SP Primer in 45ACP

[161]

Bought 500 45ACP brass found about 12 brass that have SP. Are they going to these all together or just a few manufactures?

[beagle]

Most of the small pocket .45 ACPs I've encountered came from non-toxic loaded ammunition. Don't think that's a trend right now but with the current idiots at the helm it could be sometime in the future. Just load with small pistol primers, same load and drive on. PITA on a progressive loader though./beagle

[runfiverun]

I have been separating out the few that I find.
eventually maybe one day i'll have enough to do something with.

the 45 acp would have been developed with a sp primer had they been in common use back then.

[dmclark523]

I have been putting all of mine aside, simply because I wasn't sure if SP Primers would work, or if you would need SP Mag Primers. Thanks for the tip Beagle.

And to answer your question, no I don't think it's very common. I've bought a lot of mixed .45 ACP range pickup. Few here, few there, but nothing substantial. I probably have 50 casings of it.

[dkf]

Federal likes to use SPP in their FMJ ammo. The majority of the SPP .45 brass I find is Federal. You should notice slightly less velocity with the SPP brass vs the LPP brass with the same powder charge.

[rexherring]

Several companies are now making small primer .45's. They seem to have been designed for indoor range non lead/toxic shooting. I've collected quite a few and have had good luck with them. A mag primer is not needed in a small capacity case with faster powders used in the .45, so far I haven't noticed any difference in point of impact or function. They can screw up a progressive loader set up for large primers though.

[rmatchell]

I also set mine off to the side for later use when small pistol primers come back around. Never had any problems with the few I have loaded.

[Bullet Caster]

I've run across some Blazer and Federal SPP in .45 acp. Just wonder when the manufacturers will all go with SPP in .45 acp, or if they all will. Prob. not since the initial set-up was with LPP.

As I shoot up my LPP in .45 acp, I plan to trade them off for SPP 'cause I like consolidating autoloaders with SPP. BC

[Bigslug]

When you look at what the police departments are shooting - 9mm, .38, .40, and .45 - you'll notice that the .45 is the only one normally using a large primer. The non-toxic primers are more expensive and seem to generate a more violent impulse anyway, so it makes sense to make only one primer and adjust the one "oddball" primer pocket in the group. Unfortunately, needs of the handloader are not high on that priority list.

Don't know about a trend though. Fiocchi makes their .455 Webley brass with small pockets, while Hornady still does them with the traditional large.

[xfoxofshogo]

i use small primer 45 brass and i kind like it for some reson the small primers are a bit cheper were i buy them

[jonp]

I'm switching over to spp for most of my 45acp needs as I like to consolidate things. I have not noticed any difference between spp and lpp in unburnt powder, performance, etc..

[44man]

The LP primer works great in the 1911 type but in the ACP revolver we found a huge difference in accuracy using SP brass. The LP seemed to move boolits too fast before powder burn in the revolver.
I could not figure out why the revolver had such large groups until I looked at the primer. (Friends new S&W.) I said it is too much, didn't know SP brass was out there so I bushed the pockets. Groups got 2/3's smaller right away.
They shot a little better in his 1911 so he found SP brass cheap.
Don't toss the brass, play with them and see what you get. I know they are pain if mixed in your machines set for a LP primer.

[HATCH]

Out of the thousands of 45acp i have loaded, i came across my first sp case. It was a speer. I put it in a container.

I plan to purchase 1k sp 45 act cases just to have.
This way if i ever run out of large pistol primers i can still shoot using the sp.

[dg31872]

I'm trying to get this right in my head. Does the small primers allow a more complete powder burn before the slug leaves the barrel? If so, would this reduce the smoke somewhat from my Bullseye loads? I always looked at the small primer cases as undesirable, but from what I read here, it may be better.

[44man]

I'm trying to get this right in my head. Does the small primers allow a more complete powder burn before the slug leaves the barrel? If so, would this reduce the smoke somewhat from my Bullseye loads? I always looked at the small primer cases as undesirable, but from what I read here, it may be better.
No, it meant the boolit stayed in the brass before a good burn was started. Primer pressure.
The ACP case is very small for a large primer.
Nothing to do with barrel length.

