Winchester white box 7.62x39 has a .310 bullet

[Ohio Rusty]

I stopped by the Wally world on the way in to work yesterday looking for the possibility they might have gotten in some TulaAmmo 7.62x39. Picking have been pretty slim or none for weeks and weeks. There were 5 boxes of Winchester white box 7.62x39 FMJ's in the 40 round value pack - $30 each. That is an OK price - not great, but OK for that loaded round with reloadable brass to boot. So I bought my allotted 3 boxes. That gave me 120 rounds of ammo. Having more ammo is good. When I got off work, I slipped into that Wally world and the other two boxes were still on the shelf so I bought them also. They used to be $19.99 for the same box, (and 22's used to be 88 cents a box). Everything goes up I guess. It's nice to have the 200 rounds of 7.62x39 since nothing is available elsewhere.

Just for the heck of it I became curious to know since they are american made rounds and Winchester ... does the company load their common .308 bullet into that case or the larger .311 russian size?. Measuring the bullet right where the bullet enters the case it measures 310.5 on my digital scale. Measured in several times and all the same. Winchester also puts a hard stamped crimp around the edge of the case where it meets the bullet at the cannelure. So now I have real copper jacketed - lead core bullets, not copper coated steel like the russian rounds. After using those to sight in ....I may file the FMJ tip down on some of the boolits to where the lead begins and drill a hollow cavity into the end so I can have a decent hunting bullet. I need to find out if this FMJ bullet is fully copper encapsulated around the lead. If the bottom is lead exposed, then I can't make my HP's to play with. If it is fully copper, then I don't have the worry of the jacket coming loose from the lead core in the barrel. I need to add 'Call Winchester' to my to do list.

I'm happy to have the ammo .... It's a little pricey, but it will be good ammo to shoot/varmint hunt with. Lots of Coyotes around southeast Ohio that need to become target practice.

Ohio Rusty ><>

[dkf]

I had some .357sig WWB that the bullets measured .353" with a micrometer. They get a little overzealous with the crimping I figure. Have stopped buying Winchester for while to see if they get their act together. Have had enough bad experiences and seen others have enough bad experiences. It is pretty bad when they cannot even meet the quality of ammo that costs half the price.

[Wayne Smith]

You don't have to call Winchester, just pull one of the bullets. It's worth it to find out in reality.

[gew98]

filing or drilling out the nose of such soft jacketed lead core ammo for a "hunting" round is a silly and dangerous way to find out why you just don't do that. When you figure out why let us know.

[runfiverun]

you could Mexican match it with some hornady 310's if it's that bad.

[Ohio Rusty]

If I shave 2 or 3 grains off the tip of the bullet, it won't matter one wit. The varmints aren't going to care either. There is no hunting ammo available anywhere for this caliber, and with a soft copper jacket, it will peel back and open. People have benn hollowpointing bullets themselves for years ..... there are even kits made to hollowpoint your own bullets. There is one on Ebay as we speak. They are being shot from a bolt rifle, so there won't be any feed issues. Experimentation is how you discover what works and what works well ...... Just ask Elmer Keith and John Browning .......

I don't have a bullet puller ... I'll probably not buy one just for one bullet and never use the thing again.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[Hardcast416taylor]

The problem that has been found to happen occassionly when grinding the tip off of FMJ ammo is that the core can blow thru the jacket and leave the jacket stuck in the barrel. Be aware that this CAN happen.Robert

[blackthorn]

The problem that has been found to happen occassionly when grinding the tip off of FMJ ammo is that the core can blow thru the jacket and leave the jacket stuck in the barrel. Be aware that this CAN happen.Robert

Reread the OP!

[HangFireW8]

I don't have a bullet puller ... I'll probably not buy one just for one bullet and never use the thing again.
Ohio Rusty ><>

Rusty,

You don't need a puller for one bullet! Get a small hammer and tap around and around the crimp until it loosens up. You can drill a hole in a piece of wood for prying, and slip on a shell holder for more grip.

Yes it is 5 minutes of real work but worth it to KNOW.

HF

[Ohio Rusty]

Thanks Hangfire for the info. As Robert had said .... the jacket can come off. The boolit would be especially prone to that if the bottom of the jacket wasn't solid. I don't have any shell holders for this bullet yet as I've not gotten into rifle reloading yet. The hole in the wood is a great idea and I have small brass hammers T can tap the boolit with to loosen it. Shooting any animal with a FMJ is inhumane in my personal opinion. If the SHTF next week (N. Korea fires nukes after wednesday), having hunting bullets when nothing else is available will be a blessing.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[historicfirearms]

I just got back from my local Walmart and they had five boxes of the same stuff in their case, same price. I didn't buy any because I'm all set in this caliber, but good to see it back on the shelf.

