or me flinching that caused the bigger groups, because I had shot it close to a couple hundred times by the time I got to the heavy hitters and my shoulder was getting sore. I have some more loaded up for the next range session, I'll have to shoot the hot stuff early on before I start flinching so bad.

I cant figure out how to move the pictures from The Rossi Rifleman forum to here, and I have already deleted them from my documents, so I'll just have to give you a link to their site. http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1165

What I'm getting at with all this is that there is no question which one I like better. And I'm still looking and getting funds together for that 357SS Rossi.

[winelover]

I'm in the market for a 357 / 38 levergun. Been perusing the levergun threads and this is my take on Rossi's.

Con:

1. Action needs attention
2. Front site too short
3. Stock is made from undesirable wood and needs to be refinished, at the least.
4. Least amount of scoping options.
5. Parts not readable accessible.

Pro

1. Cheap (no wonder)


Winelover

[Ranch Dog]

I'm in the market for a 357 / 38 levergun. Been perusing the levergun threads and this is my take on Rossi's.

Con:

1. Action needs attention
2. Front site too short
3. Stock is made from undesirable wood and needs to be refinished, at the least.
4. Least amount of scoping options.
5. Parts not readable accessible.

Pro

1. Cheap (no wonder)


Winelover

Nice, read it with the glass you want to wear. The Rossi is a great product and I hope Remlin is reading what they are delivering if they want to stay in the levergun business (which I think they do not).

[MBTcustom]

Nice, read it with the glass you want to wear. The Rossi is a great product and I hope Remlin is reading what they are delivering if they want to stay in the levergun business (which I think they do not).

That's a big 10-4.

[sparky45]

I am in love with my new Rossi 92 in 357/38. I did my usual cleaning before test firing and it's right on the mark. Fit and finish is very good. I bought this gun sight unseen in good faith and I wasn't disappointed. If you can't or won't put in the time or effort to review a Rossi in person, you are denying yourself a very good buy.

[Ranch Dog]

I have two R92s chambered in 357 Mag, one with a Skinner Barrel Peep and the other with the Weaver K4 Classic Scout. Both functioned flawlessly out of the box with my huge 175-grain, TLC359-175-RF. Can't say that for my Marlin 1894C which will eventually be put on the chopping block.

Here is a doe I killed last season with the 357 Mag Scout. 175-grain bullet right through her heart at 90-yards.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Hunting/2012/Mike_doe.jpg

I was going to turn the peep sighted R92 as my interest is more in the scouts but I thought with the $395 it cost me NIB out the door... why?

[Rockchucker]

Here's My Rossi in 45 Colt and my Ruger Convertible in 45 Colt also. Love both of these guns and both are smooth as silk.
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o779/ronnie_thompson2/IMG_0600_zpsbc11d363.jpg (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/ronnie_thompson2/media/IMG_0600_zpsbc11d363.jpg.html)

[winelover]

I'm in the market for a 357 / 38 levergun. Been perusing the levergun threads and this is my take on Rossi's.

Con:

1. Action needs attention
2. Front site too short
3. Stock is made from undesirable wood and needs to be refinished, at the least.
4. Least amount of scoping options.
5. Parts not readable accessible.

Pro

1. Cheap (no wonder)


Winelover

Came across a new 357 / 38 Rossi in a local gun shop and as a result I can add a few more to the con list:

6. Miniscule safety abomination
7. Ridiculous saddle ring that doesn't work for southpaws or right minded people
8. Foreign made (just to add insult to injury)

Winelover

[joec]

Came across a new 357 / 38 Rossi in a local gun shop and as a result I can add a few more to the con list:

6. Miniscule safety abomination
7. Ridiculous saddle ring that doesn't work for southpaws or right minded people
8. Foreign made (just to add insult to injury)

Winelover

Safety is an easy fix, http://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=4 takes about 2 seconds and a 1/16" punch to take it off. Most guns are made for right handed people as for foreign made most things in America are.

[sparky45]

Gee, I suppose your Wine (whine) only comes from California.:kidding: Have you even owned/tried one?

[winelover]

Gee, I suppose your Wine (whine) only comes from California.:kidding: Have you even owned/tried one?

