sleeper powder for the 308

[Bullshop]

I recently had some odds and ends of 30 cal boolits to clean out of my shop so decided to take a break from the grind and spend a day shooting them up.
Likewise I have for many years had several cans of Herculies Blue Dot powder that I have been reaching over or arround to get to the slower 2400 or faster Unique. This time I thought since I am just trying to burn up extra stuff I will use the Blue Dot.
This is far from fresh powder because it is Herculies brand and I had it before I was married 24 years ago.
I started with a Lyman 311291 and 15gn BD. The resulting 100 yards groups were very satisfying so I tried to refine the load a bit. At 17gn it really seemed to click. 10 shot strings would have most clustering closely with a couple outsiders going to maybe 2 moa.

This was working so good I thought to try a favorite boolit design for the 308. Its a mold Walt Melander made for me many years ago. It is in his DD design with very short shank with two heavy drive bands and long bore ride nose with the DD ring at the olgive origin. It will go about 190gn with GC in an alloy that will yeald about a BHN-13 air cooled.
This NEI boolit took to the 17gn BD load like a duck to water. Clusters at 100 yards were good enough to please anyone shooting any boolits or bullets from a run of the mill 308. This one is a Stevens 200 with a A&B barrel from Midway.
With the rifle printing about 2" high at 100 yards I started in at 200 yards. What I saw when approaching the target was very satisfying. I was shooting about the same group size at 200 yards as at 100 yards. Using a mil dot scope the second dot from center put me on at 200 yards.
That worked so well I commenced in at 300 yards. At 300 it was the 4th dot from center that put me on the money.
It was rather windy and my bench set up was far from ideal but at 300 yards this load was staying at about 1.3 moa or about 4" groups c to c .
The Blue Dot powder seems to meter quite well for a flake powder and throwing charges I never feel any hint of a hang up where I would have to back up the handle and try again, just a single smooth stroke per charge. Checking with a scale showed very consistent charges.
Wow who would of thought that for all these years BD powder on my shelf just seemed to be in the way of reaching for the just right powders. It seemed not fast enough for some loads or not slow enough for others. I still have about three pounds of the old Herculies to burn up so I suspect I will be burning more of it in a 308 this summer.

[badbob454]

any signs of pressure in the 17 gr loads seems it might peak fast with heavy boolits and a fast powder , if not i have some blue dot to burn up also ill await your response first and will start at 15 gr just for the sake of safety , i have a nice 190 gr boolit ill use , think it is a lee boolit

[runfiverun]

dan modify your steel powder loads slightly for the blue dot.
I modified blue dot loads slightly for the steel powder when I started using it and couldn't find any data.

[Bullshop]

No sign of abnormally high pressure, in fact pressure seems moderate. This NEI boolit has very little bearing surface for its length/weight.
Another such as an LBT LFN design that is almost all bearing surface like a Loverin design may give higher pressure.
Also I was using Lotak lube which is a kind of super lube so another lube may also change the pressure.
The 17gn charge didnt seem like a max load its just where groups came together.
Blue Dot is slightly faster than 2400 or maybe I should say that BD and 2400 go in order of burn rate for the Herculies/Alliant powder line.
Since 21gn 2400 seems to be the normal weight range used in a 308 case for boolits in thisweight range then 17gn of a slightly faster powder seems about right. My shooting results seem to bear that out.

[Bullshop]

runfiverun
You are right on track with that idea. I shoot 21gn Alliant Steel with the same boolits. It had become a favorite but may now be challenged. The big difference is that the BD meters so well from my RCBS measurer but the Steel is so poor in that reguard.

[454PB]

BlueDot is one of my favorites, I use it in everything from 9mm Luger to 45/70.

[leadman]

I also used a lot of BD for rifle and pistol loads. The last #4 container of BD I purchased a couple of years ago is quite different from my previous lots.
Others have noticed the change also along with Alliant. Alliant published a warning against using BD with the 357mag and a 125gr bullet and any loads in the 41 mag.
I had to reduce my loads due to pressure signs and the accuracy is not what it was.
So when you run out of the Hercules BD be very cautious and work your loads back up.

[badbob454]

wow thanks for the speedy reply i will work up a load for my friends 308 , he is just starting to get into reloading at 50 years old , / my favorite powder is wc820 bought 3 8 lb jugs when they were 56 dollars now have about 9 pounds left its my go to for my 45 colt and 454 casull loads . i have shot 17 gr. of it in my 30-06 , with no signs if pressure the primers are well rounded and just a dent for the primer strike no cratering . doesn't seem to be position sensitive and leaves no residue in the barrel , my batch burns like aa#9/ i used blue dot in my 7.62x25 cz52 /38 spec. 357 mag . and 44 mag works well and uses very little powder for the power output

[Bullshop]

Thanks for the caution leadman I was wondering about that.

[badbob454]

dan modify your steel powder loads slightly for the blue dot.
I modified blue dot loads slightly for the steel powder when I started using it and couldn't find any data.
i dont understand , steel powder? and how do you modify loads for steel powder with blue dot , maybe i missed something?.... maybe steel shot?

[Bullshop]

I think what was ment is to use the Steel results/data as a sorta gauge. Knowing that Steel is slower burning than BD would indicate that going to a faster powder (BD) would require reducing the charge accordingly.
It kinda gives an idea of the charge area to look at or expect to end up in. Nothing conclusive just a rough idea.

