help me identify type lead and reason for the ultra shiney color? is it ok to use?

[usmcscout]

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hello, I hope this is the proper place to post this! first off please excuse me I am new to casting but I have been handloading since I got out of military. I have been hoarding lead for while now. I just got my NOE molds great molds great customer service anyway I was doing a smelting session since I have smelted all my WW I started in on my misc lead from anchors to what appears be some sort carrier possibly bearing but it is not greasy it looks clean and appears to be pure lead weighing in at about 50 ish pounds.I have 70 of those things aprox 350 pds can someone please identify that in the pic the one that has the ingots sitting on. secondly you may notice obvious color difference its shinny brilliant shinny silver color and slick in texture. I had to flux 5 times since it had brownish purple color at 700 degrees or slightly higher lower. is this OK for making boolits is it considered hard or soft feels soft darn I need get brindle hardness tester too bad their not cheap. also I have a few chunks of some sort lead looks like a rock but extremely hard is there any sort antimony rocks in pure antimony form?

any help is greatly appreciated I am a rookie at this casting gig so go easy[smilie=b:

[dbosman]

From the archives
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?125702-Genuine-Brinell-Hardness-Tester-Cheap

[usmcscout]

so anyone have any insight as to the differance in color of those iggots any comments

[uscra112]

If you've got lumps that might have been parts of a shaft bearing they might be babbit metal. Useful stuff since it usually has a fair amount of copper in it.

One very useful tool that won't cost much, but will help you determine what you have, is a lead thermometer. Alloys melt and freeze at different temperatures, pure lead being the highest, unless you really do have a lump of antimony. Straight antimony melts at such a high temperature that it's almost beyond what we home foundrymen can manage.

It occurs to me that your hard lump might be zinc. In which case keep it away from your lead. Even a little zinc ruins a lead alloy for casting. Zinc melts at a higher temperature than lead, and it floats. If you see a piece floating in your pot, get it out of there pronto.

[detox]

The color difference is caused by temperature. The frosty ingot on left was eather poured hotter or the mould was really hot when metal was poured.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils


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[usmcscout]

The color difference is caused by temperature. The frosty ingot on left was eather poured hotter or the mould was really hot when metal was poured.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils


...

I have smelted a total of 525 pds +/- and most of that was ww and all of them were frosty grey neither my molds were substancally hot since I only have one igott mold. I have asked around and went to my local casting shop where the guy that owns it has been doing casting for longer than I have been alive and he said he was stumped he thought it was on softer side but the collor and texture seemed more like the high tin content alloy but not typical lead? not sure of his diagnosis so I posted here thanks for help

[usmcscout]

If you've got lumps that might have been parts of a shaft bearing they might be babbit metal. Useful stuff since it usually has a fair amount of copper in it.

One very useful tool that won't cost much, but will help you determine what you have, is a lead thermometer. Alloys melt and freeze at different temperatures, pure lead being the highest, unless you really do have a lump of antimony. Straight antimony melts at such a high temperature that it's almost beyond what we home foundrymen can manage.

It occurs to me that your hard lump might be zinc. In which case keep it away from your lead. Even a little zinc ruins a lead alloy for casting. Zinc melts at a higher temperature than lead, and it floats. If you see a piece floating in your pot, get it out of there pronto.

no lumps at all and I have a lyman thermomiter I keep it at mid range of ww on gauge wich I believe is 650-750 their was no possible way zink was in it since I allways go over them with my 400 pd magnet besides it melted like lead does with exception the molten lead was of a deeper color like bright silver. I droped an igott on driveway just see if it had that ting but was just thud like soft lead and dented edge pretty bad so I under assumption its really soft.

[blackthorn]

A sure test for Zinc is to place a drop of Muriatic acid on the metal---if it "fizzes" it's Zinc! Those ingots look like they may be high in tin content. Pour some metel in a 8 to 10 inch strip about a 1/4" thick and then try bending it close to your ear. If it is really high in tin, it should "squeal".

[usmcscout]

I will try that tonight since I am stay home dad and wife dosnt want my 6month old around molten lead lol woman

[quack1]

If you think you're sorting out zinc with a magnet, won't work, zinc isn't magnetic. Magnet is good for finding steel weights, but they just float on the melt anyway.
+1 on the shiny ones possibly having high tin content. The few lino ingots I have are still shiny when wheel weight ingots poured at the same time have oxidized to a dull grey.

[bgokk]

If you think you're sorting out zinc with a magnet, won't work, zinc isn't magnetic. Magnet is good for finding steel weights, but they just float on the melt anyway.
+1 on the shiny ones possibly having high tin content. The few lino ingots I have are still shiny when wheel weight ingots poured at the same time have oxidized to a dull grey.

