Newb's first try at casting

[treadwm]

So today I took my first stab at casting my own boolits. As a first effort I rate it a C-. Very first time, getting used to equipment and the process and I ended up with 60-70% "shootable" boolits. But the OCD QA devil sitting on my shoulder was not happy. :)
I was using NOE 4 cavity 358 135 mold, Lee Prod pot and ww lead.

The end result after throwing many back into the melter.
67471

The good
67472

The bad and the ugly
67473

The majority looked like this. There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. Even with the mold warmed up good I did not get good even flow out. They look like they were cooling before the fill was even done. Thoughts?
Thx.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

It looks like the pot was a bit cold, bring up the temp.

[No_1]

Clean the mould good then clean it again. After you think it is clean, clean it one more time before pre-heating it. Not all moulds need this but some do. I coat my moulds with bullplate when I store them. I clean them with cheap carb cleaner then HOT soapy water before setting them in the machine. I cast at 725 degrees and 7.5 second intervals. After 10 cast if the mould is tossing bullets like those in your first picture I stop the machine with the mould open and give them a healthy dose of carb cleaner while the mould is up to temp. This usually gets the wrinkles out and from that point on all the bullets are "golden".
***** WARNING - DO not use brake cleaner, when it is applied to a heated mould it creates some sort of gas that will cause respiratory failure. *****

[dmclark523]

I think the ones that came out well look very good!

As for the others, I would go with what these guys said. Hotter pot, and cleaner mold.
If you don't have a lead thermometer, buy one now and figure out what works! My straight
WW ingots don't drop uniformly well until 850 degrees. You could be having the same problem.

If you think you have burs or any type of foreign substance in your mold, steel wool works nicely for me,
and doesn't harm/scratch the mold.


EDIT: This also happens to me sometimes when the flow of lead isn't dripping perfectly
into the mold. I.E, it's flowing down onto the sprue plate and eventually drips into the mold.
Next time, if you didn't already, try to steady your mold and let it flow perfectly down in.

[williamwaco]

Wrinkled bullets are nearly always caused by oil in the mold or the mold is too cold.

Cast at the rate of three or four fills per minute for about five minutes.
If you still have wrinkles, your mold needs cleaning.

[zuke]

You did better then I did my first time 30 year's ago!
Increase your heat and add a little leadless solder to each pot, about 3-4 foot length will do.

[treadwm]

I was running about 675 - 700 deg. I followed NOEs instructions for cleaning the mold.
I'll try cleaning again and try the carb cleaner. And run the pot warmer. When I first checked the lead it was 900+deg. I thought that was too much.

Will let you know how how it goes. :)

[cbrick]

I'll bet there are thousands of posts on this forum about proper mold temp and HP spuds up to correct casting temp, still people are posting to crank up the heat to 850+. :roll:

For WW alloy for me I cast at 700 degrees, the only exceptions are very small boolits and some HP molds where I cast at 725 degrees. Most molds cast well if the mold is in the area of 400-425 degrees, if your pot is 700 that is 300 degrees over needed mold temp. If alloy 300 degrees hotter than you need your mold isn't keeping your mold at casting temp you are doing something wrong.

Why cast with the melt at 700 degrees? Because tin looses it's ability to do what it is in the melt to do past 750 degrees and 700 is both plenty hot enough and well below 750. In addition tin and antimony oxidizes very rapidly at temps higher than 750. In addition with the melt too hot you need to wait longer between casts for 850 degree alloy to cool to it's freezing temp, with WW that a little over 500 degrees so you wait for the alloy in the mold to cool 250 degrees.

For the OP, yes your mold is too cool and so is your HP spud. No, you don't need uber heated alloy. You need to pre-heat your mold and cast faster. Stop inspecting your new creations while casting, there is plenty of time for looking at them when finished casting. While your admiring your new boolits your mold and more important your HP spuds are cooling off. Keep the blocks closed and full as much as possible and cast faster. The HP spuds have far less mass than the mold and cool very quickly, get and keep them hot. Your are correct that it looks like the alloy is cooling too soon. The cooled pins will absorb heat from the alloy and set up (freeze) the alloy at the nose before complete fill-out. See your picture of the poorly filled out HP cavity.

A properly heated mold and pins . . . Not uber heated alloy are your keys to success.

Rick

[462]

Wrinkled boolits are a product of:
1. A mould that is not clean enough.
2. A mould that is not hot enough.

At the pot temperatures you mentioned (incidentally, the range I use for aluminum and iron moulds) there is no need to go higher. Instead, pre-heat the mould to 375-400 degree range. You should, then, get first cast keepers.

[treadwm]

For WW alloy for me I cast at 700 degrees, the only exceptions are very small boolits and some HP molds where I cast at 725 degrees. Most molds cast well if the mold is in the area of 400-425 degrees, if your pot is 700 that is 300 degrees over needed mold temp. If alloy 300 degrees hotter than you need your mold isn't keeping your mold at casting temp you are doing something wrong.

...stuff deleted...

For the OP, yes your mold is too cool and so is your HP spud. No, you don't need uber heated alloy. You need to pre-heat your mold and cast faster. Stop inspecting your new creations while casting, there is plenty of time for looking at them when finished casting. While your admiring your new boolits your mold and more important your HP spuds are cooling off. Keep the blocks closed and full as much as possible and cast faster. The HP spuds have far less mass than the mold and cool very quickly, get and keep them hot. Your are correct that it looks like the alloy is cooling too soon. The cooled pins will absorb heat from the alloy and set up (freeze) the alloy at the nose before complete fill-out. See your picture of the poorly filled out HP cavity.