[fredj338]

Small primers are priced the same as large in most places, so there is no cost savings to the reloader. The manuf can shave a tiny % off each round, & over 100M rounds, it adds up. I hope they don't go this route for general 45acp brass, but it appears to be so. I find a lot of it at the range & save it for guys that I know that like to shoot it. I have found you get about a 20fps drop in vel over the same load using a LPP. RIght now, if you load on a progressive, huge PITA.

[Adam10mm]

Federal, Winchester NT, Federal NT, Speer all use SP primers in .45 ACP. I love it. There is no service pistol cartridge that needs a large primer. 10mm and 45 ACP brass should all revert to small primer. Large primer should start with the 41 Magnum and go from there.

[runfiverun]

it would allow some options as far as neck tension to be explored.
i'm not seeing a lot of small primer 45 brass in my area.
I don't see much range brass period, except 9mm and 22 lr it seems.

[spfd1903]

Started loading .45 Auto several years ago. Received a huge quantity of Win NT (Non toxic) and Speer "Cleanfire" once fired brass from a LE indoor shooting range. Assumed they were LPPs until the Lee hand primer hung up on the first squeeze. I went the opposite way with LPPs. Since I have thousands of SPP cases, I save the LPPs until I have a couple hundred. I still do a QC check before I set up the Dillon 550. If it is set up for SPP and gets a LPP case in the first position, I can tell by the pressure on the handle that there was no seating, most times. Once It seemed like a normal primer seat, but I noticed flecks of Unique scattered around the stations. With the inverse, I can feel resistance right away. A guy wrote in to the Dillon monthly magazine about setting off a primer magazine by trying to unknowingly force a LPP into a SP case. Accuracy wise, I can't tell any difference between the two.

[308Man]

I have seen WIN NON TOXIC, FEDERAL, BLAZER, SPEER. I like them and the shoot great in all guns. I use an old Lachmiller tool with a newer#3 RCBS shellholder with the SM primer sleeve and small primer rod. Works great.

[dilly]

I prefer the SPP brass, and while I save my LPP brass I hope to (once I have enough saved up) make a trade with someone just to homogenize my mix. I suggest that if you prefer LPP brass you do the same and watch the swapping and selling boards.

The only reason for my preference is because I like keeping the priming system the same on my progressive press.

[Bigslug]

For my part, I hope the pencil-necked accountant who thought the small-primer .45ACP was a good idea gets assigned to the most perverted and creative demon working in the lake of fire.

It WOULD have been a great idea - had they come up with it in about 1920. The Great War was over, the military was downsizing, and the 1911 was getting the tweaks that would give us the 1911-A1. One of those tweaks could have been a more appropriate primer. The military wouldn't have cared, and the few folks in the nation who both owned AND reloaded the newfangled selfloader would have gotten over it.

Today, we're talking about an alteration to the most reloaded pistol cartridge in the country, with BILLLLLLLIONS of pieces of brass in existence, and veritable libraries of load data published. Now if we scrounge, we have to screen. Unless the performance gains are magically such that the new cases can make a Colt Gold Cup compete with a scoped Sako .338 Lapua for both accuracy and range, it flat out is not worth it.

[Wis. Tom]

The SP may be a great idea, but they sure make going through 1000's of rounds of brass, a pain. After about round 3000, the small primer federals start looking the same as the large primer federals, LOL, and then you start finding large primer federals, mixed in with the small. The Blazers are the best ones to spot, while sorting.

[jonp]

Federal, Winchester NT, Federal NT, Speer all use SP primers in .45 ACP. I love it. There is no service pistol cartridge that needs a large primer. 10mm and 45 ACP brass should all revert to small primer. Large primer should start with the 41 Magnum and go from there.

This is probably a function of the brass length not diameter, correct?