Lots of people have been giving a negative vibe on here lately. I hope it's just the weather, cabin fever, or whatever and it blows over soon. I'd hate to see this place turn into AR15.com.

[rond]

Winchester white box metric ammo is made in the Czech Republic and the 7.62x39 will have the proper .311 bullet.

[Bloodman14]

As a side note, does anyone know the amount/type of powder used? How does it compare to H322 or H335?

[WILCO]

No bullet puller?

[Win94ae]

Thanks Hangfire for the info. As Robert had said .... the jacket can come off. The boolit would be especially prone to that if the bottom of the jacket wasn't solid.

That is a wives tale.
This video is of me using a Hornady 150gr FMJ, which has a large opening at the base. I snip off a large portion of the tip to give it a broad meplat to facilitate hydrostatic shock. I then test it at 250 yards out of a 30-06 to see if the POI had changed, it hadn't.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM2FVkieDfk

And yes, I called it "hydraulic" shock because I'm a dork.

[Win94ae]

More on the "core can blow thru the jacket" issue.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySSm4DGl7dY

I have never had the core blow through the jacket doing that, I think that issue is a wives-tale.

[10x]

No bullet puller?

A shell holder and a 3/4" gas pipe nipple 4" long with an end cap makes a good puller. Drill a hole in the end cap over the primer.
Tap the whole thing on a block of wood. YOu can even weld a handle to that 3/4" nipple

[Hardcast416taylor]

I recall reading in an Outdoor Life magazine back in the `60`s about how "white hunters" in Africa make soft point loads for their rifles. When ammo was in short supply, one hunter wrote, we would pull the FMJ bullets we used for elephant and other such beasts then push the bullet back into the case with the powder charge backwards with the lead bottom now on top. He claimed these were fine for close range work and were used until they could get a new supply of soft pointed munitions. I imagine these bullets were RN design, but they worked.Robert

Any claim is a "wives tale" until it has happened. There were claims of this happening printed in issues of The American Rifleman back in the `50`s and early `60`s when people were trying this to make better use of Mil Surp ammo. If you feel comfortable doing this "stunt" then by all means do it, please keep us posted. It only takes the proverbial one badly made bullet to seperate and cause grief.Robert

[Win94ae]

If you feel comfortable doing this "stunt" then by all means do it, please keep us posted. It only takes the proverbial one badly made bullet to seperate and cause grief.Robert

"If you feel comfortable" taking personal jabs instead of providing proof to your "claim," "then by all means do it."

[snuffy]

"If you feel comfortable" taking personal jabs instead of providing proof to your "claim," "then by all means do it."

Then, when you're picking pieces of the rifle out of your teeth, tell us again how it's a old wives tale.

Bore friction is enough, especially with a dirty bore, to stop the jacket allowing the core to spit out. That leaves a bore obstruction and a blown up rifle. Be sure to take a video, you tube will welcome it!

[rond]

Then, when you're picking pieces of the rifle out of your teeth, tell us again how it's a old wives tale.

Bore friction is enough, especially with a dirty bore, to stop the jacket allowing the core to spit out. That leaves a bore obstruction and a blown up rifle. Be sure to take a video, you tube will welcome it!

I find that hard to believe.

[MT Gianni]

Some common sense should prevail. If you make a 90% meplate IMO you are at risk of sticking a jacket. If you have a 60% or less I see little to worry about. An old style 6mm or 25 cal file type trim die is good to use as a guide. I did this with spitzer pointed cast bullets and got less than stellar groups. I have seen the practice written up both ways as a warning and a recommendation.

[Bret4207]

The older volumes of The American Rifleman along with such notables as Elmer Keith and Townsend Whelen, Philip Sharpe, etc. told of people having the core pushed pass the cut off nose on surplus military ammo they'd tried to make into "hunting bullets". I've never seen it happen personally, but I've never seen a lot of stuff I've heard about from reliable people. Considering the cost of suitable similar weight bullets designed for hunting with the 7.62x39, it might be worth picking up a Lee die set, or at least the seater, and replacing the FMJ with a SP.

BTW, trying to save someone the problems that can occur from questionable practices isn't nasty snobbery, it's caring for a fellow enthusiast and should be taken that way.