Beside that the steel clips make all WW magnetic.

[Springfield]

High tin content ingots sometimes come out very shiny, but then so do pure lead ingots. WW tend to come out more frosted. So you can't go by color. If you don't have a real lead tester either do a rule of thumb test like drop them on come concrete and listen to the sound or do like I also do, stab it and twist with a pocket knife. If you do this often enough it will be easy to tell pure from WW from very hard(linotpe). The drop test will also help validate the knife test. If you want more accuracy you will just have to buy a tester. I like my LBT and use it often to verify my rule of thumb tests. I also use the Muriatic acid test. Been fooled a couple of times with some large pieces and the acid ferrets them out.

[captaint]

I have, on occasion, gotten friends to take unknown alloys(especially if I suspect they're high in tin) to the scrap dealer and have them anylized with the "machine". I, once, had alloy that was 40% tin !!! So, it does pay to have it checked out. Mike

[usmcscout]

[QUOTE=captaint;2154743]I have, on occasion, gotten friends to take unknown alloys(especially if I suspect they're high in tin) to the scrap dealer and have them anylized with the "machine". I, once, had alloy that was 40% tin !!! So, it does pay to have it checked out.

thats cool wish my scrap yard did the same

[usmcscout]

High tin content ingots sometimes come out very shiny, but then so do pure lead ingots. WW tend to come out more frosted. So you can't go by color. If you don't have a real lead tester either do a rule of thumb test like drop them on come concrete and listen to the sound or do like I also do, stab it and twist with a pocket knife. If you do this often enough it will be easy to tell pure from WW from very hard(linotpe). The drop test will also help validate the knife test. If you want more accuracy you will just have to buy a tester. I like my LBT and use it often to verify my rule of thumb tests. I also use the Muriatic acid test. Been fooled a couple of times with some large pieces and the acid ferrets them out.

I know I need real hardness tester but am in touph times right now so its eather bartering or selling something to get somthing, thats what kids will do to ya and I refuse any help anyway nouph that I am interested in the acid test where do ya find that stuff at

[usmcscout]

on side note took my 6 month old to scrap yard where my buddy works hoping ti score some linotype but no luck but I did score 29 pds of tin small rolls like some sort flashing but it is tin for wait for it ,wait for it 5$ plus a peuter platter bought foot half x foot by quarter inch for .99 cents not too bad of score don't know why since I have 700 pds smelted thats usable clean iggoted lead i don't know but feel like I should have few drums full just in case

[canyon-ghost]

It looks like pure, soft lead. Possibly with a little tin. Sure is smooth.

[dverna]

Man I hate seeing threads like this. One of the biggest mistakes you can make is to mix a bunch of cr-p together and hope for the best.

As a new caster, if you keep the WW separate and smelt them that is what I would start with. It sounds as this is what you did. GOOD!!! Cast some bullets with this "known" alloy. If you have trouble filling the mold and getting good sharp edges add about 1.5% tin. Clip on WW should have about .5% tin already so adding another 1.5 will get you to 2% - a good place to be.

DO NOT be tempted to add the rest of the stuff you have to your "good" alloy as you may have a hell of a *****.

Those big chunks of what could be babbit metal is very valuable ($4/lb to $10/lb depending on the composition). But you need to know its composition. I would have it tested. So DO NOT mix it with anything yet. You can sell it and buy a lot of good alloy.

[usmcscout]

what is this babbit?

66530 66531

or this

66532

[usmcscout]

Man I hate seeing threads like this. One of the biggest mistakes you can make is to mix a bunch of cr-p together and hope for the best.

As a new caster, if you keep the WW separate and smelt them that is what I would start with. It sounds as this is what you did. GOOD!!! Cast some bullets with this "known" alloy. If you have trouble filling the mold and getting good sharp edges add about 1.5% tin. Clip on WW should have about .5% tin already so adding another 1.5 will get you to 2% - a good place to be.

DO NOT be tempted to add the rest of the stuff you have to your "good" alloy as you may have a hell of a *****.

Those big chunks of what could be babbit metal is very valuable ($4/lb to $10/lb depending on the composition). But you need to know its composition. I would have it tested. So DO NOT mix it with anything yet. You can sell it and buy a lot of good alloy.


thanks for all great tips. i understand not mix alloys unless its to adjust or whatever. I keep them seperate even so far as using seperate cast iorn pots.

[blackthorn]

Muriatic acid can be found at your local hardware or pool supply store. You will likely have to buy a (?)quart size bottle, which is a couple of lifetime supply.