Heeeeeeeere Piggypiggypiggy!

[TXGunNut]

Finally broke in my Ranch Dog 454-290 mould last weekend, lubed and installed gas checks this past week and tonight I located a virgin bag of Starline 45 Colt brass! Needless to say a suitable quantity of WW 296 was rounded up and tonight I have 20 test rounds all loaded up and ready for action, another 30 sized and ready for subsequent testing. Next weekend I'll try my new hunting load on paper, after that I'll be looking forward to some piggy smackdown!

[badbob454]

what is your load for this ? standard 45 colt or 454 casull pistol?

[TXGunNut]

It's a 4 5/8 Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. I have a RUGER BLACKHAWK/CONTENDER ONLY load of 21grs of 296 that is pretty awesome under a Hornady j-word, thot I'd try it under the RD boolit. It's air cooled 60/40 WW/PB for now, may rethink the boolit hardness after a few porcine encounters. The RBH is mainly a backup gun so it doesn't get much use. Used a sedate Universal load on a smallish hog with disappointing results a few months ago, decided to opt for a bit more horsepower.
Sorry about the caps, I'd rather not post that load because it's a bit warm for Colts and Colt clones.

[Lefty SRH]

I wanna see pictures of the HOGS! Need help? My .45 colt is ready to draw blood too!

[badbob454]

I understand i have a rugher super redhawk in 454 casull so i can fire that load also , i use the wc820 surp in mine its a aa#9 clone or same powder diff lot . works great in 357 -454 casull i even am working on a 308 load good stuff too bad it isnt available anymore , how sedate was the dissapointing round fps?, want to ...never went hog huntin . not close to my home..

[TXGunNut]

It was pretty sedate, BBG, 7.5 Universal under a Lyman 452424. Pretty sure it was under 800fps but my chrono hasn't seen the light of day in years. Put it this way, 27 grs of KIK FFFg was a big step up. As you may know the 21gr load is not a max Ruger load by some loading standards but it's all I want to shoot and curiously accurate with the Hornady J-word. Can't wait to touch a few off and see how they do. Still have plenty of the Hornaday loads I assembled in 97, BTW. :wink:
Have some pics from our December hunt somewhere in this section, Lefty. You may recall a very relaxed red piggie curled up next to my Ruger.

[Pilgrim]

Big Bro sent me an e-mail of a slightly oversize hog killed in/outside the town of Winter Haven, Fl. I don't know how to copy and paste the photos, but if you do a search on hog/pig and Winter Haven, Fl I suspect you'll find the photos. If you can't find them I'll try to cut and paste it (one of 'em) here. There were 3 photos total. How big? The e-mail said it's an estimated 1800 pounds. No, it doesn't look like a feral piggy either!

[Norbrat]

This it?

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f48/little-piggy-63890/

Lotsa folks seem to think it's a hoax.

[Pilgrim]

Yeah, that's it. The photo on the web site is clearer than the copies my brother sent. Looking at them real close I can see slight "gotchas" that didn't show in my e-mail. Not only is the size humongous (suspicious by itself) but the way the photos are posed make the risk of phonieness (is that a word?) much higher. Good catch!

[Norbrat]

Yeah, I'm always real suspicious when the mighty hunter is behind the animal in the pics; much better to put something in front, ie, a rifle, to get the true scale.

At least this one is real.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8526/8634064872_b630285a5a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/11260137@N07/8634064872/)

[x101airborne]

Here ya go.


668676686866869668706687166872668736687466875

[x101airborne]

6687666877668786687966880

[Freightman]

What do you do with a hog that big, he has to stink bad enough to choke a maggot :razz: the ones 101 shows is the size to kill and eat. IMHO

[Pilgrim]

I was wondering how something that big (assuming it's real) could remain hidden long enuf to get so big. I mean Fl is a bit more populated than say Wyoming, or... I guess if bigfoot can do it...

[TXGunNut]

What do you do with a hog that big, he has to stink bad enough to choke a maggot :razz: the ones 101 shows is the size to kill and eat. IMHO

Those big stinky ones are fun, and a lot less work. Smaller ones are fun too, worthy of the freezer space.
I've studied on that Pensacola pig too. It was a big piggie, just not 1800 lbs. I've seen (and even shot!) pigs in the 500 lb class and I know they get bigger.