A properly heated mold and pins . . . Not uber heated alloy are your keys to success.

Rick

I actually did some reading and prep beforehand. That's why I turned the pot down to 700 after the first temp reading. I did not stop after each cast to inspect. I preheated the mold on top of the melt pot. And I did 30 or so casts before I paused for a break. I dropped the boolits on cloth in somewhat of a line so I could see the progress of the casting when I was done. There were just as many wrinkled ones at the end as there were at the beginning.
That's why I was confused on my results. As you pointed out, with the surplus of heat in the lead, the mold should have finished coming up to temp relatively soon. I would have expected a "patch" of good boolits once the mold temp was right. Instead the few good ones were scattered thoughout the whole batch.
The takeaway for now is to re-clean the mold and shoot for a better pre-heat. We'll see how it works the next time around. One thing I like about this hobby is the screwups don't go to waste. :)

[treadwm]

462,
How do you do your pre-heat? On a hotplate?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Go to a yard sale and find an old electric skillet. You can also get a cheap one at Wally world. I cut a section of the side of the skillet out so that my mold with handles, can sit flat on the skillet. I turn it up to 400 deg. put on the lid and by the time my pot is melted, my mold is well heated. Works great.

[runfiverun]

hot plate or on the pot itself.

you know the noe molds get better and better as you use them right?
after 3-4 heat cycles they really start to shine.

[treadwm]

runfiverun,

No, but thats good to hear. I was very impressed w/ the quality of their work.

[huntrick64]

Welcome aboard! You will have a future full of fun and friends. This site is an infinite pool of wisdom.

[462]

462,
How do you do your pre-heat? On a hotplate?

Yes, I use a hot plate and a "mould oven". The oven is a 5" square metal electrical box and cover (~$5 from the local hardware store). That size easily accommodates four and six-cavity moulds. The box allows for even heat distribution, and the cover helps with heat retention.

[cbrick]

A hot plate and electric box is what I use also. In addition I use an aluminum plate to distribute heat evenly and not place the mold directly on the coils. I use the NOE digital thermometer to keep the heat at around 400 degrees, see the probe on the right side of the plate.

67542

Rick

[treadwm]

That's a pretty cool setup. A "docking station" for the mold would be handy. :)

[treadwm]

Had another go at casting today. Used an electric skillet for a mold warmer. I had a new (to me) 2 cavity .45 mold to try out. Both molds went in the skillet set at 375deg while the lead is melting. Once they are hot, both get a cleaning (outside) with brake cleaner and then back in the skillet. I run about 10 pours thru each mold and I'm still getting bullets that look like abstract art. As I was messing with the melting pot to stop a drip, I notice the pot doesn't pour in a steady stream. It looks more like a quick succession of drops. I use a piece of guitar string to clear up the blockage. The next casts immediately look better. Being new to the Lee pot I didn't realize I was getting short changed on the pour speed. So now I can manage casts that look like this:

68024

Thanks everyone for the help!

--Mike

[runfiverun]

the 45 needs more heat too, but you are definatley improving.
once you find your groove and pick up some speed, i bet things really come together.

[rmatchell]

Looks great, keep playing and you will be casting all keepers.

[OnHoPr]

IMO williamwaco #5 and cbrick #8 have good tips. Your mold is cooling between pours especially with the hollow point. Getting a quicker smoother rhythm will help with the mold temps. That will come with practice. Your actual pour into the mold can cause wrinkles also, so why you try to pick up speed you may start to have slight pout problems. But, after a while the boolits will start looking GOOD.

['74 sharps]

I keep it simple by heating the mold on medium heat on a hot plate when I plug in the pot. Bullets come out fine from the start. For the sprue and mold top, I use Permatex Anti-Seize Lube. Works great and very easy to see when time to re-apply.........

[treadwm]

Did another batch last night of hollow points. As everyone has pointed out, the key is having the mold hot enough. Once it got there, the boolits came out just fine. You get into an efficient rhythm and it stays hot.
The only other problem I ran into is once the mold (NOE 4 cavity 9mm) gets hot, it has a tendency to get sticky. The bullets are a little harder to release and at one point, the mold became hard to open. I don't think it was excessively hot cuz the sprue puddles were still hardening quickly.

[cbrick]

The only other problem I ran into is once the mold (NOE 4 cavity 9mm) gets hot, it has a tendency to get sticky. The bullets are a little harder to release and at one point, the mold became hard to open. I don't think it was excessively hot cuz the sprue puddles were still hardening quickly.

The reason boolits fall out of the mold at all is because as they cool they shrink. This brings up . . . Are you still casting at 700 degrees as you mentioned in a previous post? The boolits not only need to solidify inside the mold they also need to shrink, only takes a few seconds at normal casting temps but if the alloy is too hot it of course takes longer for them to cool to that temp or they can be sticky.

The shrinkage is part of the reason that high antimony boolits can sometimes be a little sticky because antimony shrinks less than lead.

It's all part of that rhythm you mentioned and each time you cast it will become easier to achieve. Before ya know it you'll be wondering what the problem was. :mrgreen:

Rick

[treadwm]

Roger that, cbrick. It does get a bit better each time.
The temp was about 675 when I started. It showed about 625 when I noticed the sticking. The bullets were fully formed though. :-)
It's the nuances that are taking me a bit to learn. When to go a tad faster, when to pause longer before release, etc. It's all good when you see that first perfect cast though!