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View Full Version : 44 magnum 240 gr. hp gas check or no gas check



donovansn585
04-13-2013, 06:10 PM
I am in the process of ordering a mold for casting 44 magnum 240 grain hp. I will be shooting these out of a ruger 44 carbine and eventually a super Blackhawk, just looking for advice on whether I should buy a gas check mold or not? Thanks Sean

felix
04-13-2013, 06:26 PM
Gas check not required for typical hunting velocities, but it is very desirable for speed applications (think 100 yards plus). ... felix

Tatume
04-13-2013, 06:52 PM
Donovan,

I hate to sound snotty, but if you have to ask you should probably get the gas check mold. Gas checks forgive a lot of growing pains when learning to cast and shoot your own boolits. Also, when shooting from a carbine you may be pressing the velocity limits of plain based bullets. If you're going to exceed 1400 fps, you want gas checks (although some experienced casters/shooters here have been able to exceed 1400 fps with plain based bullets).

Remember to specify a nose length that will work in the magazine of your carbine. If I recall correctly, it is limited to SAAMI spec.

GaryN
04-13-2013, 07:46 PM
I would never buy a mould for pistol shooting that had a gas check except maybe a 30 carbine. But if you are shooting out of a carbine I think I would opt for the gas check version.

jonp
04-14-2013, 07:26 AM
Would the advice on a gas check also apply to a lever gun 44Mag? Isn't the need for a gascheck tied to boolit hardness and velocity?

btroj
04-14-2013, 07:45 AM
A gas check isn't required in the lever action either. It can help but isn't required.

Yes, bullet hardness and velocity are PART of the calculation on when a check is needed. It isn't as much velocity as it is pressure and the pressure curve. Lube quality can play a role as does fit in the throat, and most orally bore diameter.

I can shoot a plain base 45-70 at 1600 with no leading, can't do that in a 30-30 nearly as easily. I find that the larger the bullet diameter the easier it is to get a plain base to shoot well. Wouldn't even try a plain base in a 22.

Other than cost there isn't a down side to using a check.

WHITETAIL
04-14-2013, 07:53 AM
I agree that a gas check will help:Fire:
with the rifle, but not needed with the pistol.

winelover
04-14-2013, 07:57 AM
The gas check will allow you to use a softer alloy with higher velocities. Always desirable in hunting applications, IMHO. For my 1894 Marlin, I have NOE's version of the 265 Ranch Dog RNFP. The mold I ordered, casts both PB and GC boolets from a 50-50 alloy of pure and WW. I worked up loads for both styles. The low velocity (Unique) loads with PB and high velocity (2400) with GC. Good to have options. YMMV.

Winelover

44man
04-14-2013, 08:54 AM
I will never be able to count the deer I have shot with the .44, it just might be the very best.
I use a hard boolit, WD, WW's. I have never seen a need for any expansion, the darn gun just works.
That means a PB is good enough too. Anything to get out of paying the crazy prices for GC's.
A little expansion does not hurt but I have seen no real need. Just don't expand too fast or too much.
It started with me hunting with the 240 XTP. Killed fine but I recovered all the bullets, no blood trails at all and most went 60 yards or so. I seen then go down and could have lost them in a thicker area. I worried about a quartering shot or a bone hit so I went to the 320 LBT WLN. Then I bought the 265 RD, the 310 Lee and made some molds. Yeah, GC molds and the prices hurt.
I found the harder boolit worked much better with tremendous blood trails and deer down in 30 yards or less.
But then deer shot at 100 yards or so after the boolit slows, will go a little farther but I still find blood to track. If you load with Unique and shoot slower, get some expansion. This will all depend on the velocity.
My heavy boolits run 1316 to about 1380 fps for the RD. (Have yet to chrono it.) This seems to be the sweet spot for the hard boolits and no deer has ever been lost. It is also the most accurate place. There is just no need to look for above 1400 fps. A 240 gr will be fast so a little expansion is better. Try for two holes in any case.
I will never have anything bad to say about the .44. It has always been my standby deer gun, always works.

white eagle
04-14-2013, 09:06 AM
comes to making your own loaded ammo you are the boss
you have heard what these guys do
and like many have said no hardened fast rule so
if you want to use them use them
I have many many molds some with check bases on they all shoot down range

Blammer
04-14-2013, 09:08 AM
I would choose a GC mould, or better yet, one Cavity GC and one PB, try both that way. :)

subsonic
04-14-2013, 09:13 AM
If you are going to use a softer alloy and try for good expansion with the hollow point, choose a gas check OR check into casting sof nosed boolits with harder bases.

If in doubt, if you're not going to shoot a ton of these, if you are new to shooting cast, get the gas check version. It's the safe route.

44man
04-14-2013, 09:47 AM
The gas check will allow you to use a softer alloy with higher velocities. Always desirable in hunting applications, IMHO. For my 1894 Marlin, I have NOE's version of the 265 Ranch Dog RNFP. The mold I ordered, casts both PB and GC boolets from a 50-50 alloy of pure and WW. I worked up loads for both styles. The low velocity (Unique) loads with PB and high velocity (2400) with GC. Good to have options. YMMV.

Winelover
True as what a few others have said. You CAN shoot a PB very fast if hard or I prefer TOUGH enough. I have taken PB to over max in a .454 and use them in my 45-70 at high velocities.
The problem is hard boolits shot fast do not kill deer well. Now you need expansion and a GC will allow softer lead. That is really why it was designed.
Small calibers depend on expansion.
The saying is that a large caliber is already larger then a small caliber when expanded, true but even a too hard boolit from a .500 will poke a hole like a sharp stick. It is boolit weight and the .500 really needs a little expansion too. My 45-70 at 1630 fps pokes a hole, needs some expansion.
This is on deer so I have no idea about larger animals where hard might work better.
I shoot a lot of deer and use a different caliber as the season goes on. I see a lot of changes in internal damage from caliber to caliber, boolit to boolit.
I have shot quite a few deer with hard boolits with the .500 JRH and it is NOT as good as the .44. It really needs a tiny bit of expansion. Too much will destroy a deer, the search will be for just enough.
If anyone thinks a dead soft hollow point at 1500 fps from a .44 kills deer better, I might have news for you.
My work will never be done and when I get so old I can't lift the revolver, I might still not have the best answers.
I shot six deer last season, two with the .500, two with the .475 and two with the .44. The .500 killed but no blood trails at all when I back track. The .475 dropped both deer in their tracks because of where I hit them so I can't evaluate. The .44 left the largest blood trails and the distance to dead was shorter then the .500.
Some of you are lucky to get one deer because of where you live but please examine what your boolit did. Just because it died means little for the future shots.

rintinglen
04-14-2013, 10:57 AM
I'll second the nomination for a gas check design. That Ruger Carbine will almost certainly like you better for doing so. If you were solely going to load for the Revolver, the PB designs are perfectly adequate, but when you start getting on the long side of 1500 fps, and that's easy in a carbine length barrel, it becomes much more difficult to to avoid the accuracy-destroying efffects of leading. The Revolver will allow you to shoot the GC boolits without a gas check, for casual shooting or plinking. But for best accuracy or top end loads, you want to use a GC boolit. I like the 429-244, but there are others that work just as well.