Just don't whine when your job goes to some third world country.

Winelover

[Ed in North Texas]

I'll admit I don't own a Rossi yet. I'm not opposed to owning one, and the Rossi may well be my next lever purchase (if I don't get the yen for another 99). I have had no problems with my Marlins, but my newest Marlin is a first year of production 1895, most are 50s to late 60s rifles.

[pricedo]

Rossi design work to get the 45-70 cartridge to work in the 336 and that double threaded magazine configuration of the 92/454 that not only made the magazine MUCH stronger but facilitated tube port loading/unloading of ammo was nothing short of brilliant.

Despite whatever criticisms we can legitimately level at Rossi for lack of due diligence & quality control somebody in their design department has some grey matter between their ears.

[Ranch Dog]

.
.that double threaded magazine configuration of the 92/454 that not only made the magazine MUCH stronger but facilitated tube port loading/unloading of ammo was nothing short of brilliant.

Yes, you are absolutely right! Same configuration in the 480 Ruger. Both if the rifles are outstanding.

Oh, from the huge amount of time I spend in the field, I really appreciate both the Marlin & Rossi "crossbolt" and R92's "pigtail" safety. I use them religiously.

Sorry, I don't listen to the "buy American" mantra. It is political/corporate buzz words licensed by the very industries that have been selling this country out for the last 50 years. This country went past the critical point a decade and a half ago.

[Brad Phillips]

I have a .44-40 Puma that has been around about twenty years. I get the itch to buy and sell sometimes and the Puma is a keeper.

[colt1960]

I was in the spot in the beginning of 2012 wanting a lever-action 45-70 rifle. I heard the bad things about the marlins and checked out the rossi's. I felt the wood on the ones I checked out looked cheep. I just couldnt get past the look of them. I ended up buying a new remlin GBL 1895 and I got lucky and found one I liked the look and feel of. I couldnt be more happy with and glad I bought it. Good ones are still being made, you just have to look till you find it. Rick!

[MBTcustom]

I was in the spot in the beginning of 2012 wanting a lever-action 45-70 rifle. I heard the bad things about the marlins and checked out the rossi's. I felt the wood on the ones I checked out looked cheep. I just couldnt get past the look of them. I ended up buying a new remlin GBL 1895 and I got lucky and found one I liked the look and feel of. I couldnt be more happy with and glad I bought it. Good ones are still being made, you just have to look till you find it. Rick!

That's it exactly.
Look, the reason we are having this discussion is because Americans got away from having just one rifle. We each want to have an assortment of rifles pistols and shotguns, but the amount of money we have to spend on these juicy nuggets has not risen in the last 50 years, and has actually gone down. What this means for the gun industry, is that whoever can deliver something that will go "bang" the cheapest, gets to stay in business.
So, they crank those babies out and put only enough quality in them to fool the average customer buying their product. After all, if it doesn't shoot very well, that will give them an excuse to buy another one, and so the cycle continues.

I wondered at one time, if I sold every gun I owned, how much money would I have? and if I spent all that money on one rifle, what would it be? Well, it became very obvious that I would be looking for a custom builder to sculpt a rifle per my specifications.
I ended up deciding to have my cake and eat it too, by becoming the guy that sculpts the guns LOL!
Still, the more I become immersed in extremely fine rifles and handguns, the more I tend to want something special. Something that will be perfect. Something that fits only me. Something that I will never get tired of, or want to upgrade.
I looked very hard at the pedersoli lever guns. I looked very hard at the bighorn armory 50's (seriously, you gotta see those babies!) I did buy a 45/70 guide gun, and I worked it over with a fine tooth comb. I believe I need to screw on a longer barrel, and extend the magazine tube, as well as do a decent bluing job on it, but for what it is, I like it pretty well. My only beef is that I have to use really short nosed boolits in order to get them to engage the rifling, or even come close to it. Most 405 grain designs will not feed or eject if they are long enough to fit the chamber. Of course, if I rebarrel it, then I have an opportunity to correct that problem once and for all.
When I get done polishing, sanding, grinding, threading, chambering, turning, buffing and praying, will it be my ultimate rifle? Maybe, maybe not. Theres only one way to find out, and it's a rather expensive and time consuming ordeal when compared to just buying a good quality rifle that was designed and made correctly.
Oh well, I'd be bored if I wasn't tinkering.