[jonp]

Small primers are priced the same as large in most places, so there is no cost savings to the reloader. The manuf can shave a tiny % off each round, & over 100M rounds, it adds up. I hope they don't go this route for general 45acp brass, but it appears to be so. I find a lot of it at the range & save it for guys that I know that like to shoot it. I have found you get about a 20fps drop in vel over the same load using a LPP. RIght now, if you load on a progressive, huge PITA.
Did you chrono to find that 20fps and did you use several powders? That would seem to me to be within statistical + or - and too small to really worry about but is interesting. I'm not sure the avg shooter is going ti notive it.

[Adam10mm]

This is probably a function of the brass length not diameter, correct?
Powder capacity. Take the .357 Mag for example. A heavy charge of powder is about 17 or so grains of powder and a SPM primer has no trouble lighting that off. The same powder charge can be a 10mm load with a 135gr Nosler and a max charge of #9. So a small primer is enough for a 17gr charge of powder, just use SPM when it gets up that far. I'm loading 6.0gr WSF in both the 10mm/180gr and 45ACP/230gr and a large primer is overkill for that charge. I'm loading some small primer 45 ACP right now with that same charge and they all go bang and velocity is very similar to the large primer. Same 6.0gr charge as the 10mm and load that in a .40 S&W which has small primers and it has no problem handling that charge either. There is no practical need for the 10mm or 45 ACP to have a large primer.

[jonp]

You are talking about a spm not a sp. I think the length or height if you prefer has as much bearing as simple volume. Everyone on here can chimein and tell me i'm wrong.

[jonp]

You are talking about a spm not a sp. I think the length or height if you prefer has as much bearing as simple volume. Small pistol magnum primers would probably work for all except the largest pistol calibers. everyone on here can chime in and tell me i'm wrong.

[anotherred]

As for finding sp to lp, all the brass I've range picked is about 2:3 small to large over the last year. Seems to becoming alot more prevalent around here. I actually perfer the sp as then I only need to stock sp for all my pistol needs.

[Adam10mm]

You are talking about a spm not a sp. I think the length or height if you prefer has as much bearing as simple volume. Everyone on here can chimein and tell me i'm wrong.
I'm talking about both. Point being is if a SP isn't enough a SPM will work.

[jonp]

I'm talking about both. Point being is if a SP isn't enough a SPM will work.

Gotcha and I agree

[prs]

Why have a standards organization for ammo, if the makers are not going to follow the rules. Good or bad, SP in the 45ACP is bad for those of us using progressive presses.

prs

[NewbieDave007]

In my neck of the woods, range brass is at a 1:5 ratio (small:large). That's just what I've seen from picking up brass that past few months.

[Catshooter]

Another twist is I've started loading the 45 GAP lately. Was created with the small primer. Found fifty rounds of once fired in my pile of S&B brass that is large primer.

Fer crying out loud.


Cat

[zomby woof]

With the recent problem with components, I started acquiring some SPP .45acp. Seeing that .45 is my only large pistol primer. It will allow me to go either way depending on primer availability. If I'm going to hoard primers, one kind will be better than two. I shoot 9mm, 45 and 38/357. If I can go all SPP, it's better for me. I think the ammo manufactures are thinking the same thing.

[plesant3]

Having thousands of rounds of lp 45acp, I HATED the sp stuff, and refused to buy any factory ammo loaded with it. Then I realized most of my 400 CorBon brass were sp, and now any sp 45s I pick up get reformed to 400 CB. Easy enough to sort the sp's from the lp's before cleaning... problem solved!

[gtgeorge]

Then I realized most of my 400 CorBon brass were sp, and now any sp 45s I pick up get reformed to 400 CB. Easy enough to sort the sp's from the lp's before cleaning... problem solved!
Exactly what I do to keep them out of the mix. Just hard to sort them when they come in sometimes. Weird how they can look so close to each other sometimes.