[pls1911]

Cookin size for me is measured by a 5 gallon bucket...
If it fits, it gets a place on the smoker.

[TheGrimReaper]

I wanta hog hunt so bad! I wish we would finally get infested with wild boars here in S. Middle Tn.

[km101]

I wanta hog hunt so bad! I wish we would finally get infested with wild boars here in S. Middle Tn.


Be careful what you wish for! You might regret it. Here in Texas, feral hogs do Millions of dollars worth of damage to crops each year. And that not counting the cost of erosion and habitat damage. I had a good deer lease in Central Texas that was overrun by hogs in just 2 years. They pushed the deer almost completely out.
The landowner's cattle operation went from a profit to a loss in 3 years due to crop damage, hogs eating cattle feed, and even due to hogs eating newborn calves. (hogs are omnivores)

Having said that; hogs ARE fun to hunt and make some good eating after being on the smoker for several hours! I love to take 1/2 of a 60-75 lb hog and put it on the smoker for about 8 hrs. It's REALLY good eatin'.

[dragonrider]

I wanta hog hunt so bad! I wish we would finally get infested with wild boars here in S. Middle Tn.

I hear that, Mass is woefully lacking in wild pig population also. Of course in this damn fool state they propably would not let us hunt them anyway.

[TXGunNut]

What km101 said! You really don't want feral hogs because of their negative impact on hunting and agriculture. My brother sees more hog pics than deer on his game cam, ratio is probably 3-4 to 1. Because of their remarkable ability to breed and adapt they are nearly impossible to manage as a game animal without a concerted effort.
Yes, they're fun to hunt and I prefer wild pork over most meats but we'd be better off with a much smaller population of them.

[Fenring]

Couple i have taken.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000676a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000726.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000692.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000678.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/gpigs2012/P1010360.jpg

[TXGunNut]

Couple i have taken.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000676a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000726.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000692.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Gpigs2011/P1000678.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/gpigs2012/P1010360.jpg

Nice piggies! I enjoyed your thread on this subject awhile back. I'm guessing you've heard we can use helicopters to hunt hogs here in TX. Bike looks like more fun. From what I've seen some areas down under have a worse feral hog problem than we do.
Nicely done, good hunting!

[DougGuy]

TXGunNut did you ever get to print your load on paper? I have almost the same pistol you have except mine is an old model vaquero that has been reamed to .4525" and Taylor throated. It shoots beautifully and it has a love for anything 300gr and above it seems. My pet loads are 22gr of H110 or 296 for the 340 grainers and 22.2gr for the 300s. Recoil is severe but accuracy is really good and those loads punch paper right on top of the front sight @25yds, I'm looking to get in some pig hunts here in North Carolina soon. Probably more bullet than any hog around here can handle but you never know what you will run into and we do have plenty of black bears to boot.

[TXGunNut]

No, Doug. Life and yardwork keep getting in the way. Rather frustrating. Have a NIB 40 yr old SAA that I need to break in w/ BP loads as well. Mebbe next weekend.

[jm423]

Airborne, hang on to those gals that are out there peeling that hog! That kind is scarce. To Tennesee and Mass--if you want to come to my place and trap some for export; if only the legalities weren't involved. Texas Parks and Wildlife folks say there are two classes of landowners in Texas-those with wild hogs and those that are going to have wild hogs. I aim to minimize the population as much as I can, (Pun intended)

[DougGuy]

No, Doug. Life and yardwork keep getting in the way. Rather frustrating. Have a NIB 40 yr old SAA that I need to break in w/ BP loads as well. Mebbe next weekend.

Oh yeah on the yardwork. I built some more raised beds for our back yard gardening and stuck the leftover wood in CL, ended up selling and building 4 beds for people that wanted them.