[sparky45]

Can't see how that would effect me Winer, for 2 reasons.
1 - I practiced Anesthesia for a living; and
B - I'm retired :-?

P.S. I also drive a Lexus. Is that 3rd world?:?


Just don't whine when your job goes to some third world country.

Winelover

[Ranch Dog]

Good points goodsteel. I think there are as many different reasons to buy as there are individuals doing the buying. Me, all I want is a rifle that I can drag through the South Texas brush. I need it to be accurate to 200-yards and stand up to the punishment that I deliver. My Rossi and Marlin rifles have done that. I killed 68 big game animals with the Rossi rifles last year, most of them with the R92, they have proven to me that they are worth the investment.

I considered a Pedersoli Boar Buster, the 444 Marlin, last year so I told my wife that I was going to order one. She looked, shrugged her shoulders and said that trophy rifle isn't ever going to get to go hunting. She was right, I would never probably take it out so I dropped the idea. Honestly, since I had my 444T refurbished, I don't want to take it out for a shredding in the torn brush and haven't.

Oh, I forgot to add my reply to the saddle ring comment, I LOVE THEM. You need to know how they are used and buy the correct sling for them. Thank you Junior Doughty (http://www.castbullet.com/srsling.htm) for covering both of those qualifiers.

winelover, you drink only US wines?

[winelover]

winelover, you drink only US wines?

I guess my avatar answers that question. I can see how the saddle ring works for a right hander, but I'm a lefty and it gets in my way!

Winelover

[Newtire]

Some info I have run into making this comparison.

The Marlin Micro-Groove barrel is considered by some to be completely unsuitable for cast lead bullets. I am not completely sold on that though. I have an old Marlin 99M1 in 22LR its micro-grooved. The barrel still looks shiny and bright, no trace of leading even after years of heavy use. But thats only a .22. It does seem to me that attempting to also work up some black powder loads for a Marlin 45-70 might be problematic due to the reduced land height vs. powder fouling.

The Rossi 454 Casull can also fire 45 colt so the "average" diameter of the boolits are the same as say, .45acp. So you would'nt need a new batch of boolit molds. The rossi has a traditionally rifled barrel. Also 45 colt can be loaded with black powder. Anyways, just some useful information for you to ponder.

I am currently having a similar debate with myself, and I don't know who is winning yet.

Wecsog, I think that topic about micro-grooves not shooting cast has been all but beat to death on here but I'll tell you that it's alot of hooey. I just finished putting a Williams FP on mine and took it to the range and did alright today. My son & I have shot hundreds (going on thousands more like) of Lee 200 gr. flat points and a variety of pistol boolits-you name it. They all shoot real good. Only time I got leading was with some store bought undersized "silver-bullets". I had a ballard rifled Marlin in 35 Remington that I'd put my micro-groove up against any day. Never saw a bit of difference.

[truckjohn]

Interesting how the talk has been going.... Sounds like the Pre vs Post 64 Winchester talk... and how everybody forgets that the post 64's would outshoot pre-64's all day long...

I get the issues with Marlin and the new ownership.... My prediction is that Rem will sort out the issues through some design revisions specifically aimed at making them CNC friendly - as those Marlins were apparently hand fitted to make them work... Once this is sorted out, we will once again have a wonderful rifle.... Probably better than Marlin has been giving us for the last 25 years....

Hand fitting is a 2-edged sword in my experience.... Most times, it makes for opportunities to mess things up... My mid '90's 336CS was rough as a cob inside till I worked it over a bit... Trigger was heavy, mushy, and gritty.... Didn't want to load right - had to replace a bunch of parts including the load gate.... Same thing for working the lever - hitching everywhere... Not to mention barrels with tons of tight spots and lumps all up and down.... Pinnacle of quality you say?

Long story short - I don't believe Marlins were the picture of perfection up till 1 day before they were sold to Remington.... My own experience shows this is just not the case...

