Lee soup can 113gr.

[Joel Chavez]

Does anyone here load this boolit using Unique in a 30/30? I'm using it in a 30/30 Handi Rifle. What is your recipe with Unique and the "soup can"? I shot it this past weekend, but I wasn't impressed. It shot 1.5" groups at 25yds. I think though, it might be sized to big. They are dropping from the mould at about .312 with ww lead. I only had a .311 sizer, but I think a smaller is in order. What are your thoughts? I'm loading it with 8.5gr of Unique, 2.350" oal. Something I did notice when I loaded some with 8.0gr of Unique, the primers were round and didn't try to move out of the primer pocket(no pressure signs), but with 8.5gr of the same powder they moved out of the pocket some. The first time I shot factor ammo (Fed. shok 150gr) they did the same thing(primers moving out of pocket). Is this normal with rifle stuff. I've reloaded thousands and thousands of pistol rounds with cast and jacket boolits and never seen this before. :-? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Later.:castmine:

[Ricochet]

In what cartridge?

[Adam10mm]

In what cartridge?

Original post states:

I'm using it in a 30/30 Handi Rifle.

[drinks]

I shoot it in .303 Savage, .308. and 7.5 x 55 SR.
I use Universal, very similar to Unique, 8 to 9 gr, gives 1200-1400 fps.
I prefer a slower powder, Herco, 9gr gives 1400fps and 11 gr gives 1750fps.
All of the Herco loads will bust clay pigeons at 100yds, no problem.

[Antietamgw]

Joel,
I've used 5 and 6gr. of Unique with a real early version of the Soupcan as well as an Ohaus 120 FP GC without the check. I cast from ACWW and some range scrap when I have it. My lube has been LBT Blue and the .3115 sizing die barely touches. I want to try Johnson's Paste Wax on the next batch, lubed as cast (probably while they are still warm as I am pretty lazy...) After 7 gr. groups tended to open and at 10 gr., groups went to 2" or more. In a Win. 94 I just got Saturday, some 10 gr. loads I had left over went all over the paper. We don't need the velocity and have settled on 5.5gr. We have been using it for years in pre and microgroove Marlin 336's and a (Bullberry) Contender Carbine , all chambered in .30-30. It's a fun plinking load that my boys grew up on and still enjoy. Never bothered to chronograph it but it's slooow. With a hard hold and good follow through, they will both shoot easily inside 3/4" at 50yds. They also let you know when the trigger nut slipped up a bit and I think knowing this kept the boys (and me) concentrating a little harder. Maybe if you back down a little your groups might tighten up. I believe I'd go to a slower powder if I wanted more velocity. A big step down in burning rate to 14 gr. H4227 has also done very well in these rifles with the soupcan or 311291. I haven't used anything between Unique and H4227 for this type load that I can remember since these have worked well for me. I did try 5gr - 6gr of Bullseye last weekend, prompted by a thread I believe you started a couple weeks back. It was OK but I saw no real advantage over the Unique loads though I THINK velocity is higher. Hope you are enjoying shooting with your boys!

[Ricochet]

Original post states:

I'm using it in a 30/30 Handi Rifle.
After he went back and edited in that important piece of information. :-D

[Joel Chavez]

Antietamgw, bro thanks for your post. It says a great deal about the wealth of knowledge and generosity people on this forum have. I didn't try the Bullseye due to so many suggesting not to, so I didn't, but I had a feeling it would've worked.[smilie=1: I think I'm going to back off a grain or two and compare the results from this past weekend. I shot groups with Rem SP 110gr using 8gr of Unique and they shot quite well I might add. My 9yrs old boy shot the last two rounds of the batch touching each other at 25yds. But the cast didn't do so hot. I also think the sizing of the cast boolits might have been off a tad. I only had a311 sizer, but I'm on the hunt for a .309 and a .310 sizer. Again, thanks for your insight. Later.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/9DDC9AF2291A561/standard.jpg

8.0grs of Red Dot, Lee C309-113F. 1903 Garage Sporter Springfield. Iron sights, 50 yards.

Since the boolit is pretty short for most 30 cals, it is possible your seater might not be seating them straight.

The boolit is also light, so it may be possible the primer's ignition 'may' be unseating the slug inconsistantly from shot to shot. Try a crimp. A Lee Factory crimper is what I'd suggest if you have one.

The boolit is a simple design and there isn't much to go wrong with it in the casting process, ie: voids or poorly filled edges, etc. It isn't a bore rider so that issue (riding the lands) is a non-starter. Your sizing may have something to do with it if the OD is excessive, like scraping in the throat at the beginning if there is a step in the chamber to throat area.

