Lee .459 405 HB mold

[snuffy]

Well now ain't they purty? A thread on here mentioned this mold, so I bought one! Casts right at .459 with the hard alloy I'm using,(15-5 pure lead to lino).

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P9030001.JPG

I tipped a couple over to show the hollow base.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P9030002.JPG


I'm sizing them .458 in my Lyman 450 luber. lubing with NRA formula alox/beeswax 50/50. The last ones I lubed by dipping nose first in lee liquid alox, then tipping over nose up, on wax paper, to allow the LLA to coat all the lube groves. Then they were sized to .458 in the Lyman sizer.

I noticed the bore was not wet all the way around the muzzle with lube. That's a dead give away that you're running out of lube. No leading, at least none that I could see.

The previous casting session, I used the bottom pour spout on the lee pro 20 pot. I had a 75% rejection rate, with mostly poor fill-out. Those in the pics were poured using a Lyman bottom pour dipper. This time, I had less than 10% rejection rate, with much sharper driving bands and a couple of grains heavier.

I noticed the stream exiting the bottom pour spout was at an angle, it also seemed to be smaller than when new. So I drained it and proceeded to scrape the sides of the pot and ream out the spout. We'll see if it works better next session!:)

Oh, the load in yesterday's shootin session was H-322 from 43.0 in 1 grain increments to 46.5. The 43.0 shot the best, also was the least recoil,(duh). The groups were expanding as the charges went up, so I didn't fire the top load.

Rifle is a H&R 1871 Springfield Buffalo Classic.

[PatMarlin]

Looks very nice. I'd like to try those in my Trapdoor.. :drinks:

[dmftoy1]

I just lubed up a batch of those this weekend with LARS Carnuba Red and I've had good luck with only filling the bottom two grooves and sizing to .459. (Marlin 1895 CB)

[chuebner]

The Lee 405 HB works quite well along with the Rapine 460-500 PB in my M1888 trapdoor. My best load is 70gr. (volume) GOEX 2F drop-tubed 24", .625 below case mouth compression with WLRM primers and WW brass for the 405 HB. I use .450 below case mouth compression for the 500 grainer. OAL is 2.550 for the Lee 405 and 2.900 for the Rapine 500gr. These loads shoot an honest 3" group at 100.

I surely do love making the "old warrior" go boom.

Charlie

[PatMarlin]

I need a BP drop tube.

[zuke]

A friend of mine uses that mold to make up paper patched bullet's for his Martini's.

[KCSO]

In the trapdoor you might need to go with 1-30 or softer alloy asn they really need to bump up some for some of the trapdoors. Mine shoots good in a 460 bore unsized and cast 1-40.

[drinks]

Snuffy, I shoot a lot of the 405HB, I do not size, just lube and shoot.
In looking at your loads and checking my notes, I would estimate your velocity at 1600-1800fps.
Several of us who use that bullet find the best accuracy is from 1000 to 1300fps with a marked increase in group size above 1300fps.
You might back off and use a faster powder in smaller amounts or a full case of such as 4831 or 5010.
I just checked my notes, IMR4198, 24gr, 1120fps, 3/4x3/4" 5 shot group at 50 yds.

[snuffy]

Thanks for the ideas and comments!

I may go with a softer alloy, so to allow the base to obterate. Also since the lowest load shot best, I may use that as the max load and work up from below that. Since the pot is empty, nows the time to change alloys. Another consideration is the recoil![smilie=1: I'm no masochist, I don't enjoy getting beat up.

If I were to try 20-1 lead-tin, is that 20 pounds of pure lead to 1 pound of pure tin? I once got pure lead,(99.3%), from midway. I also got some pure tin at a later date.

I'm sure this rifle CAN shoot good groups, I just have to find that magic load. But that's what is fun about cast boolit shooting. The time that must be spent in pursuit of a goal.

Drinks, you're right on the button, 46.0 H-322 chronoed at 1882 with an extreme spread of 25.8. 43.0 was 1753 with an ES of 13.3.

Now if Lee would just get around to returning my 340 RNFP mold, I could start another project. Don't know if I mentioned that one here, I got it from midway. It cast at .465!:roll: Dipped in LLA, I could size it down to .457, but it leaded like the dickens. Didn't shoot good either. A phone call with Pat at lee, he said that was over their tolerance! DUH! He said +.003, - .000 was their tolerance.

[ejjuls]

Try this load!

Cast from WW metal and sized to 0.459 with FWFBL
Load is through PMC cases and Starline cases - IMR 4198 @ 31.5 grains
CCI lg Rifle Primer and a 1/2" square of Dacron under the bullet. OAL at 2.559" with a moderate crimp. Avg. of 1475 fps and 1" groups at 100yds through my 45/70 Handi-Rifle.