I read one of your threads while back about using a softer alloy WFN GC for hunting, and what you said made sense so I have some boolits coming from another forum member that helped me out, gonna give that recipe a try. Slightly less pressure and velocity than the hog loads, if it works out I will have 4 good hunting loads that hit same point of aim at hunting distances for a short barrel Vaquero. Not bad for old eyes and fixed sights.

[x101airborne]

Airborne, hang on to those gals that are out there peeling that hog! That kind is scarce. To Tennesee and Mass--if you want to come to my place and trap some for export; if only the legalities weren't involved. Texas Parks and Wildlife folks say there are two classes of landowners in Texas-those with wild hogs and those that are going to have wild hogs. I aim to minimize the population as much as I can, (Pun intended)

I am not a prideful man, but dang those are some women, aint they?!
I went and saw my wifes grandparents this last weekend. They wanted to hear all about the hunting and canning and fieldcraft and bullet casting and so on. I took em some pickled red beets and some of my saurkraut and deer sausage and so on along with some vegetables from our garden. When they were leaving, the grandmother hugged me real tight and said "Thank you for taking care of my family. You are a hell of a man." You dont get that respect from someone who lived through two world wars, a depression, countless other wars, recessions, two husbands, and so on without it really making an impression. When I leave this dear Earth, my legacy is something for the books. I will look down with pride. I will put my kids and wife at the top of my list of accomplishments for sure.

[41mag]

101,

I'm with you on the family thing for sure. When my wife and I got together she was pure city, and I have gotten most all of it out of her. LOL

My only daughter, unfortunately for her she was born a girl. LOL I raised her to be self sufficient and stand up for herself. When she was in school her boyfriends were intimidated by her hunting and fishing as she put most of them to shame, and still does for that matter.

Both her and the wife will now grab pans, knives, paper, and tape when game hits the yard at the farm. It goes straight from the critter to the freezer in less than half an hour at most. The grandson's are now my priority, well that and the wife. She has finally decided after 25yrs of politely nudging, to get out with me and shoot some hogs. I told her I simply cannot be everywhere and they get by me more often than not. So who knows, maybe this weekend or one coming up she might get her first.

As for the inlaws and such, yep I get the same from mine. It was a bit rocky at first since I was taking their "baby girl" and I had been previously married. But it only took a short while for them to realize I was in it for the long haul, and was taking good care of her.

GunNut,
Keep up the work and take a bit of time to yourself and test those loads.

[TXGunNut]

I read one of your threads while back about using a softer alloy WFN GC for hunting, and what you said made sense so I have some boolits coming from another forum member that helped me out, gonna give that recipe a try. Slightly less pressure and velocity than the hog loads, if it works out I will have 4 good hunting loads that hit same point of aim at hunting distances for a short barrel Vaquero. Not bad for old eyes and fixed sights. -DougGuy


I'm flattered but I'm afraid you have me confused with another member. I've only killed one hog with a CB from a handgun and it was an ACWW PB Keith-style boolit. I was quite frankly disappointed with the boolit's performance as it took two good hits between the eyes to anchor this piggy. Boolit would have done fine for a heart/lung shot on must any game but this little guy was spoiling for a fight and wouldn't give me an ear or broadside shot. He's in the freezer now so I guess it worked OK.


70303

[TXGunNut]

GunNut,
Keep up the work and take a bit of time to yourself and test those loads. -41mag

Will do, hope to slip out for awhile tomorrow before taking Mom to dinner.
Oh, and GunNut is another member. When I came up with that handle I was over on TFL and there weren't many "GunNut"s over there. Guess that's why I feel at home here. :wink:

[Rattus58]

I was wondering how something that big (assuming it's real) could remain hidden long enuf to get so big. I mean Fl is a bit more populated than say Wyoming, or... I guess if bigfoot can do it...The biggest pig I shot was about 250 pounds and I raised a wild pig that scaled 350 pounds... 250 is huge, 350 is already humungous for a feral... but Babbles could lose herself in the yard (an acre of growth mostly) so its understandable how they can "disappear" in my mind. These two I'm talking about are reversionary pigs... meaning that they are looking a lot like the original russian/european boars types... not your barnyard variety... A 500 pound pig of any persuasion is approaching to me epic proportion and I'd hate to meet one it thinking I had bad intentions.. :grin:

[Rick N Bama]

I wanta hog hunt so bad! I wish we would finally get infested with wild boars here in S. Middle Tn.

