Boston Bombing Fallout: ALL Gunpowder On Gov't Hitlist

[pietro]

.

Get ready.............................

http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=341435&

Question: Does "manufacturing" include handloading ? :evil:





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[sundog]

“It is outrageous that anyone, even a known terrorist, can walk into a store in America and buy explosives without any questions asked,” said Senator Lautenberg.

I think it's outrageous that he is a senator...

[KCSO]

"My Home Made Black Powder" nuff said.

[wch]

Look, if they can't control the guns, then they'll try to control the ammunition.
If controlling the ammunition means controlling we reloaders (and it certainly has to) then we're next on the hit list.
It's time to get back to the Congress and let the politicians know that there are just as many (or maybe more) voters out here that will fight these new provisions.
I think that a great part of the effective effort in the background fight was due to the NRA's campaign against the bill.
If you aren't already a member, then it's time "join up" fellers, because it hasn't ended, it's just the beginning.

[drhall762]

My best guess from speaking to my local ATF agent is that handloading is manufacturing. The only caveat they make is if it is for personal use, no license is required. Commercial sale requires all the bells and whistles.

What KCSO said. Also, might I add that having a few pounds of sulfer and potassium nitrate on hand before the rush may be helpful.

[Geraldo]

Don't anybody panic yet. At 89 Lautenberg isn't going to be around much longer. Plus they just announced that it wasn't BP or smokeless so his platform to attack gun powder is now missing some planks.

[lovedogs]

Geraldo...just don't forget how ignorant most legislators are on gun related stuff. I doubt very many know the difference between black and smokeless. They don't care anyway. They'll go after anything they think they can to achieve their agenda...to take it all away.

[Edm]

Do you really think our founding fathers would have anticipated that someday an average joe could buy black powder when they wrote the 2nd amendment?

:drinks:

[Mike Brooks]

yes. It's been legal for a couple hundred years.

[james8719]

I think average Joe's, Nathaniel's, Thomas', George's etc. were buying black powder in this Nation long before we were a Nation! Heck, I think they were even buying guns without a background check too!

[Fly]

Don't blame me I voted Republican.

Fly (I also make my own powder) (wink)

[ofitg]

Do you really think our founding fathers would have anticipated that someday an average joe could buy black powder when they wrote the 2nd amendment?

:drinks:

The Militia Act of 1792 required all able-bodied men to obtain firearms, musket balls and black powder.

[cavalrymedic]

EDM was being sarcastic. Lautenberg is an idiot, and once again, they frame the ridiculous assertions that "controlling" gunpowder sales is "common sense." They just love that word. Makes it seem sensible to propose intrusive laws. He likely has no idea how easy it is to make explosives from ordinary chemicals. He needs only look at the power of the Texas fertilizer plant explosion, the Oklahoma Bombing, and many others. I doubt anyone would make a bomb using smokeless or Blackpowder anyway. ANFO is so much cheaper to make and so much more powerful. I repeat, Lautenberg is an idiot, but then, he's in good company.

[cavalrymedic]

Coincidentally, it's already illegal to make a bomb and kill people. That doesn't seem to be stopping anyone.

[Bullshop]

Of all the firearms related deaths in this country what percentage is with hand loaded ammo? Of all the bombings what percentage have used gunpowder of any kind? What sence does any of this make? Will anyone be any safer? Will it make any difference what so ever reguarding this type of event?
It just boggles my mind. Where is the common sence in it that I hear tham talking about? Try as I might to make sence of the idea of banning this or regulating that I just cant find it.
Anybody here ever watch an ant lion catch an ant? Once the ant is in the cone every time it moves it slides farther down and closer to death. It is so close to freedom at the top of the cone but every little move slides him closer to the bottom until the ant lion finally snatches the ant and pulls it under.
I am beginning to feel like the ant sliding into the pit and I know what is at the bottom. The more we struggle for freedom the more we slide down soon to be swallowed up. The ones that should be helping us out are throwing more sand on us, the same ones that claim to be pushing for common sence.

[TheDoctor]

Its not about making sense or logic, its about control. Them controlling you. Nothing else.

[Geraldo]

Geraldo...just don't forget how ignorant most legislators are on gun related stuff. I doubt very many know the difference between black and smokeless. They don't care anyway. They'll go after anything they think they can to achieve their agenda...to take it all away.

I hear you, but I'm getting really tired of panic among gun owners. Keep fighting but don't live in fear.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

In the days of our Founders, if you could grind corn into meal you could make powder.

