Jack Squat

[Area Man]

Yes, I know Jack Squat about casting, or at least that was true before I came here. My father did a bit of casting and I've inherited his stuff. Unfortunately most of the alloy is of unknown composition. I've set that aside and may work with it later. For now I've recently acquired 100 pounds of wheel weights and 100 pounds of lead. I've also got about 25 pounds of my lynotype. I've got sizing dies but not 100% sure if they're correct. I've never slugged any of my guns.

So here's the plan.

Going to smelt the wheel weights this weekend and slug my guns (357 mag, 44 mag and 500 smith and Wesson possibly the 45 acp)

General plan:

Wheel weights for 38 spcl
Lyman #2 for all others
20/1 for the rolling block (sticking with black powder and bp subs)

I'll post as I go and let you know how thing progress

G

[shadowcaster]

A mix of 50% pure lead and 50% WW will work well for most pistol calibers. You can always sweeten the mix up as the pressure and velocities increase, and GC's if your mold allows. Good to see you will be slugging your guns. Proper fit is really important.

Shad

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Area Man, The Crusty Deary Ol'Coot here, with a welcome aboard.

Looking at your suggested alloys and the firearms in which you plan to use them. So, will make a few comments, which may be worth just what your paying for them:lol:.

According to the Lyman cast bullet book, Lyman #2 alloy is 90% lead, 5% tin and 5% antimony at a BHN hardness of about 15.

Wheel Weights which of course are not an exact science are "about" 95.5% lead, .5% tin and 4% antimony at a BHN hardness of about 9.

20:1 is 95.2% lead and 4.8% tin with a BHN hardness of 10

Linotype is 86% lead, 3% tin, and 11% antimony with a BHN of 22

If you play with those figures, you can brew up what is needed.

BUT, millions of bullets have been cast with just plain Ol'WW and for most of what your listing to be shot, they will do just fine. If you need them a bit harder, cold water quench them as they drop from the mold, size SOON so as to not mess up the surface harding and allow to cure for a week or two before use.

Use a good lube, and in that direction, some business like the White Label Lube people who can be found on this forum make GREAT lube and sell it at a price which makes it hard to justify making any home brew. I really like their "BAC" lube.

Most of my .38/.357 shooting is done at .38 velocities and the small amount of .357 shooting I do is just done with the same WW bullets and I never find leading to be an issue.

For my .44 mag. 5.5" RUGER RedHawk, I am mostly shooting a 310gr WFN gas checked bullet at a touch over 1300fps and again using WW - quenched.

I have given thought to getting a new mold in the range of 260 - 280gr with a Wide Flat Nose profile and no gas check.

Back some years, my son and I were both shooting RUGER BlackHawks in 44mag, and while I could shoot the 240 - 250gr plain base bullets with no leading issues, the son's needed a gas check style to prevent excessive leading.

Now, some 20 + years down the road, I am aware that there may have been a bullet to bore fit issue with Jeff's BH.

Now, a bit of lead streaking in the bore is really no big thing, unless it begins to build up, don't spend a lot of time worring about it.

With my 45/70, it always had a light trace of leading in the last couple inches of the barrel, until I went to the BAC lube after which the barrel is always clean, bright and lead free after a shooting session.

In some testing a couple years back, I saw velocities a touch over 2500fps (355grWFN) and never had more then that slight leading just behind the muzzle.

I am using Gas Check bullets in the 45/70. Now and for the last 3 deer and 2 elk, a 465gr WFN which is an awesome killer. With the WFN, there is zero need or desire for any expansion. Simply not needed.

Soooooo, the point of all this is, get your bullet to bore size correct, use a good lube, and use as little expensive metal as possible. For other then the Black Powder rifle, WW should do just fine.

Now, tin does make nice bullets, but it is expensive and providing your using good temps with good molds you should never need to add tin to the alloy to make good bullets.

In my 45/70 with the 465gr WFN, I am using a 50/50 alloy of WW/lead and the bullets cast great even with the tin percentage well below .5%

Your 500 S&W should be no harder to cast for then the 45/70.

