I am thinking of getting a Rossi circuit judge

[Neo]

Hi I am thinking of buying a Rossi circuit judge rifle in 45 Long Colt/410 dose any know if they are worth a look and are they any good for target and hunting or should I look at getting a 45/70 lever action.any help will be appreciated.

[rintinglen]

I'd pass on the combo gun, but the 44 magnum version is very interesting.
Re the 45/410 version. What I found in very limited (One cylinder) shooting of 45 LC is that it is woefully inaccurate. I'd get the .44 mag version, where I wedded to the type, but I think that a 45-70 Marlin, Browning, or Rossi would be much the better choice.
Provided that you reload your own ammo, you can run anywhere from 45 Colt velocities to nearly .458 velocities, in the 45/70. You can not do that with a Circuit Judge.

Ranch Dog, one of our contributors here and formerly the purveyor of a line of excellent custom cast boolit molds, wrote an interesting review on the .44 Magnum Circuit Judge.

[northmn]

Wahtever makes your putter swing as they say, but the Circuit Judge is a sorry 45 Colt rifle and an even sorrier 410. I admit my response is some what opinionated, but in this case that particular weapon kind of brings it out in me.

DP

[runfiverun]

from what I have heard of them I think I would also pass.
pretty cool deal, but it just ain't right.
i'd maybe look at the 44 or just a 45 or the lever gun.

[sthwestvictoria]

I would go the 45/70 in preference.

Although this was an overloading event, those cylinder walls look pretty thin to me:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?164579-Circiut-Judge-Ka-Boom

[northmn]

I have had 45-70's on and off and had a Cowboy version. Kicked like heck with anything over BP equivalent loads. Even so, when I see what some are doing with 45 Colts in lightweight rifles I expect it would not be that bad. Heavy loads in a 45 Colt are really pretty moderate in the 45-70. For deer the 322 grain Gould mold is pretty effective, and really does not need to be pushed that hard. I used one with a BP load and it was quite effective. That is the beauty of the 45-70, you can wither use black or smokeless.

DP

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Just an Ol'Coot's opinion here, but although they might be "cool" to look at they will be questionable as to fullfulling any serious use other then possibly up close and personal.

If a person wanted to get the combo in a handgun for upclose and personal things like snakes - 2 or no legged, - well maybe ????? if it was a Smith and NOT a Tarus, but forget the the long gun and buy something like the Marlin or maybe a TC and get something for your money.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[NVScouter]

I saw a 45LC only version that shot pretty good. I think there is 454 version too. I like my Puma 92 for the same $ and feels/shoots better

[kir_kenix]

I have shot a couple hundred rounds thru the circuit judge. I really, really tried to get it to shoot, but I admit I met more then my match and failed miserably. 4" groups at 50 yards were considered good groups with this particular example. .410's patterned horribly. It's a super neat idea, but I was not impressed. Maybe the .45 colt only, or .44 mag examples shoot better...I've never seen one.

My wife did fall in love with the little carbine tho. She keeps looking at the stainless one everytime we go to Scheels. Eventually I will probably get the oppertunity to wring out another one. Hopefully the next one shoots better then my friends example.

[Rusty Goose]

To get into it a bit further, the .45/.410 thing is a gimmick. Think about the cylinder that would hold a 3" .410 shell, then drop a .45 Colt cartridge in it. The .452 bullet has to travel an inch and a half unsupported with the gasses flowing past it until it eventually engages the rifling at the forcing cone at some cock-eye angle. I haven't fired the "Circuit Judge", but I have fired the "Judge", and the .45 bullet was tumbling at 25 yds. The .410 pattern was close to 24" at 7 yards.

[jh45gun]

To get into it a bit further, the .45/.410 thing is a gimmick. Think about the cylinder that would hold a 3" .410 shell, then drop a .45 Colt cartridge in it. The .452 bullet has to travel an inch and a half unsupported with the gasses flowing past it until it eventually engages the rifling at the forcing cone at some cock-eye angle. I haven't fired the "Circuit Judge", but I have fired the "Judge", and the .45 bullet was tumbling at 25 yds. The .410 pattern was close to 24" at 7 yards.
Must be the short barrel and no choke because I shoot an Encore with a 45/410 12 inch barrel and at 25 yards I got inch and a half groups with it and with the choke in and shooting 410 i consistently have killed every grouse I shot under 25 yards. Not having a choke for the 410 might be the key.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Could also be a huge lack of quality with Rossi or the Taurus.

Plus the fact that it is really a hookie idea!

CDOC

[jh45gun]

You know what they say about opinions! I have not seen any lack of quality in the two guns I own and any gun manufacture can make a lemon once in a while I could start on Ruger if you want to continue this! I know that Ruger makes some good guns but they also have let a lot of guns out of the factory they should never have! Those Rossi Model 92 Lever guns seem pretty darn popular and about the only issues I have heard on them are shooting high or the stock finish. Nothing about the 92 being a bad gun. Yes I had to send my Ranch Hand in and I got good customer service. As far as a hokie idea I seem to remember way back in the past revolver carbines.