[badbob454]

oh ok i dont rember steel as a powder , but there are so many out there , thanks for the clarification , and ill use leadmans advise to start low and work up thanks for a good idea

[badbob454]

oh there it is ... aa#9 is in the middle of BD and Steel ( looking at a powder burn rate chart)

[RayinNH]

madsenshooter speaks highly of Blue Dot in his Krag quite often. I would guess it's his "go to" powder...Ray

[dougader]

I know a guy that shoots 223 Rem with BD and swears by it. Says he's never seen a cleaner bore after 200 rounds shooting at p-dogs. One swab of Hoppes #9 through the barrel and it's clean as a whistle.

[sundog]

And a good replacement for BD is VV N105.

[runfiverun]

Bob when we do what we do we have to learn to use data from wherever we can get it.
Dan had already worked some good loads with steel powder [and a bunch of others too]
I knew that because we have shared some steel data in other threads.
and it gives him some perspective on where to start.
other powders like H-110 even has some good rifle loads.
I am not a huge fan of H-110 but I can use that data and xxxx data to get started with xxxx and other powders for some really good cast rifle loads.

[Bullshop]

H-110 is in the right burn rate area to be usefull for mid range cast rifle loads but I dont like it because the grain size is so small it doesnt use up enough of the case volume. Also I believe a fine ball powder like h-110 is harder to get good consistent ignition for this application. I know for sure it will flow out a primer hole if the primer is let out so wonder if it plugs the flash hole at times to further complicate consistent ignition.
The flake powders on the other hand if in the same burn rate area take up far more case volume and are far easier to get good ignition in this application. Most of the flake powders are intended for shotgun and so are intended for these type pressures where as h-110 and other ball powders like aa#9 are intended for higher pressure and ignite more consistently at those intended pressures.
That is one reason I like Alliant Steel so well. It is very close in burn rate to 2400 but being a flake type powder gives a higher load density for the same charge weight and ignition is very good because it is being used at or very near its intended pressure.
The fly in that ointment is that Steel meters poorly from a powder measurer.
The nice thing about BD is even though it has the good qualities of the flake powder it meters very well. That one I cant figure out why two flake powders of about the same flake size will not act the same in a powder measurer.

[geargnasher]

Don't forget about Herco!

Gear

[DIRT Farmer]

I have some blue dot from trying to get 10 ga loads, it worked fine till it got cold, then it was sometimes the Mag 10 would cycle or might not cycle. When I went to steel it works fine. Have you noticed any problems with shooting it in cold conditions in a rifle?

[uscra112]

Darn, now I've gottsta go find some Blue Dot. Just when I was getting comfortable with AA#9.

[Bullshop]

"" Have you noticed any problems with shooting it in cold conditions in a rifle?""
What do you mean by cold conditions? I only just started using BD by chance a couple days ago. Temp was maybe about 30.

[runfiverun]

blue dot starts to lose velocity in cold temperatures.
if it didn't they would not have invented steel powder.
notice they are both made by alliant

[dougader]

blue dot starts to lose velocity in cold temperatures.
if it didn't they would not have invented steel powder.
notice they are both made by alliant

I have heard of reverse sensitivity being a problem with BD, meaning that in extreme cold the pressures can spike and cause blwn cases, etc.

I've never fired BD in weather cooler than about 35 degrees F and have never seen the problem. I have, however, experienced high pressure when I absent-mindedly switched to magnum primers when my max load was worked up with standard loads.

For those looking to try BD, be aware that my comments and experiences (as well as a couple other posters in this thread) refer to the old Hercules BD powder. You may not have the same results with the newer Alliant Blue Dot.

I have actually decided to switch to AA#9 when my Hercules BD is used up.

[Willbird]

I like BD in 45 acp with a 230 grain bullet, one of the top performers in the Lyman manual as I recall ?? Confirmed, looked it up and it is the top performer with that bullet weight.

[Bullshop]

Boy this thread kinda took a turn from the OP and title.

[runfiverun]

I think they all do at some point around here..:lol:

[Bullshop]

No matter! In just a moment there will be something new to catch our attention. I did put the 308 Win/ 17gn BD load in my pet loads journal. I guess thats why we come here to gather little bits and pieces to take home and build our own monster.

[runfiverun]

information is priceless I keep a note book handy for when I come on the sight so I can make notes of stuff like this.
you never know when things will become tight or when you'll find a jug of powder somewhere for a good price.
I like having options.

[Camba]

I reload just about everything I own with Blue Dot. I read some write up the RockRaab (from HuntChat forum) about reduced loads using Blue Dot and then I experiment of how low or how high can I go. I use it with regular jacketed bullets and with boolits too.
I have used it in my 7mm-08 Rem from 16.0 gr (~1980fps) to 24.0gr (~2600+ fps hot load).

7-30 Waters:
Today I tested some 18.4 and 19.0 gr in my 7-30 Waters contender, getting velocities of 2020fps and 2044fps (max). 19.0 grains with 130 LEE cast gc boolit gives me 2130fps (max) and 15.o gr gives me 1850fps.

[Bullshop]

What was the bullet weight in the 7mm08?
Are you using Herculies or Alliant?

[runfiverun]

rocky is a member here also.
I haven't seen him for a while though.