Can anyone suggest a good older reloading manual...

[Woodsman 22]

One that has a decent sized section with rifle loads for the 44-40? I am thinking that I will need an older reloading manual, since the new ones don't have but a couple loads listed for this old caliber but I don't know which issues (Lyman #48 maybe?) would have a good amount of data available. Your replies are appreciated!

[thekidd76]

Woodsman..PM me your email address and I'll send you PDFs of Lyman 44 and Lyman 48. 44 only has a couple, 48 has a few more.

[ddaniel1]

Loaddata.com has a ton of loads for 44-40. The subscription cost is reasonable compared to buying a manual.

this is from one:
Warning! Notes: Big brother of the .38-40 WCF and generally more popular, especially with modern replica rifles and revolvers being manufactured in this caliber, we'll split this one up into three groups according to relative gun strengths. Pressures of factory rounds are held to moderate levels. Group I (see remarks) is for rifles with weaker actions; Group I includes Model 1873 Winchesters, Colt Lightnings, Ballards, Stevens No. 44, etc., plus all black powder .44-40 WCF revolvers and smokeless powder Colts produced prior to 1905. Group II (see remarks) is for rifles with stronger actions like Model 1894 Marlins, Model 1892 Winchesters and Model 14 1/2 Remington slide-action rifles. Group III (see remarks) is for stronger smokeless powder revolvers. Watch bullet diameter as bore sizes vary considerably in this caliber. (Handloader Issue 142 "Loading the Old Ones" by Ken Waters)

[fcvan]

Although I don't shoot 44-40, I do shoot 38-40, and had similar issues finding suitable data. Most references for either cartridge were designed to meet the low pressure standard so that somebody doesn't blow up an original Winchester carbine or an old Colt Revolver. Modern weapons, like my Vaquero in 38-40, can be fired at higher pressure and velocity as modern brass and modern revolvers are much stronger. The old low pressure loads are still rather quick velocity wise.

If you look at some of the new loads using 2400, you can get pretty decent velocity from a handgun barrel. A longer barrel with slower powders gives a little more burn time and a little more velocity. I found some loads using 4227 in the 38-40 that were screamers and still under 12,000 CUP. After I got the 38-40, I got a single shot carbine in 45 Colt, and later a Vaquero in 45 Colt.

Although there are minor differences, the 45 Colt is roughly the parent brass for the 44-40 and the 38-40 cartridges. Each were designed to launch their respective projectiles over 40 grains of Black Powder. Granted, these were the folded or balloon head cases. Newer solid case head designs have slightly less capacity. The point is, they were all designed to use a lot of slow burning powder. Those original loads were not wimpy by any means.

Considering the concept of 'lots of slow burning powder' a safe load for a modern weapon can be approached. 45 Colt +P loads are impressive. Similarly, 44-40 loads in the +P category should be easy to approach using similar powder choices. Alliant lists a 200 JSP loaded with 14.5 grains of 2400 as having 1230 fps from a pistol at only 12,500 CUP. That is definitely in the BP pressure category.

Assuming new weapon (rifle or pistol) and new brass, you should be able to work up from there. I've seen 45 Colt +P loads (I've read everything I can on this) and it seems the max is 28-30,000 CUP. Beyond that, they recommend 5 shot cylinders to contain higher pressures. The reason I compare the 45 Colt to the 44-40 is because they are quite similar in their beginnings. The 44-40 has marginally less capacity and a slightly smaller projectile. If you are looking for about 20,000 CUP with a 220 grain boolit, that should easily give you pretty respectable velocity from a carbine length barrel. Good luck

[Woodsman 22]

PM sent! and TY!

[Woodsman 22]

Sounds like good advice to me. I won't be pushing the loads past what the rifle can take, and I'll be starting with mild loads.

[Woodsman 22]

fcvan;

Believe it or not, I almost chose a 38-40 over the 44 WCF, but I couldn't find any ammo from any of the usual sources, so I went with the 44 WCF. Well, one company ( I think it was Ammo to Go) did have some at $65 for a box of 50. That was too rich for my blood, I'm afraid.

"Considering the concept of 'lots of slow burning powder' a safe load for a modern weapon can be approached. 45 Colt +P loads are impressive. Similarly, 44-40 loads in the +P category should be easy to approach using similar powder choices. Alliant lists a 200 JSP loaded with 14.5 grains of 2400 as having 1230 fps from a pistol at only 12,500 CUP. That is definitely in the BP pressure category." - That is interesting information. Makes sense that the 45 Colt and 44-40 would be similar and have similar reloading potential.

I have been looking for a source for the 2400 powder, but right now it is almost impossible to find any listed with online sellers, or primers either for that matter. I have been able to get a couple of one-pound cans of Unique and Bullseye from a local retailer, but they haven't been getting much new inventory. There was one four pound container of Red Dot and I should have grabbed it, but I have been spending too much lately as it is. Thanks again for the info.

That is interesting and useful info,

[fcvan]

Woodman22, I bought the Vaquero in 38-40 as it was sitting on the shelf of the local gun store for so long it had dust bunnies in the cylinder. It also came with a cylinder for 40 S&W. The lady who owns the shop had ordered a couple Vaqueros before they stopped making them (they make the smaller new vaquero now) and had sold the .357 and .44 versions back when. The weapon sat there because no one wanted to load for the odd ball cartridge and didn't know it came with the second cylinder. When I decided I 'had to have it' the lady pulled the dusty bugger out and looked at the price tag, still marked with the MSRP for 2005. She said something to the effect 'well, they've gone up since I put it in the case but that's the price marked' and sold it to me - cheap by today's standards.

The first time I took it out all I had was 40 S&W ammo so that's what I shot. Good fun. I ordered some Starline Brass from MidwayUSA, some dies, and went to town. I thought loading bottle necked pistol cases would be a pain but it isn't really. I lube the cases with a lanolin/alcohol mix through a spray bottle and they sized just fine. I read the warnings about 38-40 brass being thin and prone to collapse but that hasn't been my experience.

I found some 'hot' loads listed by a gun writer that were published when the first Blackhawk 38-40/10mm combos came out in the early 1990s. Those loads approached 41 Mag specs which I haven't tried - yet. I already shoot 41 Mag so that isn't an issue. Heck, I shoot the 45 Colt Vaquero pretty darned hot too. I just don't want to abuse the 38-40 brass too much what with the expected extra case stretch. I am going to load both the 38-40 and the 45 Colt with BP for a day when I just want to make smoke. I've seen some YouTube videos of guys loading 45 Colt with BP and they were smoke belching, fire breathing, barn burning pretty darned heavy recoiling loads! Looks like pure fun to me.

[Woodsman 22]

fcvan;

That Vaquero was a great find! I am still considering calling CDNN about that Winchester 1892 take-down in 38-40. It has the longer barrel (24") and I just like the 1892's that much. I am on the edge on that purchase (if CDNN still has them)... I just need some nudging to push me over, lol.

[shooter93]

Cornell Publishing offers reprints of about all the old Lyman Ideal books as well as tons of other old gun book reprints. I've used them quite a bit and Abbey is great to deal with.