BvT

[greenmntranger]

This fight we are in, this war on freedom that our own government has been waging against us since the first "gun line" was established in western cow towns in the 1800's is one of attrition. As history has shown us, wars of attrition are not necessarily won by those with the numbers OR technology on their side. We must remain resolute in our beliefs and not waiver from the fight no matter how long.

Yeah, I know, flowery words. But this is a fight that we can not give up on, since winning this fight, or more realistically, NOT LOSING, guarantees that we remain a free nation.

[wch]

Don't anybody panic yet. At 89 Lautenberg isn't going to be around much longer. Plus they just announced that it wasn't BP or smokeless so his platform to attack gun powder is now missing some planks.

Geraldo, there's a great deal of difference between panic and forewarned.

[oldred]

Geraldo, there's a great deal of difference between panic and forewarned.


Yes and even panic beats the heck out of complacency!

[oldred]

Double post

[justing]

has any one seen what a gallon of gas can do? so in that line of thinking we should do background checks on all gasoline sales over 5 gallons

[Fly]

Well the point is, THAT these dumb butts DON"T GET,It's not the honest people that do these things.It is
the crazy's.Do they think making it harder to get or make stuff is going to stop them?

These people will still invent ways.I saw what the OKC bomb could do.Ammonium nitrate &
Nitro methane, makes a unbelievable bomb.

Do we ban Drag Racing, & farming, to keep us safe.This is what the Democrat's think will.

GIVE ME A FRICKING BRAKE! I,m getting sick & tired of these idiots.

Fly

[cajun shooter]

The FBI has already announced that they feel the explosive used in Boston was of a weapons grade and not any kind of gunpowder.
The worst bombings that this country has had were carried out with farm fertilizer and jet airplanes. Why didn't the good senator place jet air craft in his bill along with all farm products. Maybe he does not want to travel by ground and he likes farm grown produce. Later David

[mrb7]

Coincidentally, it's already illegal to make a bomb and kill people. That doesn't seem to be stopping anyone.

Come, come now. Don't go about spouting the obvious. You'll spoil it for the dullards.

As mentioned, McVeigh used fertilizer and fuel oil. So lets ban food and central heating so we all starve in the cold.

[M-Tecs]

A federal law enforcement official told CNN that both bombs which detonated at the Boston finish line were small, and initial tests showed no C-4 or other high-grade explosive was used - indicating they were crude devices.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310596/Boston-bombings-latest-FBI-use-phone-records-identify-suspect.html#ixzz2R2orYUSY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[M-Tecs]

More BS!!!!!

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/17/how-the-gun-lobby-has-already-blocked-bostons-bombing-investigators/

[oldred]

No one today would ever be able to duplicate the high tech methods and equipment nor be able to obtain the exotic chemicals that were used 200 to 300 years ago to effectively blow up buildings and people! I mean it's a closely guarded secret how to make explosive black powder and the components of such powder would be extremely hard to obtain so obviously a ban on powder would cause terrorists to just give up and go home, well it would-wouldn't it? :veryconfu

[Fly]

Thats why I NEVER WATCH CMNBC!Never watch them & tell your friends the same.That is how you rid them
of preachering the reverse of the what we Americans beleave.It is not there place to take sides.

They are there to REPORT NEWS, & not to impose there veiw.

JMOHOP Fly

[mold maker]

Would making politicians illegal, make it safer "for the children"????????
I'm fer it.

[John Boy]

The Militia Act of 1792 required all able-bodied men to obtain firearms, musket balls and black powder.
Wish this a fact but it isn't ...

The Militia Acts of 1792 were a pair of statutes enacted by the second United States Congress in 1792. The acts provided for the organization of the state militias and provided for the President of the United States to take command of the state militias in times of imminent invasion or insurrection.

[fouronesix]

IIRC the history and correct this if it's incorrect- but one of the key things that allowed the Revolution to proceed and possibly even to succeed was the growing ability of the Colonies to produce their own blackpowder in quantity and quality and not rely on English or foreign sources?

[RPRNY]

416 - Sharpe's 1937 "Complete Guide to Handloading" includes a history of powder production from Colonial times through the 1930s. In 1775 there was very limited domestic production and France supplied a good deal of powder to the US during the war. Washington bluffed the British out of Boston with the guns Knox brought from Ticonderoga. There was not enough powder to fire a single salvo. Domestic production picked up during the war but it was always a concern.

[fouronesix]

Yep, I've got several US arms history books including Sharpe's handloading book- that's maybe where I read about the scramble to ramp up production.

[ofitg]

Text from the Militia Act of 1792 -


I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act.