[jh45gun]

Also Coot I trust Ranch Dogs Opinion pretty well and if he made a forum dedicated to Rossi guns that is good enough for me. I know your entitled to your opinion but the Taurus and Rossi guns have a good hold on the market they must be doing something right. My Model 85 snub nose in 38 special is great to carry and is accurate.

[Rusty Goose]

My comment wasn't meant to disparage the quality of manufacturing of the Taurus (or Rossi), I like the companies products. My comment was about the specific weapon not being particularly good idea.

jh45gun- I think you are correct, very short barrel, no choke, just a gimmick. That being said, I wish I was the guy who marketed the package of six .45 Colt rounds with six .410 shells and called it the Jury. The Judge and Jury, beautiful marketing idea anyway.

[jh45gun]

I think the Judge is at best a personal defense weapon for short ranges but I shot my friends 3 inch barrel one with three inch 410 and 45 Colt and at close ranges it performed admirably. Looking at the Rossi web page it does not mention a choke tube for the Circuit Judge and that I think is the problem why it performs so poorly with 410. Like I said with my Encore barrel I have killed over 15 grouse with it and never lost a bird.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Speaking directly of the Taurus as to quality but to both as to the hooky idea, When a counter man at a local store makes the comment that the Taurus is a pretty good gun, "after it comes back" from Taurus that doesn't speak well for the product line.

Then being out with a friend when he shot his Judge for the first time and having it lock up within the first cylindar or two, after which he returns it for a refund at which time he was given a second new one in exchange only to have this second unit to again lock up. Well ---------------

Yes it is my opinion, but if I was to buy into the hooky 45/410 wheel gun idea it would be nothing less then a S&W and even there it is still a hooky idea.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[jh45gun]

Like I said Coot you want me to start in on the bad Rugers I have had? Yet most of them are good guns same with Taurus/Rossi they are not all bad. Then we have the folks that have complained about S&W and Remington/Marlin. I think modern guns do not have the attention to them the older guns did they cannot they would cost to much to build so a few bad ones get through no matter who makes them. Some complain about Taurus or Rossi having machining marks well they are not the only company that does most of them do these days.

As far as your counter man I have been frequenting gun shops for years and have heard some really stupid comments from guys in gun shops that should know better. Just because some one works in a gun shop does not make them a gun expert.

[BlueOx]

I've had a stainless .45/.410 Circuit Judge for about three years now. I don't hunt, but I plan to get a buck with it eventually - if you eat meat you should have to do the dirty work at least once in your life, right? I was disappointed with the fit and finish, but with a little lock-tight and a few coats of black lacquer, it's quite pretty and the little shields and sight rail don't loosen up anymore. I also had problems with accuracy, and didn't really like the sights, so I got a low-mount backup shotgun ghost-ring sight from XS - which made the sight picture just excellent for both .45 and .410. It also made lining up the sights faster, and made Kentucky-windage A LOT easier. If you plan to get this sight, you must cut the sight rail in half so that the ring is at the center of the receiver for proper sight picture. Also, use the larger ring that comes with it - the smaller ring is just an annoyance.

This is a gun that compromises .45 accuracy and .410 spread for the advantage of being able to fire both, and index rounds quickly and easily. It cannot be held to the same standards as a weapon that is meant to fire only .45 slugs, or only .410 shells - It is a do-all gun, best at nothing. That said, cowboy loads are quite accurate in this gun, especially Fiocchi. I experimented with hand-loading a round specifically designed for this gun, and found that a copper-plated (not true FMJ) 230 grain ball projectile (.45 ACP style bullet) fired from spent cowboy load brass is extremely accurate. I must stress that this must be a spent case that has been factory crimped previously, but not crimped when re-loaded. New brass wont reliably hold the bullet under recoil, and crimping - even lightly - results in total garbage accuracy. I am very confident that this round will be great for hunting. It should have plenty of penetration, flatter trajectory, and the thin copper coating should allow the bullet to deform upon impact more than a true FMJ.

This can only be used as a serious gun if you are a serious shooter that can hand-load, and put the time into finding out what works. When using birdshot I strongly suggest you use copper plated Federal .410 handgun loads, and ALWAYS use the choke. Although, I must say that I have used 3 inch Winchester #4 birdshot for skeet, and I was nailing them just as easily as my friend was with his 12 gauge - at some pretty long ranges too, probably as far as 40 yards. The choke is not as important with 000 buckshot, but it does help.

To sum it up: It's pretty much a novelty gun, but with a little work and the correct ammo, it is a very capable well-rounded rifle/shotgun/revolver thingy.

Oh, and DO NOT use a sling with this gun. A sling will cause the cylinder to rub against your body, moving it around constantly while you walk. This will cause accelerated mechanical wear - get a scabbard holster. I removed the rear sling mount and made a kinda "foregrip" out of nylon strap for the front sling mount. This allows it to fold flat so it can still fit in the scabbard. It's also looped so I can fit my hand partially through it and grip the wooden fore-end lightly while still being able to pull the stock tight to my shoulder. This makes my aim noticeably steadier. Also, do not put a scope on a Circuit Judge! I've seen pictures and videos of people that did this, it is just a stupid idea. It will make .410 nearly impossible to use, and .45's aren't accurate enough out of this gun to warrant the use of a scope. Actually, why would anyone put a scope on a .45 colt weapon anyway? It's a slow moving pistol round with a poor trajectory, not an extremely accurate rifle round with a nice flat trajectory... ignorance and stupidity is just far too common in America today.