You might get your wish soon. Hogs do a lot of crop damage in Limestone County AL & I just about bet they're headed your way if they can get through the traffic in Huntsville:)

Rick

[TXGunNut]

Finally got to try out my new hunting load, looks like it's a keeper. That's five rounds, offhand @ 15 yds and it's a bit of a handful. Adjusted the sights and couldn't keep the next five together, can't seem to find that target. :wink: Wanted to shoot a group @ 25 yds but that will have to wait for another day.
Now all I need is a cranky piggy!

70388

[41mag]

Looks like you have the load for sure, now just get in some more practice and find a hog or 6. I have been working on one BIG boar that is hanging around our place up near Palestine. The first time I actually saw it I thought it was one of the leasers Angus that had got through the fence and into our pond. When it raised it's head I knew it wasn't no cow.

I have put out snares and had it three times, and three ruined snares using 1/8 cable. It made some very impressive cuts into the trees I had the snares anchored to with the cable so I am guessing it going 300 at least. I am hoping the wife will get a chance on him with the next full moon, he ain't stupid and knows when we're watching. I only have one shot of him on a game cam and he is standing WAY back just barely visible.

Good luck to you on yours, mine seem to have passed the word out that I am wanting to try out several new bullets and they are laying real low.

[DougGuy]

Finally got to try out my new hunting load, looks like it's a keeper.

Nice looking work. What's the recipe for those? Oldfart1956 cast some 300gr 452-300 for me and they will be here the weekend.

[DougGuy]

I read one of your threads while back about using a softer alloy WFN GC for hunting, and what you said made sense so I have some boolits coming from another forum member that helped me out, gonna give that recipe a try. Slightly less pressure and velocity than the hog loads, if it works out I will have 4 good hunting loads that hit same point of aim at hunting distances for a short barrel Vaquero. Not bad for old eyes and fixed sights. -DougGuy


I'm flattered but I'm afraid you have me confused with another member.

This is the post I was making reference to:


I'm also developing a hunting load for the RD 454-290 gr boolit, it utilizes a GC but I guess that feature will allow me to utilize a softer alloy.

How much difference is there between your RD boolit and the Lee C 452-300? They both use gas checks, both have a wide flat nose, correct? I want to say the Lee has .360" meplat, haven't gotten the boolits yet but I was looking for the really wide meplat as well.

[TXGunNut]

I stand corrected, DougGuy. I've been kicking this load around for awhile. It appears the 452-300 is possibly a couple thousandths smaller diameter and is a grease groove design. Good looking boolit! The RD boolit has a very similar meplat (.320) and is a Tumble Lube design. Lee may be able to supply the RD mould on a special order basis. Recipe FOR RUGERS OR OTHER STRONG ACTIONS ONLY is 21grs 296 in a Starline case with a WLP to get the party started. Much heavier than that and the cylinder pin, even with upgraded spring, goes for a walk. Alloy is 60% COWW, 40% PB and just enough tin to give me sharp edges, air cooled. I'm thinking about pure COWW or heat treating the above alloy.
Sorry about the yelling above, I'm involved in one silly lawsuit already and don't need any more.

[TXGunNut]

Looks like you have the load for sure, now just get in some more practice and find a hog or 6. I have been working on one BIG boar that is hanging around our place up near Palestine....

Good luck to you on yours, mine seem to have passed the word out that I am wanting to try out several new bullets and they are laying real low.

Agreed on more practice, shooting those thumper rounds is a bit more than I can enjoy. That fifth round (low/left) was about where I was coming apart. The Ruger is only a backup to a good rifle but once in a great while I may want to stop or at least turn a PO'd hog. I'm convinced big boars get that way being smart, also feel many cover a lot of ground every night and may be difficult to locate on any given night.
Good luck on that big bruiser, sounds like fun.

