Keith boolits

[292]

My new mould came today, RCBS 250-KT, thank you Fluxed. I didn't have much time to cast, my night to cook. Had a lot of rejects but I did cast enough to load and shoot some this weekend. This my first non Lee mould, now I know what all the talk about mould temp is about. Aluminum heats much quicker than steel. I had some fill out issues but I think casting technique was the problem, by the time I quit I had the rejects ratio down to almost none.

6893268931

[429421Cowboy]

I hunt with boolits dropped out of that mold, even though it would make ol' Elmer roll in his grave! 2400 seems like a fitting powder as well, i was reading "Hell, I was There" again the other day, some of his first loads of 2400 in Special cases are higher than my maxes for Mag brass, balloon head or not!

[292]

even though it would make ol' Elmer roll in his grave

Why is that?

[429421Cowboy]

Elmer seemed to be quite picky in his later writings about what were and were not his designs, size of driving band, placement of crimp grove and a deep, square lube groove, everything else was a ripoff to him and NOT a true Keith boolit.

[MtGun44]

RCBS 44 250 K is a design which is VERY close to Elmer's design. The only difference
really is that the crimp groove is symmetrical instead of 90 deg on the front and 45
deg on the back the RCBS design has 45 deg front and back. Other than that, it is
a dead ringer for a Keith design.

Bill

[Fluxed]

Glad to hear its working for you.

[GLL]

The 44-250-KT was always a favorite of mine and cast beautifully with WW + 2% tin !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/0063A6EFA35740F/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/2CB4022C53F7A88/orig.jpg

Another IDEAL 429421
http://www.fototime.com/98111A583CB6C02/orig.jpg

And another IDEAL
http://www.fototime.com/672AC772D273279/orig.jpg

A lot of variation in those 429421s and as Bill indicated the RCBS 44-250-K is very close to some of them !

[GLynn41]

I did not realize that the Lyman had those varations

[GLL]

I did not realize that the Lyman had those variations

And many, many more !

The IDEAL/LYMAN 454424 is much worse though !

http://www.fototime.com/CDF186C1CB890DA/orig.jpg

Jerry

[292]

All of this is very interesting, where can I learn more? You might be able to tell by my user name but the Model 29 is what got me into casting.

[429421Cowboy]

If you are interested in Keith in general, this site makes for great reading, and alot of it pertains to the introduction of the Model 29 and .44 Magnum. http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/ Plenty of articles by him on all sorts of guns!

The "Keith on Handgun Bullets" article details his progression to the 429421 and what he considered the bullet (boolit) to be and is an interesting read on handgun philsophy in general.

[GLL]

A couple more side-by-side comparisons.

The H&G #503 (BC#1103) is the bullet in Keith’s article that 429421Cowboy linked.

Any one of these Keith-style bullets is a good choice but I still feel 292's choice of an RCBS 44-250-KT in the original post is a great selection. Unfortunately it is no longer available.

http://www.fototime.com/68B4E7F5228FB76/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/926CCD023699C62/orig.jpg

Here is a great photo by Whistler of the MP 432-256 clone of the H&G #503
http://www.fototime.com/594175D3B830879/orig.jpg

Jerry

[lightman]

I really like those RCBS molds! I have about a dozen, and they all cast good boolits. Lightman

[MtGun44]

+1 on RCBS are great molds. It looks like the 44-250-KT is a bit different than my
44-250-K. I had thought that it was just a designation change, but apparently not
completely true, slight design shift.

Bill

[292]

If you are interested in Keith in general, this site makes for great reading, and alot of it pertains to the introduction of the Model 29 and .44 Magnum. http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/ Plenty of articles by him on all sorts of guns!

The "Keith on Handgun Bullets" article details his progression to the 429421 and what he considered the bullet (boolit) to be and is an interesting read on handgun philsophy in general.

Thank you very good, I'll read them all.

[Lloyd Smale]

that and the 320 swc lyman molds were the first two molds i ever owned.

[44man]

One of the reasons I quit shooting any SWC. I bought the original Lyman 429421 mold when it first came out. I had dies and the mold even before my BH arrived in 1956. Had to buy factory loads for brass, none could be bought yet.
The boolit shot great with 2400.
I followed Keith and he was an inspiration. I was shooting and hitting at 400 to over 500 yards back then.
Things were sold off to buy other and I have owned 9 or 10 .44's since, never enough money to keep anything.
Then I tried other Keith style boolits of all kinds and none matched the original, some just would be a waste of powder. That extends to all the calibers I shoot so the SWC just went away for me.
Another great boolit that I shot in around 53 or so was the 358156 HP, Thompson if I remember. I had a S&W 27, 8-3/8" ribbed barrel and could hit 2" targets at 100 yards from prone. I had my first pistol scope on it, Bushnell I think, fine little scope.
I don't think you can fool with GG width and drive band width, some of the GG's are crazy. They should have left a great boolit alone.
Keith was right.
I still have an RCBS SWC for the .44 but it sure looks tiny compared to what I now shoot! :popcorn:

[GLL]

Bill:

The 44-250-KT became the 44-250SWC in the catalog as # 82044 but was eventually for some reason discontinued. :(
The box was labeled "Keith Type" !
For a short time RCBS even made them with rounded lube grooves.

The 44-250-K was cataloged at the same time (as #82080) and is currently still available.
I am not sure if Keith would have liked the 44-250-KT but it sure fit his description of the ideal 44 bullet ! :) I have always enjoyed casting with RCBS iron molds and am especially fond of the 44-250-KT.
They would sell a ton of their molds if they were 4-cavity !

Jerry

Here is a very old photo I have posted several times but it seems to be appropriate here for reference:
http://www.fototime.com/B148BAD8A84EB2B/medium800.jpg

[L to R : Ballisti-Cast #1103, NEI #256, RCBS .44-250K, LYMAN .429-421. RCBS .44-250KT. Lyman .429-336]

[MtGun44]

the 44-250-K has worked very well for me, three equal bands, square bottomed
lube groove, only the crimp groove is a bit different. Mine has the front edge angled
too, more like equal angles than the normal crimp groove.

Bill