Keep us posted!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[PTS]

Crusty: What does “quenched” refer to? I haven’t cast or smelted yet but am close. Tks in advance.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

PTS,

Quenched as spoken of in my post means dropping the HOT!! bullets directly from the hot mold into cold water.

Now, if your haven't already heard, water and hot/melted lead DO NOT MIX WELL!!!!!!!

That is, by the way, an understatement! BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!

So, the bucket of cold water is off to the side of the hot lead AND ON THE FLOOR so as to prevent any water from getting into the lead pot.

I like to use a five gal bucket, in which I place an old bath towel and every so often put a stick into the bucket to pull the towel up, keeping the towel near the top.

If the towel is not used, the bullets will dent themselves or each other as they drop to the bottom of the bucket.

Some folk will take cast bullets and set them on a tray, them put them into an oven and bring them to a point JUST BELOW melting temp. and then dump them into cold water.

I have just never felt the need to go to that trouble as quenching directly from the mold has always worked for me.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[GaryN]

Crusty is right about the expensive metals. I use as little as possible. I don't water drop or oven treat my pistol boolits. I also do not use gas checks on pistol boolits. I have never had a need. Now if I had a rifle chambered for 357 or 44 mag then I would use them.

[Cane_man]

i know jack squat, but that is all i know

[runfiverun]

the rifles don't need gas checks in the 357 and 44 mag calibers either, they do just fine plain based.
once you get to pushing things then maybe, but i'll live without that last 150 fps.
1600 fps is enough for me.

[Area Man]

I read an article in handloader a while back that tested to see if plain base boolits were more or less accurate than GC. Basically there was no difference in accuracy in and of itself BUT they did find that Boolits designed with a GC did suffer some loss of accuracy when shot without the gas check. I'll be picking up some plain based molds at some point but for now all of my molds are gas checked except the rolling block

[btroj]

First off, we ALL began where ou are now. At one point we all knew Jack quite well.

Don't always believe what you read about cast bullets. Be bold and try some different things, it is called learning. If it works for you in your guns then that is all that matters.
For most of refunds you mentioned wheel weights mixed 50/50 with pure would work fine. I use something even softer for 44 mag, 357, and 45 ACP. No issues at all.

Lyman 2 is, in my opinion, awfully heavy on the tin. Tin is pricey stuff and I prefer to use only enough to do the job. Tin improves fill out in bullets, it imparts little hardness to the bullet by itself.

My suggestion- cast, load, shoot. See what works. See what doesn't work. no better teacher than first hand experience. Start with low end loads. Stay safe and have fun.

[41 mag fan]

First off, we ALL began where ou are now. At one point we all knew Jack quite well.

Don't always believe what you read about cast bullets. Be bold and try some different things, it is called learning. If it works for you in your guns then that is all that matters.
For most of refunds you mentioned wheel weights mixed 50/50 with pure would work fine. I use something even softer for 44 mag, 357, and 45 ACP. No issues at all.

Lyman 2 is, in my opinion, awfully heavy on the tin. Tin is pricey stuff and I prefer to use only enough to do the job. Tin improves fill out in bullets, it imparts little hardness to the bullet by itself.

My suggestion- cast, load, shoot. See what works. See what doesn't work. no better teacher than first hand experience. Start with low end loads. Stay safe and have fun.

Brad made some good points on this post, as did everyone else.
What I'll add to the this is take notes on what you've done, whether it's playing with mixing and matching of alloys or whatever...mold temp, pot temp ect ect ect.
You might find or in my case stumble upon something that works, and want to replicate it and not know what you did to get it to work.
Lord knows I learned this the hard way.

[gareth96]

deleted.. found answer elsewhere.. (for 45ACP you don't need to let air cooled 50/50 WW/lead bullets cure before shooting them)

[blackthorn]

Welcome aboard!! When you slug your barrels, use as close to pure lead as you can to avoid "spring-back". Drilling a small hole end to end through the slug will give any displaced metal somewhere to go and also eliminate "spring-back". Measure with a mic (as opposed to a caliper). Have fun!!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

What btroj didn't mention is, that some of us older folk, now think we know what we think we know :lol: :lol:

CDOC