I've told this story many times in regards to the little Lee slug. A shooting freind showed me a couple targets he'd shot from his M94 Winchester 30-30. At the time it had a Leupold VX-II on it. The 2 five shot groups were a scant 1". Then he informed me they'd chrono'd 2100 fps!

Then to cap it all off he said the work had been done at 100 yards :-) !!!!!!!!! Now without a lot of work, 5 cast rounds running barely over an inch at 100 yards at over 2,000 fps is some darn nice shooting from ANY rifle. But it was a levergun to boot. He said he had 10 more rounds to fire, so I was then able to actually watch him do it twice, again.

..................Buckshot

[PAT303]

I use this boolit in my No.4 as a rabbit load and agree with Buckshot on the straight seating problem.I seat the boolit a bit then spin the case and seat again. Works a treat. Pat

[Joel Chavez]

Fellas, again you folks are grrrreat! I'll try the Lee Factory Crimp die and watch for uneven boolit seating. I slugged the throat last night and I got .308 on the money. I guess a .309 sizer is in order? I like the boolit to a point I'm willing to test and retest until it does what it's suppose to do. Again, thanks guys. Hope you folks have a great day.:drinks:

[versifier]

Joel,
Some thoughts on soupcans and .30-30's....
While you're testing, after you get done with the pistol powders, don't forget to try it with some 3031 and RE7, too, especially as the ranges get longer.

I don't know if the size is the problem, but it can't hurt to try .309 and see. I would be checking the bore for leading regularly with the smaller size, though. At a later time, you might also want to try a harder alloy, but with UNQ and other pistol powders, it might not help.

The soupcan is a very forgiving boolit, and a very versatile one. I think it goes with the .30-30 like whiskey and soda. You have a single shot, so as long as you are sure they are seating straight, they can be seated way out, too, with just the last driving band and the gas check in the case neck.

With proper neck tension, you may find that they do not need to be crimped at all.
If you seat a jacketed bullet (.308) in your cases, does the bullet move (telescope)? If it does, then double check when you seat .309 boolits. If you get movement, you will not get good accuracy even with a heavy crimp. Most of mine like .310-311, but I had one that preferred .308 with lino boolits, so you never know until you give it a try. Some of my single shot .30-30's have liked a crimp, but others have not, and the accuracy difference can be impressive. Only with levers, pumps, and some bolt actions is crimping .30-30's an absolute must.

It is possible that your raised primers are a result of a charge that is too light for your rifle, though it would not necessarily be a problem with other .30-30's. That's easy enough to determine, too, by simply upping the charge and looking at the fired primers. Something is preventing complete case obturation. When the primer is initially struck by the firing pin, it pushes the case forward in the chamber and makes the primer protrude. Then, as the pressure builds in the case, it casues the brass to completely fill the chamber, pushing the case backward and the primer all the way back into its pocket. Usually this happens only minimally with a rimmed case, so I am wondering if the chambering reamer was set a tad too deeply. It might be a good idea to see if the action will close on a NO GO gauge.

[Joel Chavez]

versifier, that was deep bro.:-D I'm learning more and more every day from you guys. Don't stop edjumacating us fokes.:mrgreen: I can't wait to get home and try some more stuff. Later.:castmine:

[leftiye]

Would I be way off to say that if the headspace were tight that the primers couldn't back out? Sorry, Joel, I know we don't want to hear/think about that.

In my .357 max. handi, I've taken to using fired cases, and seating the boolits out to touch the rifling upon chambering them. FWIW

Obturating cases- Fast powders, light loads don't obturate very well. Slow powders, light loads do some better. Full house loads, slow powders do best.

You might try unsized cases, or neck sized only (partial neck sized), -this with fully blown out cases that will chamber tightly and not move forward under firing pin impact to solve the primer pushing out thing. And you might even have to drill out the primer holes to stop this.

If your chamber has a freebore, or if your fired case necks will center in the neck portion of the chamber, then seating loose in the case (not sloppy loose, but say thumb tight) should not hurt accuracy at all if seated against the lands.

Try casting your chamber to see if there is freebore, and to see what kind of leade there is. Some handi's like my 45-70 have no freebore, and no leade (puke- maybe designed for bore riding boolits?). A throating reamer is relatively cheap, and can solve both of these problems. A nice slow (say 2-5 degree) leade will give sufficient alignment in most cases (even withot freebore). To keep ignition consistent you will probably have to use something like 2400 or faster powders without neck tension and with the light boolet.