[ioon44]

I have loaded and chronographed a lot of small primer .45 APC and found that the WSPM worked better than WSP with light loads of Clays under a 185gr SWC. The WSP had a large velocity drop and large ES.
I am sure different powders and primer brands could be different.

[44man]

I don't believe the Non toxic stuff. I think it was found the SP primer was better for the tiny case. Hold one in your hand, does it really need a LP primer? Why bother with powder?
I refuse to use a LP mag in the .44 mag and Fed has been on top of that since day one, never using a mag primer. I use a 150 in the .44 with any powder.
Don't stuff SP mags in the ACP either, use standard.

[alamogunr]

I've run across a few SP .45's and kept them separated. I've also bought some, planning to hold them until I run into a problem finding LP primers(I'm expecting another shortage if Hillary is elected). I'll buy more if I happen to run across them. I don't actively look for them.

If there is a difference in performance, I doubt that I would recognize it.

[Shiloh]

Are they Blazer headstamped??

SHiloh

[Outpost75]

I have converted all of my .45 ACP loading to SPP brass so that I can use only one size primer for most of my loading.

Using H&G68 wadcutters and Bullseye powder the small standard primer shows a velocity drop of about 30-40 fps compared to a large primer, but the difference when using a small magnum primer is insignificant and less than the sample standard deviation.

Accuracy is very good, ten-shot groups being less than 2 inches at 50 yards, which is about as good as can be expected with cast wadcutters.

The cases with the small primer pocket are stronger and hold up to heavy loads in my converted Marlin lever action and Ruger Blackhawk convertible which would take apart an M1911 and exceed .44-40 Winchester levels, being 1400+ fps with 200-grain bullet in the rifle and 1200+ in the revolver. NO! don't ask what the load is....

In weighing sorted range brass, there seems to be no difference between Federal-NT, CCI, Speer, or Blazer, which are all produced by ATK Tech Systems, and cases with those headstamps can be mixed together with no ill effect which can be seen on the Ransom Rest at 50 yards.

Win-Clean and CBC cases with small pocket are OK, but weigh differently and I soprt them into discreete batches.

[44man]

Ya know you can't shoot an arrow if not from a tuned bow. It was a problem with long bows, recurves and compounds, each different but once tuned accuracy was crazy. I never professed to being the best archery but had a thousand trophy's and close to 270 deer kills. Bows like most guns are good, it is what you put into them.
If you ever shot or built a 1911 that was 1/2" capable at 50 yards, you sure will see a difference. So will you from a fine S&W revolver. A rattle trap gun is like a bow with the string on backwards. I can see most will not know.

[mongoose33]

I think it started with the primer shortage during one of the gun-control scares; someone couldn't get LPP so they manufactured some .45 with SPP.

I hate it. It means I have to sort all my .45 brass before loading on my progressive; just try priming one of the small pocket cases with a large pistol primer.

Fortunately, there is not much of where I live, and mostly I'm reloading my own brass. However, the odd one sneaks in now and then.

[Big Boomer]

I started running into the occasional SPP .45 ACP cases a few years back and found it confusing and a real puzzler at first. Then I found some more and loaded up a few dozen rounds and they performed well. Then either I contacted a fellow here on Cast Boolits or he contacted me and we swapped a thousand rounds of LPP for SPP (I got the SPP) and have been quite satisfied with them. In fact, I use them exclusively now. If anyone wants to swap a thousand SPP once fired for LPP once fired, send me a PM. We each pay shipping to the other. Big Boomer

[Comrade Mike]

Some guys really like them because it eliminates another primer they have to buy and horde the stuff like it's going out of style. Me I sort it out and sell it to those folks :D

[dudel]

I prefer the SP 45ACP. Converted all my 45 ACP to SP several years ago. SP brass was selling for less than LP. Got several thousand for almost nothing.

I like it because:
1) I don't need to mess with the priming system
2) I can cut down on one size of primer, and stock up on SP
3) I found a slight increase in speed (with Bullseye), and a lower ES when using SP brass
4) Revenge the range rats for swiping my 45ACP with SP (hope they use a progressive)

It's not a problem if you clean and sort your brass before loading.