Does a mighty fine job on Elk and Deer too!
Any faster and the accuracy goes out the window (ab 1600fps) any slower and the accuracy remains pretty good but not as tight as the load with the 31.5 grains.
Recoil is tolerable and the audible smack of that bullet hitting home is really satisfying!!

Give it a try?!
Eric

[ejjuls]

Correction to my last post - I am talking about the Lee 405 grain HB RNFP not a BB style bullet.
Enjoy!
Eric

[snuffy]

Ejjuls, thanks.


Give it a try?!

I see that is the starting load for 1886 trapdoors in the Lyman 48th. I will try that, I have some 4198 around somewhere.


Looks very nice. I'd like to try those in my Trapdoor..
Pat, want some? I'd be tickled to send you some, lubed, bare, sized to either .457, or .458. Send me a PM with your addy.

[Rustybob]

What is the oal on that bullet ,snuffy?Iam shooting awin 86 in 45-90.there is not much room left in the action for a very long nosed bullet.and it looks like the lube grooves are large enough for black powder lube:Fire:

[dmftoy1]

Just measured the one's on my bench and I'm showing 1.0645

Regards,
Dave

[Rustybob]

thanks for the reply,has anyone used this bullet with black powder?:Fire:

[13Echo]

The Lee 405gr 45 Hollow Base bullet is a reasonably close copy of the 1873 govt bullet for the 45-70 Springfield. It is a black powder bullet and one of the earliest for cartridge rifles. I use it loaded with 59grs FFg Goex for a carbine load and 70grs for a full rifle load in my 1884 Trapdoor. Cast from 30:1 alloy and lubed with a good black powder lube it cuts clover leafs from Bo's rifle with the carbine load. It is reasonably accurate in my rifle but the old Soldier seems to prefer the 1881 bullet version from SAECO.

It's a worthwhile bullet for any Trapdoor shooter

Jerry Liles

[Misfire99]

thanks for the reply,has anyone used this bullet with black powder?:Fire:
I have. I have an el-cheapo sharps copy with a bore that is sized .459. The Lee 405 HB bullet is the only bullet that I can get anything that looks like a good group with. But I did an experiment to my barrel. I treated it with action magic from Brownells. This stops fouling from sticking to the bore. When I fire and drop the block you can see the fouling just sitting on the bottom of the bore. Point the muzzle to the ground and it falls out. But I think this makes the bore so slick that other bullets don't obfuscate to fill the bore. Only the hollow base Lee works at all.

[PatMarlin]

Hey Snuffy, that would be great.. :drinks:

I've got to slug my Trapdoor. I bought this beautiful 1884 Springfield Cadet II model last year and only fired it once. I autta be shot.. :mrgreen:

[snuffy]

Rustybob, mine are miking out at 1.088. That's because of a poor fit between the cavity and the HP pin, allow a sort of skirt to form on the bottom of the boolit. It's uniform and well filled out, so I leave it. Actually I don't know of a way to trim it off uniformly. I don't have a true macro capability on my digital camera, so I can only get as close as I am on post #1 above.

13Echo, 30-1 huh? Is that enough tin for a good fillout? I'm leaning towards going the super soft route with this boolit, and limiting it to trapdoor velocities. Lessee, if I put 10# of pure lead in my lee melter, how much tin would make it a 30-1 alloy? 1/3 pound?

Range day tomorrow, I'm loaded up with test loads with the HB cast of fairly hard alloy, at 400 grains. It's that counter weight lead,(nearly pure), mixed 15-5 with linotype metal. 31.5 4198,(ejjuls load), also some trial loads with WC-846. 49.0 was recommended in a search on the surplus powder forum here. I dropped down a few to 40.0 and 45.0 as a precaution in case I have a fast lot.

Well 3 weeks after sending the lee 340 mold back it was replaced, got it Thursday. I may fire up the pot tonight to see if they're any better. An inside measurement across the top gave me .460! It should be a good one for plinking!

[snuffy]

Hey Snuffy, that would be great..

I've got to slug my Trapdoor. I bought this beautiful 1884 Springfield Cadet II model last year and only fired it once. I autta be shot..

Let me know what it slugs at, the as cast is right at .460. Then send me an e-mail or PM with your snail mail addy. I volunteered for a weeks lay-off at work, so I'll have lotsa time for the silver stream this coming week![smilie=1: And shooting, looks like the heat has broken, I love this time of year!:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Well .460 as cast is great cause that's the biggest sizer I have, and then I can lube em' with bullshops great lube!

I'll trade you for my world famous' "PatMarlin's California Flake flux" .....:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

I'm trying to locate the thread where I think it was 13Echo- Jerry had told me how to measure the trapdoor slug.

I just remembered I had slugged the bore, but did not measure correctly.

Anyway here's a great thread on these subjects pertaining to this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=8734&highlight=Trapdoor