As for the Circuit Judge locking up, I suspect that is due to poor quality .410 shells. I had this happen a couple times with Federal shells. Federal's consistency of quality is not the best, some shells have to be jammed into the cylinder with quite a bit of force, and I found that the ones that caused the lock up had deformed the brass upon firing.

P.S. To anyone that thinks the Judge handgun (not Circuit Judge) is just a gimmick: remember, it is not meant to have a tight spread. The gun is not meant for hunting, it is designed as (and marketed as) a close-range self-defense weapon. Many people call it a stupid useless gun, simply because - rediculously - they expect that it should perform like a full-size smooth-bore shotgun. It also has the huge advantage of INDEXING ROUNDS! You can have both .45 and .410 loaded and switch to the round that meets your current defensive needs at a moment's notice. You must consider all the variables in anything in life before you form your opinion, otherwise you're merely going on preconception and/or personal preference. Think about it, even with the Federal 2.5 inch 000 buck, that's four .36 caliber balls per pull of the trigger. 4 projectiles, multiplied by 5 cylinders, divided by 1.5 seconds (to empty the gun) equals any bad guy you are pointing at - not even using the sights - has up to TWENTY holes in him with virtually no chance to get behind cover or fire back in time. Even a Glock 17 can't compete with that at close range. The Glock can only fire seventeen projectiles of similar lethality, and it takes seventeen aimed trigger-pulls to do so. This would also take significantly more skill and time than the Judge. Use three-inch and you've got EIGHT projectiles over the Glock, and it still only takes 1.5 seconds, maybe two seconds if you can't handle the increased recoil. Do not underestimate the Judge, it's like a fly swatter for humans; if one is in your hand and you're close enough, that thing doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell.

My first gun was a Marlin 1895G in .45-70, yeah I started off with a "cannon complex." It was FAR better quality than the Circuit Judge - for less money (but not stainless). If you plan to use any .45-70 gun, you have to hand-load or have a lot of disposable income, as two dollars a round was far too expensive for me to continue owning it. I wish I had looked into hand-loading before I sold it.

I also have a .45 Ranch Hand. It's lots of fun, and nobody can shoot it but me! Anyone else that's tried to use it finds it too strange, awkward, and intimidating to be comfortable with it - or even hit a single target. :) I'm going to get a full-length stock for it and have a short-barreled rifle using the pistol-to-rifle loophole - no tax stamp or class three license required! <edit> okay, I just watched a Hickok45 video and he said you DO need the tax stamp... I've looked all over the internet before, and every bit of information said it was a legal loop-hole. It goes to reason that it's different from state to state, so I guess I have to go talk to my local gun shop owner. He knows everything about guns, so he'll know for sure.

[grampa243]

as far a big game goes it's not legal in some places to hunt with a .410/45 colt.

so you may want to check some hunting laws before you make your choise.

[Full Mold Jack]

Nice review BlueOx, thanks.

My CJ hosed lead all over the range when I first got it. After some invesigation I found the thread protector tube had a burr at the muzzle like it had been parted off with a crowbar.

After a little lapping with a dowel it now shoots minute of beer can and is a whole lot of fun.

[joec]

Now I am a Taurus/Rossi fan since I own a couple Rossi rifles the 92 in 45 Colt and Rio Grande in 45-70 as well as currently looking for a 92 in 454 Casull. I own 3 Taurus auto loader pistols and love all 3 of them. Now with that said I would avoid the combo guns with perhaps the exception of something like the Wizard line or what ever they call it. At least with that one you change the barrel and action in one piece, though I have no need for a single shot anything. 45 Colt though can be a pretty heavy load in a Rossi 92 even a bit stronger than a Ruger.

[joec]

Now I am a Taurus/Rossi fan since I own a couple Rossi rifles the 92 in 45 Colt and Rio Grande in 45-70 as well as currently looking for a 92 in 454 Casull. I own 3 Taurus auto loader pistols and love all 3 of them as well as a Raging Bull DA in 454 casull. Now with that said I would avoid the combo guns with perhaps the exception of something like the Wizard line or what ever they call it. At least with that one you change the barrel and action in one piece, though I have no need for a single shot anything. 45 Colt though can be a pretty heavy load in a Rossi 92 even a bit stronger than a Ruger.

[dale1948]

If you get the Judge, don't shoot 3" 410s. My brother's Judge jammed. The manual did not say to limit 410s to 2 3/4". Dale

[prsman23]

It has something to do with the type of ammo used in the 3" shells. Don't use European 3". Winchesters and such should be good to go.

[double8]

Before you buy, check out...."Rossi Rio Grande 45-70-Done with Rossi/Taurus/Braztech" in this forum.

[1Shirt]

Guess my question would be why would you want the thing to start out with?
1Shirt!