Way off with 9mm (with pics)

[dmclark523]

So I got the itch to go out today, and thought it would be nice to test a load on my carry gun. It's a SCCY CPX-2. It's got the same look and feel as my Keltec P11, for those of you who are more familor with those. (they both have a 3.1in barrel).

I was shooting at soft targets about 40-60 feet away, but I was grouping 2.5-3 inches left and a tad high.

Shot 40 rounds. Here are some pics so you can see the leading was minimal:

67805

(Rear of the barrel after 1 patch of Hoppes)

67806

(Front of the barrel after 1 patch of Hoppes)

67807

Here is my first patch through it. As you can see, basically just grit and grime, no shavings or specs of lead to indicate leading problems.


Heres my load data:

Lee 356-120-tc, panlubed with 50/50 alox from WLL. Sized to .357

3.0gn AA#2, seated to 1.040.

BTW, barrel sluged at .3555-.356.

Air-cooled from straight WW with a BHN of 12-13

Any reason why at such a close range i'm SO far off? I feel like 2+ inches is ridiculous.... Any help appreciated.

[Love Life]

Are you using the pistol for Bullseye shooting or self defense? If a bullseye gun then being off 2.5 inches is bad. If a self defense gun then 2.5 inches is nothing to worry about. I never saw a person that was less than 2.5 inches wide by 2.5 inches tall...

You being off could be any number of things:
Sights
Load
You
Bad day shooting
insert reason here.

Start with one variable and work through them to find out what the dealio is. I would first ensure my grip, shooting position, trigger pull, etc was not the culprit. If neither of those are not the culprit then I would adjust the sights to hit POA. If you can't adjust the sights then work on the load. IF none of that works then there are different powders, boolits, moon cycles, etc.

No leading, nice groups at 15-20 yards, only 2.5 inches off consistantly=legit.

[dmclark523]

Thanks that makes me feel a little better. It's for plinking, but I carry HP in it for self-defense.

What about sizing to .358? I don't know if it would work, my case gauge is pretty tight already at .357. Does anybody have luck sizing up that far??

[Love Life]

I use .3575 boolits in my Glock 26 and the barrel slugs at .3567ish. I could go larger in diameter, but the leading stopped when I started feeding it .3575 boolits lubed with speed green. Then I bough a 9mm GC mould when I wanted to move to a heavier boolit and don't even bother with "right alloy" anymore.

It depends on if the round will chamber with a boolit sized to .358 along with the increased diameter of the loaded round. If you have no leading now I would not change things.

[MT Gianni]

How does it group with factory ammo @ 15 yards? You might not improve but you might come close by changing lube, powder, fit, primer brand and case brand. We don't know enough right now to comment.

[runfiverun]

velocity.

[kir_kenix]

It still might be ok to try experimenting with a .358 boolit. If you already have the die, I say go for it.

I would say that 2.5 inches at 15-20 yards is not really a big deal, especially considering the platform (self defense gun). If you aren't getting leading, and it is consistant, 2.5 inches isn't really a big deal. If you were shooting bullseye...then you would need to make a correction. For a primary SD gun, with plinking loads...I'd just keep doing what you are doing. In some of my self defense guns, I can't shoot consistantly enough at 20 yards to tell 2.5 inches anyway...

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

right! ;)

[popper]

Sounds normal for Alox lube.

[Bulldogger]

My P11 shoots centered but a few FEET low compared to the sight picture (at 5 yards). I put a strap on the back of the grip to push against my palm and raise the natural point and don't use the sights at all. It's fine close close in, but I tell myself if I get into a situation where I'm getting into a two-hand weaver stance and starting to sight down it, I'm no longer using it for what it was built for and better stop shooting and start finding cover.

Before folks badmouth it because it's a Kel Tec, I had a S&W airweight with a 1.5" bbl that couldn't throw bullets through the same hole twice if it was locked in a vice. Small guns are too often a tradeoff.

I do think the KT and your clone SHOULD shoot better. But I don't have the luck.

Bulldogger

Good for self defense,

[MtGun44]

Different loads shoot to different POI. Just a fact of life.

I'd bump up the velocity to more normal and see if it doesn't move closer to
POA. I have seen revolvers shoot 6" left at 25 yds with light loads
and slowly head back to normal center as I bumped the load up to
a hot load.

Bill

[jonp]

No offence but sccy pistols are not exactly target grade. If you are consistantly grouping to the same area then your sights are probably off. For me with that pistol I would consider your grouping quite adequate for close in self defense which is what the gun is designed for. Sccy guns are kinda neat. I almost bought one but found a high point instead. Ugly, over large and not target grade but the grip is fantasitic and it goes bang every time with all ammo I try in it. For what you paid, if it works well I think you got your monies worth and I for one would be happy with it. Remember, the overwhelming majority of self defense shootings occur from 21 feet and in. at that distance all you need is for your firearm to work and your bullets to hit within a pie plate/8 inches

[Nose Dive]

Mmmm... If I get 3 inches at 50 yards... I like it... but,,,that's me...bad eyes,,,shaky hands,,,wind,,*Riverrun*..varince in load (velocity)... Wife ate my *** out for going to the range...Sinus head ache... name it... Now,,,with my Scoped pistol... might guess my sizeing and load was off... or..the bench was loose...or...or...or.... So...now...my 'opinion'...is

With your carry gun at 50 yards...smile...pack up..go home..clean you gun...have a beer and be happy on the planet Earth.

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, good. Kindly pick two.

[MtGun44]

POI that is 2" from POA for this size of gun is irrelevant for the intended
purpose.

Bill

[Case Stuffer]

Thanks that makes me feel a little better. It's for plinking, but I carry HP in it for self-defense.


I carry a SA-XD9 SubCompact ,3" barrel. With my carry loads if I use a two hand grip weaver stance and squeeze the trigger at 15' it will keep 5 rounds inside of a 2" square. IMO this is terrible plinking accuracy much lless bullseye but neither is the purpose for which it was purchased.

Instinct, point , snap , up close defensive shooting I keep 2-5 string taps inside of the A zone on a IPSC target and that is what it was purchased for. I could spend hours upon hours and thousands of rounds of ammo practicing with it and it would still be a very sorry target gun. I can very easily out shot it with either of my .45ACPs 1911s,my S&W Mod. 52,or any of my revolvers .

[easymoney]

Just went through the same thing with the wife's revolver. It's very accurate with my target loads but was way off with the defensive loads I was trying to use. Learned that the faster I moved the bullet the closer they got to center. With the last, hottest load I had on hand I was 1" left of center, about 1" high at 15 yards. I'm going to try them just a little hotter and see if that moves the group to center. Seems that speed is the answer, for my issue anyway.

[captaint]

I don't think those groups are anything to worry over for a self defense piece. Heck, if you want to shoot target grade groups, get a nice 1911 or something meant for shooting groups. I have a Walther PPK-S that I can't hold under 3" with at 25 yards. The gun MIGHT do it, but I can't make it so. It's a carry gun. I can certainly hit what I want at 7 yards - so ??? Mike

[ironhead7544]

It is often necessary to adjust sights. Should be easy enough. Seems like a good practice load for your pistol.