[GCBurner]

The only drawback to SPP .45ACP is the extra time it takes to sort the small primer cases from the large primer cases in the range pick-up brass. I use a progressive loader for .45ACP, so I have to process them separately, or prime them before running them through and take the depriming pin and primer feed off the press.

[matrixcs]

Many more SPP are showing up at my local range. I hand prime my cleaned,sorted and de-primed cases so it does not bother me. One of the shooting mags this month tested the difference and did not find a significant reason to pick one or the other. I kind of like the SPP because some of the other reloaders hate them...

[trixter]

Federal likes to use SPP in their FMJ ammo. The majority of the SPP .45 brass I find is Federal. You should notice slightly less velocity with the SPP brass vs the LPP brass with the same powder charge.

Really?

[flint45]

I just stick to the LP I have at least 70,000 pieces of brass to late in the game to change now. As of late I have been seeing and still picking up much more .45 ACP brass lately.The LEO'S just leave it on the ground.

[Moonie]

I form spp 45's into 400 Cor-Bon. All factory 400 brass is spp.

[fredj338]

Did you chrono to find that 20fps and did you use several powders? That would seem to me to be within statistical + or - and too small to really worry about but is interesting. I'm not sure the avg shooter is going ti notive it.
With WST, very repeatable, low SD, it was about 20-25fps slower. Diff powders will yield diff results, but that is my test series. So if using sp brass with my IDPA load, I add 1/10gr of WST to make sure I make PF.

[fredj338]

I think it started with the primer shortage during one of the gun-control scares; someone couldn't get LPP so they manufactured some .45 with SPP.

I hate it. It means I have to sort all my .45 brass before loading on my progressive; just try priming one of the small pocket cases with a large pistol primer.

Fortunately, there is not much of where I live, and mostly I'm reloading my own brass. However, the odd one sneaks in now and then.
No they started with the NT, non toxic priming. It is apparently only available in, or only being manuf in SP. So the 45acp gets the SP case. It was waaay before the Obummer election & subsequent shortages.

[bruce drake]

I am like other shooters with a 400 Corbon to feed. All SP Primed 45 ACP brass is reformed into 400 Corbon and LP brass is reserved for 45 ACP. I'm finding I've been shooting more 400 lately so the 1000 odd cases of LP 45ACP brass should last me a while.

[jeepyj]

I also set mine off to the side for later use when small pistol primers come back around. Never had any problems with the few I have loaded.

Wondering? I've seen a couple posts lately mentioning that they don't have small pistol primers. Is this true in some areas are still experiencing a shortage?
Jeepyj

[LenH]

I have about 4K LP cases and 2K of that haven't even been put in the rotation yet. The SP & the GAP brass have been sorted out of everything I have to this point. A
guy at the range was shooting a .45 AP Carbine and had picked up the brass and laid it in a pile on the bench behind me and asked if I wanted some .45 AP brass, I told him thanks
and he left the range. I looked at it and they had a weird black primer and it was the NT stuff with a Small primer. I was with a bunch of Bullseye buddies and we had a practice
session and everyone of us left it there and acted like it was radioactive.

If it ain't broke don't screw it up.

[jonp]

The internet always has primers. I just got 5k SPP from Grafs for $116

[Down South]

I have been separating out the few that I find.
eventually maybe one day i'll have enough to do something with.

the 45 acp would have been developed with a sp primer had they been in common use back then.
Same here. I'got a pretty good stash of 45 acp SP.

[calshipbuilder]

the spp 45s are a pain when loading bulk range brass - always mess me up on the dillon. no easy fix unless I want to hand sort the lot. I wish they stopped making spp 45 ACP

[kf4zht]

I ended up setting up a shell holder plate for the pro1000 just for SPP. There are enough of them around me to make it worth being able to reload. It is annoying to sort after range pickup

When buying/trading brass I value SPP and LPP the same, but mixed brass less. If I know what it is there is less work for me.