Thanks

[Jeff82]

That's it exactly.
Look, the reason we are having this discussion is because Americans got away from having just one rifle. We each want to have an assortment of rifles pistols and shotguns, but the amount of money we have to spend on these juicy nuggets has not risen in the last 50 years, and has actually gone down. What this means for the gun industry, is that whoever can deliver something that will go "bang" the cheapest, gets to stay in business.
So, they crank those babies out and put only enough quality in them to fool the average customer buying their product. After all, if it doesn't shoot very well, that will give them an excuse to buy another one, and so the cycle continues.

.

Excellent observation Goodsteel.

I decided to standardize on the 357 cartridge and work with one pistol (Ruger Blackhawk), one carbine (Marlin 1894C) and one snubnose revolver (Ruger SP-101) for EDC. I decided to put money into these three weapons to fine tune them to my needs. The Marlin, took a lot of work to make it into a fine shooting gun (see my previous post), the Blackhawk only needed a good set of grips, and the SP-101 needed nothing.

I believe that limiting myself in this way has the added benefit of improving my shooting and focusing myself on perfecting the bullet and cartridge.

They always say to beware of the one gun man.

[Four Fingers of Death]

A lot less cleaning to do too.

[pricedo]

Looking into getting a new Lever Action. Need some opinions on which one as far as quality goes. Heard the new Remington made Marlins are not the same quality as the older ones. Calibers I am looking for are 454, 44 mag and 45-70.

Just dumped $1400 + change on a Winchester (Miroku) model 94 Trails End takedown levergun in 450 Marlin.
That is one slick as eel slime cycling shootin iron right outta the box.
A powerhouse in a 6 pound 12 ounce package with the recoil attenuated by a very effective muzzle break.
Miroku of Japan is the same company that makes the Browning BLR.

[bigbear]

I have scout scopes on my 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, and 480 Ruger. I've killed hogs from 5 yards out to 200 yards. After looking at the available scout scopes; including those from Burris and Leupold, I settled on the Weaver Classic K4 Scout and love it.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/Rossi/images/Scouts.jpg

That little bitty 357 Mag with my 175-grain bullet sure knocks a big hole through a hog! This is the entry hole. One reason I scope shoot is I spend a lot of full moon nights out hunting hogs without lights.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Hunting/2013/hog_03.jpg

It is also nice to shoot a 357 Mag that only needs a .357" bullet!

I have a Browning 92 in 44mag I would like to put a little scope on, what mount is that you have? I'm wondering whether it could be adapted to my Browning?

[jh45gun]

Don't ya Just love internet folks that bash guns with out owning them. (sarcasm) The only fault I could find with my Ranch Hand is the short front sight and I can fix that problem. It had a faulty guide rail but that is no big issue it got replaced and fixed by Rossi and they paid for the shipping both ways and the guns have a life time warranty. I would buy an other if I was looking for an other lever gun. That said I probably will not because I have a Winchester 30/30 a PRE Remington Marlin Guide gun 45/70 that was made and has the Marlin JM mark and My my Ranch Hand which fills a niche I had so I am covered.

[JJ Mc FRAG]

That's it exactly.
Look, the reason we are having this discussion is because Americans got away from having just one rifle. We each want to have an assortment of rifles pistols and shotguns, but the amount of money we have to spend on these juicy nuggets has not risen in the last 50 years, and has actually gone down. What this means for the gun industry, is that whoever can deliver something that will go "bang" the cheapest, gets to stay in business.
So, they crank those babies out and put only enough quality in them to fool the average customer buying their product. After all, if it doesn't shoot very well, that will give them an excuse to buy another one, and so the cycle continues.