[DougGuy]

I never used a TL boolit, always just had the grease groove kind. What I am hoping will happen with the Lee 452-300 boolit, is that it will give a little more dwell time in the barrel, which causes the point of impact to be higher, because the muzzle flips upward just a tad more than a faster moving boolit which leaves the muzzle while it is at a lower degree of rise.

I have 3 full steam loads that hit dead on top of the front sight at about 50' a 340gr wfn gc, a 325gr wfn gc, and a 300gr Speer J word over 23gr, 24gr, and 22gr of H110 in that order. They hurt to shoot more than a couple full cylinders. These are hog loads.

What I am doing now is trying to come up with a downloaded softer alloy wfn for deer and bear, that would hit the same point of aim as the other loads. Fixed sight Vaquero, so no adjustable sights, have to do it all in the loads. I was able to get a 260gr swc gc over 17gr of 2400 ~almost~ up to the same point of impact, barely fell short, so I'm hoping upping boolit weight to 300gr will cause it to come on up and hit where the others are hitting, this would give me a reduced power load for deer that I wouldn't have to do a bunch of compensating with the sights to hunt with it, and it would make 4 loads that are good to go to the woods with, all hit the same place.

This was what I was working on when I read your post about the RD boolit and it being softer alloy. We will see if the theory holds any truth or not, I think I am so close. It's quite a neat challenge to see what you can accomplish without adjustable sights, it makes you dig in and put your thinking cap on and come up with something that works.

[x101airborne]

Sorry about the yelling above, I'm involved in one silly lawsuit already and don't need any more.

So, are we settling out of court? Lemme see, I will take...... (fill in the blank with anything but fertilizer in one hand and the other empty). JK
I hope it all turns out well in the end.

[TXGunNut]

So, are we settling out of court? Lemme see, I will take...... (fill in the blank with anything but fertilizer in one hand and the other empty). JK
I hope it all turns out well in the end.

I think it will turn out OK, all I have to do is help my attorney remember who's side he's on. Seems lawsuits are a game that attorneys love to play because no matter what, they win......I think I better get back on topic. :wink:

[bgokk]

Big Bro sent me an e-mail of a slightly oversize hog killed in/outside the town of Winter Haven, Fl. I don't know how to copy and paste the photos, but if you do a search on hog/pig and Winter Haven, Fl I suspect you'll find the photos. If you can't find them I'll try to cut and paste it (one of 'em) here. There were 3 photos total. How big? The e-mail said it's an estimated 1800 pounds. No, it doesn't look like a feral piggy either!

Check out this site http://www.naturetours.fr/index.php?lang=en
The hog was killed in Turkey! This pic has been on the internet for years. It has been reported as killed in several states in the U. S.

[DougGuy]

Hey TXGunNut, finally got some of the 300gr boolits from a forum member here who was nice enough to cast up some, I furnished the gas checks and he furnished the boolits and now we both are in business. These are from the Lee C 452-300 RF mold I think, and in Lyman #2 with the checks on them they weigh 320gr. I can scratch them with my fingernail and they feel about right, they are noticeably softer than Beartooth's offerings and I didn't put them up over max loads, I'm hoping for around 1100f/s from an original model Ruger Vaquero.

Hopefully I will get to the range this week and see how the first strings do, I put up some 5rd strings over different powders.

Gonna nickname these "Buck Busters."

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/20130527_182014a_zpsea9bd06b.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/20130527_182014a_zpsea9bd06b.jpg.html)

[TXGunNut]

Looks like a thumper to me! What kind of powder did you load?

[DougGuy]

I put up 5rds each over some older Hercules 2400, 17.0gr and 18.0gr which I will try the 17.0gr load first, I have reservations about the 18.0gr loads after weighing those and discovering they were closer to 320gr than 300gr.

5 more went over 18.0gr of LilGun, and another 5 went over 16.0gr of the newer Alliant 2400.

I have H110 here too but I usually use that when I want the pedal to the metal. Then they could be called "Boar Busters!"

[TXGunNut]

I have some Alliant 2400, haven't tried it in 45 Colt. No experience with the old Hercules 2400. My old manuals don't list loads for boolits that heavy so can't help you there. LilGun is a powder I'm hearing lots about but haven't tried or even done much research on.
Sounds like fun, looking forward to a range report.