<snip>

That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

[uscra112]

IIRC the history and correct this if it's incorrect- but one of the key things that allowed the Revolution to proceed and possibly even to succeed was the growing ability of the Colonies to produce their own blackpowder in quantity and quality and not rely on English or foreign sources?

Sadly, not true. If the Dutch (not the French) had not stepped up and supplied us with powder we would have been up the proverbial creek. Read Barbara Tuchman's "The First Salute". By the War of 1812 we DID have a substantial powder industry. Much of the saltpeter we needed came from the Mammoth Caves in Kentucky.

[uscra112]

As I remember it, Lautenbugger brings this bill up every couple of years. This time the MSM are jumping in to support it. It will fail. The same coalition of Rs and Ds that blocked the background checks amendment will step up.

My argument would be that the infrastructure for a black market in gunpowder already exists. Your local cocaine dealer. If they can't stop the drug trade, how will they stop a powder trade? Of course, only your local criminal element will have powder, but why would that matter?

[Geraldo]

Yes and even panic beats the heck out of complacency!

Really?

Panic: Panic is a sudden sensation of fear which is so strong as to dominate or prevent reason and logical thinking, replacing it with overwhelming feelings of anxiety and frantic agitation. Panic may occur singularly in individuals or manifest suddenly in large groups as mass panic (closely related to herd behavior).

I'd prefer a rational response instead of the herd behavior we've seen with AR15s (not banned), magazines (not restricted), and ammo (not banned). I am always on guard for attempts to infringe any of my rights, but I won't run off a cliff with lemmings just because a decrepit senator trotted out an old piece so he could get some media attention.

[fouronesix]

Sadly, not true. If the Dutch (not the French) had not stepped up and supplied us with powder we would have been up the proverbial creek. Read Barbara Tuchman's "The First Salute". By the War of 1812 we DID have a substantial powder industry. Much of the saltpeter we needed came from the Mammoth Caves in Kentucky.

That implies domestic production was near none or so low as to be of no consequence. I went back through the material I have and found- much of the domestic stores including those of domestic production were being lost to poor storage after distribution, Washington had been somewhat successful in blockade running and that by 1777 domestic production had exceeded 90-100,000 lbs which likely tipped the balance toward success in the war.

[Fly]

Is it not amazing what this one president has done to the trust in our goverment.I,m 68 years of age
& NEVER in my life time have I EVER seen Americans in such a state of mine.

So very sad a man can buy the election with our own money.
Fly

[pietro]

A one sentence editorial, that appeared in the Peoria Journal Star, speaks volumes..............

"A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens."




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[smokeywolf]

pietro, a profound truth!

[Rick Hodges]

Fox news is reporting that bomber #1 purchased two of the "Most powerful kits" available from a New Hampshire fireworks dealer. Some $300 worth. ATF confirms that propellant used in bombs was consistant with type found in fireworks. For Lautenberg and his cohorts.....OOOPS! Lets see if they are as tough on the fireworks industry.

[Boz330]

Having made some home made explosives as a kid from fire cracker powder I can tell you that can be some scary stuff. Got me in way to much trouble as a kid. The old man was much tougher on me than any law enforcement.

Bob

[pietro]

Well the point is, THAT these dumb butts DON"T GET,It's not the honest people that do these things.It is
the crazy's.Do they think making it harder to get or make stuff is going to stop them?



With all due respect, Fly - it's gun owners who think like that that "don't get it" !

The anti's KNOW that - it's about CONTROL, and eventual fufillment of their dreams of banishment, as is virtually the case in Great Britain.


.

[Reg]

Fox news is reporting that bomber #1 purchased two of the "Most powerful kits" available from a New Hampshire fireworks dealer. Some $300 worth. ATF confirms that propellant used in bombs was consistant with type found in fireworks. For Lautenberg and his cohorts.....OOOPS! Lets see if they are as tough on the fireworks industry.

I think it was on CBS ( no less !! ) reporting that indeed it was BIG fireworks sets. The older of the two perpetrators purchased one kit and got the second free--what a deal. The kits contained what is called "mortars",these puppys are big and very loud when they go off. It would be very easy to imagine a number of these mortars placed in a sealed vessel doing the damage they did.
I wonder if the good Senator bothers to read the morning news at all and if he accidentally did-- what he thinks now.
Surely it wouldn't have anything to do with getting one's research done first before opening one's big mouth.
I for one would gladly accept his public personal apology.