I wondered at one time, if I sold every gun I owned, how much money would I have? and if I spent all that money on one rifle, what would it be? Well, it became very obvious that I would be looking for a custom builder to sculpt a rifle per my specifications.
I ended up deciding to have my cake and eat it too, by becoming the guy that sculpts the guns LOL!
Still, the more I become immersed in extremely fine rifles and handguns, the more I tend to want something special. Something that will be perfect. Something that fits only me. Something that I will never get tired of, or want to upgrade.
I looked very hard at the pedersoli lever guns. I looked very hard at the bighorn armory 50's (seriously, you gotta see those babies!) I did buy a 45/70 guide gun, and I worked it over with a fine tooth comb. I believe I need to screw on a longer barrel, and extend the magazine tube, as well as do a decent bluing job on it, but for what it is, I like it pretty well. My only beef is that I have to use really short nosed boolits in order to get them to engage the rifling, or even come close to it. Most 405 grain designs will not feed or eject if they are long enough to fit the chamber. Of course, if I rebarrel it, then I have an opportunity to correct that problem once and for all.
When I get done polishing, sanding, grinding, threading, chambering, turning, buffing and praying, will it be my ultimate rifle? Maybe, maybe not. Theres only one way to find out, and it's a rather expensive and time consuming ordeal when compared to just buying a good quality rifle that was designed and made correctly.
Oh well, I'd be bored if I wasn't tinkering.

Very well put Sir!
You said it all fer me, including the tinkerin' part.
Yes, the Big Horn rifles are very nice and Doug Turnbull's are excellent as well.
Most of us folks can only dream of having a truely well crafted rifle, especially
these days, but it need not be the end of the world.

Folks that can learn good ole smithing methods can still take an off the shelf
rifle and fix 'er up into a nice, functional unit.

Careful selection and proper work can yield nice results.

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Yep, I like Rossi's
Happy Tinkerin' Y'all
:drinks:

[jlchucker]

Wecsog, I think that topic about micro-grooves not shooting cast has been all but beat to death on here but I'll tell you that it's alot of hooey. I just finished putting a Williams FP on mine and took it to the range and did alright today. My son & I have shot hundreds (going on thousands more like) of Lee 200 gr. flat points and a variety of pistol boolits-you name it. They all shoot real good. Only time I got leading was with some store bought undersized "silver-bullets". I had a ballard rifled Marlin in 35 Remington that I'd put my micro-groove up against any day. Never saw a bit of difference.

I've got to agree. When I first started casting, among my earlier attempts were for a couple of Marlins (microgroove) in 35 Remington. Back then, I just looked up loads in an old Lyman manual, bought a Lyman 358315 mold, cast up some boolits, loaded up some ammo and went to the range--and shot some 50 yard groups that were as good as my condom-bullet loads. I'd never heard of microgroove issues until some years later. I'm a bit more picky with my boolits these days, but the point is, you can shoot boolits through microgroove barrels with good success. You just may have to work up a load with a little bit more care than I started off with.

[robertbank]

I think you are being extremely generouse with that statement. I would agree wholeheartedly
If we were talking about handguns exclusively, but there is not a major American branded rifle that can hold a candle to the most common offerings from CZ or Pedersoli.
I have to say, I know how to sweeten up both the Rossi and the marlin, but the Rossi is closer to being right from the factory than the Marlin would be.
However, last time I was in Cabellas, I held a Pedersoli 45-70 that pretty much made either of them look like they were hacked out with a wood rasp. They only wanted $1700 for it (LOL!) and I was severely tempted to find out if she loves as good as she looks, but at the time, I just couldn't clear the extra money. Lord knows I wanted it bad though. The fit and finish was superb.

Well maybe but even in handguns we aren't getting what we used to out of S&W and Ruger. MY GP-100 had undersized chambers that had to be reamed out if the gun was to ever be an accurate shooter. 'Smith has peddled some 686 guns up here that look like they were factory seconds at best.

On the rifle side a friend just bought a Uberti '73 and my god it is a thing of beauty. You pay for it but guns aren't disposables and his kids will have a gun to shoot when he is done with it.

Take Care

Bob

[snaketail]

My first lever gun is a Rossi 20" .454. It was a tad rough in the beginning, but the more I shot it the better it got (and I got too). After 4 months I can say it is a fine firearm that shooter better them me and has potential to be a fun for several years to come.
73338

[Four Fingers of Death]

My first lever gun is a Rossi 20" .454. It was a tad rough in the beginning, but the more I shot it the better it got (and I got too). After 4 months I can say it is a fine firearm that shooter better them me and has potential to be a fun for several years to come.
73338

Nice little rifle with serious Mumbo! I'd be watching where I put my thumb with that tang sight and the serious recoil that little sucker produces! haha!

