New #358429 versus "old" design

[David LaPell]

What the reason why Lyman changed the older #358429 mould to the newer design where the forward driving band was thinned down? I have cast both, loaded both and shot both in the same gun and I really can't tell the difference in accuracy, but would the more "revised" version make a difference on game?

[fecmech]

I'm not sure what you mean by older and newer. My 358429 4 cav from 1970 has a round grease groove and a front drive band that is more narrow than the middle band and drops at .356"(front band). Front band is approx .104", middle is .145 and base is .120. It has shot very well for me over 40 years.

[Big Boomer]

Older S&W M27 revolvers had shorter cylinders than the newer M19s, M66s, and L frames (586 & 686). Lyman shortened Keith's original design in both the front driving band and the nose so the cast boolits would fit the shorter cylinders. I have a like-new M27 made in the early 1970s (nickel plated, 5" barrel) and the original Keith boolits would protrude from the end of the cylinder when seated in .357 brass. Lyman just accommodated the shorter cylinders. 'Tuck (as in Kentuck)

[GP100man]

Let me clarify Davids question, A pic is worth alot of typing !!

The boolits on the left are from an older Lyman SC 358429.
The boolit on the rite are from a much younger mould .

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_1181.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/102_1181.jpg.html)

[fecmech]

Wow, what a difference in the front drive band! My "Keith" is like your middle bullet there. Lyman probably chipped the cherry on the front drive band and just ground it off and kept making molds.

[ironhead7544]

IIRC, Elmer designed the bullet with an oversized front band so the bullet would center better in the cylinder. The front band was not supposed to be sized. I heard the reason Lyman changed the design is that the later ones are easier to make. Elmer also designed bullets for the M27 with a shorter nose. Dont remember the number.

[GLL]

The bullet on the left is an old IDEAL 358429 with the wide front band. On the right is an IDEAL 358439. The center is the 45 2.1 design.
http://www.fototime.com/EE931141944BC3F/standard.jpg

This is another old IDEAL bullet with a somewhat narrower front band.
http://www.fototime.com/494CFD9D922421B/orig.jpg

IDEAL / LYMAN produced designs of this bullet that were all over the map !

Jerry

[Beerd]

IDEAL / LYMAN produced designs of this bullet that were all over the map !

Jerry

and they all will make a hole in whatever you shoot them at.
..

[Bigslug]

I've got a Lyman from last year's production run that drops .358" on the two rear bands and .354" on the front. While it seems to shoot OK, the annoying thing about this - since I crimp over the front driving band - is that I can't effectively lube the crimp groove because the lube oozes forward through the reduced diameter during sizing.

Probably going to fire up my new NOE RG4 version this coming weekend, which should neatly solve this little issue.

[PS Paul]

I like that 358439 HP! Like the middle 45 2.1 even better!

Yeah, I too have noticed some of these annoying little changes to the molds. I just scored a 358439 HP on fleabay a few weeks back. It is circa 1957 (dated on the instruction pamphlet and the box kinda leads me to that conclusion too....) and is exactly as GLL's on the right of his photo. Good times!
PSP

[GP100man]

My brand new NOE 358429 5C ,sized to 358

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_1250-1.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/102_1250-1.jpg.html)