[Gliden07]

I hear that, Mass is woefully lacking in wild pig population also. Of course in this damn fool state they propably would not let us hunt them anyway.

If we had them here they would let us hunt them! You would just have to buy an extra "STAMP" or endorsement on top of the price of your hunting licence!! Its all about squeezing every nickel out of you in MA!!

[DougGuy]

I put up 5rds each over some older Hercules 2400, 17.0gr and 18.0gr which I will try the 17.0gr load first, I have reservations about the 18.0gr loads after weighing those and discovering they were closer to 320gr than 300gr.

5 more went over 18.0gr of LilGun, and another 5 went over 16.0gr of the newer Alliant 2400.

I have H110 here too but I usually use that when I want the pedal to the metal. Then they could be called "Boar Busters!"

Finally got to shoot these loads, no chrony and I didn't take pics of the groups, all worked well except the 18gr of H2400 which opened the group up considerably.

The two that worked best were 17gr of H2400 which I think it would be safe in using Alliant 2400 at that charge weight, and 18gr of LilGun. This load grouped the best of the 4 loads tried, recoil was stiff but not severe, and brass came out of the cylinder fairly easy, no visible pressure signs other than what you would expect from a moderately stiff load.

In the past I had been shooting Beartooth boolits, and they use the blue magma lube. I had noticed that after a few rounds were fired, groups were good but began drifting off to the left a couple of inches and staying there until the barrel was cleaned then they would return to point of aim until I had fired another couple of groups. These 452-300 GC were lubed with Felix, and they stayed on center pretty well.

I think I found the deer load I was looking for, and this makes 4 good hunting loads that hit the same exact point of aim out of a fixed sight Vaquero. I can quit research now, I won..

[TXGunNut]

To confirm, the LilGun shot best? Been hearing a bit about it, may have to try some if I see it. Any guesstimates on the velocity?

[DougGuy]

Yep.. It did the best group in more than one load too. The Lee 300gr is a deer load that I wanted to slow down a bit and use a softer alloy, the Beartooth boolits are all hard cast, and loaded for hogs. All 4 of these loads shoot to the same exact point of aim in the Vaquero they were developed in. There is no sight compensation needed when switching loads. It took me months to wring this set of loads out of the load data I had, and that was my objective.

NOTE: These loads are for Original Model Ruger Vaquero, Super Blackhawk, Blackhawk, Thompson Contender, Freedom Arms, they are NOT SAFE for use in Ruger New Vaquero, New Model Flattop, Colt, S&W, or SAA clones!

Lee 452-300 RF GC (320gr) 18.0gr LilGun in Starline .45 Colt brass WLP primer. No chrony I am guesstimating 1120f/s.

Beartooth 325gr WFN GC 20.5gr LilGun in Starline .45 Colt brass WLP primer. No chrony I am guesstimating 1210f/s.

Beartooth 330gr WFN PB 20gr LilGun in Starline .45 Colt brass WLP primer. No chrony I am guesstimating 1190f/s.

Beartooth 340gr WFN GC 20gr LilGun in Starline .45 Colt brass WLP primer. No chrony I am guesstimating 1160f/s.

This is from Hornady, they use a 7.25" barrel in their data, mine is a 4 5/8" that has been taylor throated.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/RugerOnly45ColtDataLilGun_zpsb7f8391f.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/RugerOnly45ColtDataLilGun_zpsb7f8391f.jpg.html)

I had loaded and tested these with H110 as well, and had excellent results, still shot to the same point of aim, but the groups fired with LilGun were a bit tighter and better looking across the board, recoil was probably 10 to 15% less felt recoil than with H110, and it seemed the brass was not showing even the tiniest signs of pressure where H110 was a little stickier extracting only on a few rounds, not all. I would use H110 if it was all I had, but after working with LilGun in the charge weights I used, I think it has a slight edge and I will use it in the hunting loads. In .45 Colt I don't think it gets into the zone of barrel erosion that some claim with LilGun, I think you really gotta be stretching the limits and shooting a LOT of rounds for that to happen.