[snaketail]

Thanks - Tired it with a full-house .454 load and the sight was not a problem. I shoot Lever Action Silhouette with a fast .45 Colt boolit, a heavy load isn't necessary.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks - Tired it with a full-house .454 load and the sight was not a problem. I shoot Lever Action Silhouette with a fast .45 Colt boolit, a heavy load isn't necessary.
I meant if you put your thumb around the back of the sight inadvertently and arced up a full house 454, you'd probably get a bite, you definitely would with big hands like mine.

Is that sight a Marbles or a Lyman? I have a SS 44Mag carbine and have misplaced the riser for the rear sight and don't like the front sight. I am thinking of upgrading them. I will do some load development first and see if it is accurate enough to warrant having money spent on it first. I haven't used it much, just thrown together TrailBoss cowboy loads in 44Special cases, which it didn't like particularly.

[9w1911]

a lot of work has gone into my 1894c remlin, its mine for life now I could never sell it do to the work it has had ie..the problems it has. Still needs a little tweak for perfection I don't even consider it a marlin anymore do to the extensive work done to it. I would highly suggest not purchasing a new marlin. I love lever actions but will most likely buy Rossi next time. Henry's are nice but some are too flashy and I love umbertis I do also like that take down version I think from wild west guns in ak

[prs]

Nice little rifle with serious Mumbo! I'd be watching where I put my thumb with that tang sight and the serious recoil that little sucker produces! haha!

I use tangs as well as barrel mounted leaf sights on lever rifles. My thumb is always to the side of the neck of the stock. That way when I rack in the next round my thumb need not move. Lots quicker, less tendency to cant the rifle during the cycling of the rounds so your eyes can stay focused on the front sight and game/target. Try it, you'll like it.

prs

[TXGunNut]

I tried very hard to buy a Remlin last weekend, couldn't do it. Couldn't find a Rossi other than one of those lever-action pistol abortions but probably would have bought it if I could have. I want very much to prove that Remlin is building a good rifle but I can't even get one off the rack and into my car.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That's strange, the local gunshop here always has a half dozen or so new Marlins on the shelf at any one time. I looked the other day and he had a 357 that had just been sold and various 30/30s.

[robertbank]

Used ones come up quite regularly on our major gun forum up here. Locally the town gun shop carries mostly Marlins in 45-70. Rifles are popular among the outfitters and camping crowd. Bears can be a nuisance around here.

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

These Marlins are mostly new. Maybe the Aussie imported bought a swag to get a better deal.

[robertbank]

These Marlins are mostly new. Maybe the Aussie imported bought a swag to get a better deal.

That would be my guess. Given Canada is joined at the hip with the US shipping would be substantially less as would be shipping times. When times are normal and they aren't now, I suspect inventories can be kept lower when you are closer to the source. With all the ITAR rules these days covering the shipment of small arms across international borders I am surprised anyone bothers but they do and good on those that do.

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

There are a lot of dealers (equivalent of your FFL guys) that import firearms and parts that are giving it away as it is just too difficult, which is a shame.

[robertbank]

There are a lot of dealers (equivalent of your FFL guys) that import firearms and parts that are giving it away as it is just too difficult, which is a shame.

We are finding this to be the case in some areas of Canada as well. Some of the US export laws are just plain dumb and only hurt US manufacturers and the jobs that go with them. Unfortunately, our Gov't is to blame as well because in some instances Canada could apply for exemptions to some of the rules under the N.A. Free Trade Agreement - unfortunately we have our share of anti-gun types as well.

Take Care

Bob

[BCRider]

Here's a little mini review for you all about the current Rossis. A friend of mine just got one out of a place back east up here in Canada with the goal being to use it for low key cowboy action shooting. I also use a Rossi 92 for my own CAS shooting. As I'd slicked mine up already using a mix of the online tutorials and some hints from our local cowboy action specialty gunsmith we tucked into her gun with gusto and did the whole shebang at once.

Exterior finish was a little lackluster compared to my four year older model 92. The surfaces were not as finely polished prior to blueing. Mine being a true mirror like finish while the new one had some slight sanding "grain" to the surfaces. Wood fit was similarly a trifle less precise. Not overly bad for the price point but still not as neatly done as my 4 year older model. Wood quality for grain and the finish was also not as nice. My older one doesn't have anything special on it for grain but her new rifle wood is REALLY boring.