[thxmrgarand]

I apologize for always harping about this, and having only one statement to make over and over to boot but every person who believes in gun rights must be politically active. The 2 US Senators from my state voted against the gun grab legislation earlier this month. One is a Democrat and he is up for re-election next year. I am a single-issue voter when it comes to guns but more than that, I will be going door-to-door for a Democrat for the first time ever because this senator stuck with us when circumstances gave him a chance to either help or hurt us. The newspapers even claim Obama called him and twisted his arm about the gun bill, and what he claims to have told Obama is about what we shooters would have wanted him to tell Obama (realistically of course). I will probably be going to fund-raisers, maybe even hold one at the house (possibly hiding the silver since many Democrats would come). I may be stuffing envelopes, putting yard signs at the homes of other shooters, etc. - all the stuff gun people must do if politicians are going to stick with us. When the NRA emailed me to thank this senator on the day after the vote I had already done that earlier in the day (left him a voice-mail that is). We need to reinforce good behavior when we see it in elected officials.

And we need to thank the NRA and our good luck for the existence of the NRA. I pitch the NRA to all shooters as I am sure we all do. When younger people mention the cost I get out my checkbook. What better gun-rights value can there possibly be than for an older person like myself to pay for a new NRA member?

[Bullshop]

pietro
You got it! Anything that can be used to achieve that goal will be used. I think/feel even direct involvment in such sickening
things as we see in the news these past months.
My belief as well is that eventually they will get what they want. But oh my wont it be a surprise when they learn who they were really working for.

[L1A1Rocker]

Having made some home made explosives as a kid from fire cracker powder I can tell you that can be some scary stuff. Got me in way to much trouble as a kid. The old man was much tougher on me than any law enforcement.

Bob
It would appear that deconstructing fireworks is regular past time for boys:)

[Boz330]

It would appear that deconstructing fireworks is regular past time for boys:)

Deconstructing anything was a past time for me. My nickname for awhile was the mad bomber and I earned it honestly. I've told the story before but my old man probably rolls over in his grave every time I do. Most people have one Guardian Angel, I'm pretty sure that I was assigned a Platoon of them, to have made it to this age or even 25 for that matter.

Bob

[Fly]

Well Bob as you know I still make fireworks.But mine only exsplode high in the air.
Ground salutes of any power are a no,no now days.You can get into BIG trouble making
them.

More fun watching a shell exsplode high up & the colored stars light up the sky.

We change as we get older, Fly

[Texantothecore]

Fox news is reporting that bomber #1 purchased two of the "Most powerful kits" available from a New Hampshire fireworks dealer. Some $300 worth. ATF confirms that propellant used in bombs was consistant with type found in fireworks. For Lautenberg and his cohorts.....OOOPS! Lets see if they are as tough on the fireworks industry.

Where did you see that the explosive used was from the fireworks? I cannot find it anywhere....other than people assuming that it was the case. I don't think it was black powder as the exposion was too violent with a very strong shock wave.

I have also seen pictures of two of the components of the bomb and they did not have any black powder residue on them, or any residue that I could see.

[Boz330]

Well Bob as you know I still make fireworks.But mine only exsplode high in the air.
Ground salutes of any power are a no,no now days.You can get into BIG trouble making
them.

More fun watching a shell exsplode high up & the colored stars light up the sky.

We change as we get older, Fly

That was a real long time ago when I was 13. I agree with you on the high in the sky stuff.

Bob

[Fly]

Where did you see that the explosive used was from the fireworks? I cannot find it anywhere....other than people assuming that it was the case. I don't think it was black powder as the exposion was too violent with a very strong shock wave.

I have also seen pictures of two of the components of the bomb and they did not have any black powder residue on them, or any residue that I could see.

It was reported on Fox & a interveiw with the fire works store.Not everything in night effects is black powder.The thing is
bombs as that can be made from many differant things.Propane, Ammonium nitrate & so many things it is crazy.I just hope
the goverment doe's not go after the fireworks industry.

We can not stop thease crimes by regulating everything in our lives.It is the people doing this stuff.When I was a kid we had
no gun controll & no crimes like today.It is the people behind this that need to be addressed.

JMOHOP Fly

[Texantothecore]

It was reported on Fox & a interveiw with the fire works store.Not everything in night effects is black powder.The thing is
bombs as that can be made from many differant things.Propane, Ammonium nitrate & so many things it is crazy.I just hope
the goverment doe's not go after the fireworks industry.

We can not stop thease crimes by regulating everything in our lives.It is the people doing this stuff.When I was a kid we had
no gun controll & no crimes like today.It is the people behind this that need to be addressed.

JMOHOP Fly

A agree with all you said. I think it is a mistake to regulate the general populace as if they we're crazy. We're not.