We're going to have a go over the winter at fitting the stocks a little more neatly as the wood seems to all be there but the stocks are simply not indexed perfectly. At the same time we'll look at stripping off the dull and rather rough looking finish and give it a multi coat tung oil finish with staining if needed.

Inside the action the workmanship is still very much Rossi and done to the price point. Various spots came complete with free burrs on edges and the action can definetly benefit from some elbow grease with a slip stone to remove these burrs. On the other hand the machined surfaces were nicely done and much smoother than my older version. So once the burrs were stoned off there really wasn't a lot more to do. We installed a spring kit in the rifle that replaces the OEM mainspring, ejector spring, trigger return spring and lever latch spring.

Once the work was done and the rifle re-assembled it was as slick as my older one. Perhaps even slicker.

Sorry but I can't comment on relative accuracy since we only shot the new gun at typical cowboy action distances. Which is hardly a fair test of anything for rifle accuracy.

All in all I'm certainly happier that I got the older version with the nicer exterior finish and wood selection. But in terms of functionality I can't say that Rossi has cut any corners on this new offering. If anything they are doing a slightly better job now than before in that regard. It's just a shame that the exterior finish is suffering to keep the cost in line.

[NVScouter]

Anybody tried the new Mossbergs compared to the Marlin or Rossi? Only one I have seen is the laughable tactical lever gun with A4 style stock. I tried to look past the tacticool garbage at the action. I've decieded I need a 38-55 lever gun and with my Rossi 45-70 at Taurus for repair still started looking back at the Marlins.

Either one will probobly go to JES for a rebore so the microgroove doesnt matter.

[warboar_21]

I don't know anyone who owns a Mossberg lever action so I can't say first hand. The only experience I have with them is either at gun shows or Shot Show. They seem to be built pretty well. I saw a Marlin 336 at Walmart the other day. It was priced in the mid $300s here in Vegas. I didn't get to hold it as it was after hours and they didn't have sales staff at the gun counter. From what I could see in the display case it looked like it had good wood to metal fit. Didn't care much for the matte finish on it though. It just seems out of place on a lever action for some reason. I am sure it would work great in areas where weather is a factor though.

[Maximumbob54]

I just bought a new Rossi M92 .44 magnum last year and I'm about to get a new 336Y pretty soon. I can at least say that the M92 has been a great rifle for the price paid. It was much less than anything else similar and while the over all fit and finish isn't top notch neither was the price tag. It feeds all the different ammo I've tried from a round nose flat point cast to a Speer SWC and off hand at fifty yards I can make a fist size group without much effort. The sights the gun came with are better than my Marlin 30A by far and I think anything better would have increased the price. By that same logic I bet they could have put a functional but cheaper stamped sheet metal sight on and lowered the cost but went the higher route instead. Yes, the wood isn't great in looks and the fit isn't perfect but the wood cleans up well and the minor fitting imperfection is easy to overlook since it's cosmetic and doesn't stop function at all. I for one and glad to be able to buy such a decent quality rifle for the price paid and it even has lifetime coverage if needed.

I can only hope I'm soon saying similar about the new "Marlin" and not just the latest to post complaints.

[NVScouter]

Well I'm scratching off Rossi/Taurus/Braztech for future buys.

I got my Rio Grande back last night. It left for some pretty serious manufacturer's defaults and a major safety issue.

The magazine tube is crooked, forearm drilled crooked, old style plastic follower to be replaced, most screw heads damaged from factory. Also when they clearance the barrel at the center band they cut almost all the way through the barrel. I found this when I first broke it down there is only .0865" wall thickness at that point where the pressure curve is usually the greatest!

It came back last night unrepaired with a 1.5X1.5 piece of paper the only documentation. It was received, test fired and shipped. The Repaired By section blank. I took it a part and every fault it was sent back for is still there plus plenty of marks from handling and such all over.

I now own a $450 paperweight. I'm going to involve the shop I bought it from, and demand Braztech to give me a letter saying that wall thickness meets engineering specs. I will not fire this as is I'm very glad I used only light trapdoor loads and it didn't blow out the bottom of the barrel.