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Fernando
04-01-2013, 11:21 PM
How far does it need to be stripped down?
What special tools do I need?
Any other info is appreciated
Thanks

elk hunter
04-02-2013, 09:04 AM
How far does it need to be stripped down? = All the way to a bare action and barrel.

What special tools do I need? = Barrel vise and action wrench and a heavy bench vise to hold the barrel vise.

You would be better off finding a local gunsmith that would take a barrel off for you than buying the tools yourself unless you intend to do several..

KCSO
04-02-2013, 09:32 AM
Nope... take off the fore end and butt stock and all parts attached to the barrel. Then open the action and put the barrel in the barrel vise and clamp the action in a action wrench and try it gently. Most will unscrew with little effort. If it takes more effort to unscrew it THEN strip it down and put in a spacer block to keep from warping the action and put some force to it. Most 94's unless they are old and rusty actually come apart pretty easy. I like to have either the breech block or a spacer in the action to keep it solid while I work on it.

Fernando
04-02-2013, 09:56 AM
I have an action wrench from doin bolts (sav, rems)
Figure to flip the end around so I have a flat against one side of rec.
The bbl is octagon and would use a padded crescent wrench to spin the
bbl close to the rec????
Sound doable?

g.pennell
04-11-2013, 02:18 PM
Fernando, I hope you haven't tried the crescent wrench trick yet, especially if you want to save the old barrel. Problem is getting the wrench tight enough to not slip, and destroy the flats of your barrel. What MIGHT work, is to make a set of soft lead vise jaws, and clamp the barrel close to the receiver in a large, sturdy bench vise (the bigger the better). Then you should be able to spin the action off with the action wrench (be sure to pad the jaws to prevent marring the action sides). If the barrel starts to turn or slip in the lead jaws, at least it shouldn't mar the corners of the octagon flats like other methods surely will. There's really no substitute for a proper barrel vise, though. YMMV.

Greg

Fernando
04-12-2013, 04:52 AM
No I have not touched it yet - gonna see if she will shoot as is first and if it
does not shoot to what I want then I'll go the 38-55 route.
I'm kind of hoping it doesn't shoot so I can try something that can burn
some of my black powder.

MBTcustom
04-12-2013, 05:54 AM
What exactly is wrong with it as is, real or perceived? If you have an octagon win 94, why not send it to a good smith who has the right tools? That seems like a rather special rifle to be talking about putting a crescent wrench on!

Here's the deal, 90% of gunsmithing is having the correct tool for the job. What you are talking about is like a guy saying he has some fine china that needs to be cleaned up, and will a wire wheel do the trick? LOL! Sure, it'll work, but you might wind up doing more damage than good.

There are some really good gunsmithing books out there, and well worth reading, but the main thing is, whenever you are thinking about working on any of your guns, don't even think about trying to use common household items to do the job! There are specialized tools that are made so that the job can be done properly the first time, and they are often necessary just to get it done without ruining the gun or causing an unsafe condition.

If you want to do the work right, but don't care to be out that much money, what you can do is buy the proper tools for the job and use them, then knock 20% or whatever seems right for a "rental fee" off the cost and sell the stuff in Swappin and sellin section. I almost guarantee you will be able to pass on everything you bought and used to other members for a fair price, and you wont be out much money in the end.

Fernando
04-12-2013, 06:25 AM
I was thinking about having JES do the work but no-one has answered
me in another post weather or not he will pull the bbl and do the work.
It seems from all my searches people pull their own bbl's and send them to him.
I have the action wrench and tools to do bolt's but this is my first playing
with lever things.
I'll take the dig on what ever tools will be needed if he only does take offs
I'll pick the route after this weather finally breaks and I can see if this thing
shoots good enough to leave alone.

MBTcustom
04-12-2013, 09:34 AM
I think that's a really good plan Fernando. I just called JES and left him a message. As soon as he calls me back with the answer to your question, I'll post it here.

KCSO
04-12-2013, 09:58 AM
I actualy had a cresent wrench to remove the actions from 94's, BUT it has brass jaws and I further padded it with aluminum shim stock. The Barrel needs to be in a barrel vise as it MUST be solid. A good action vise for 94's can be made from 1" square stock with brass padding solders on the contact surfaces. If the barrel doesn't spin free with just a little effort put a spacer block inside the action to keep from warping it.

MBTcustom
04-12-2013, 11:02 AM
:goodpost:
What he said.
The danger is crushing the receiver by twisting on it. If you crush it, or twist it, there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth.

2152hq
04-12-2013, 11:30 AM
Put a small 'witness' mark on the bottom at the joint between the bbl and frame before you remove the bbl. Makes re-installation a lot easier when that time comes. Yes the extractor slot can be used as a guide to get it straight up, but it's wide enough so that the bbl can be off a few degrees either way and the bolt still closes on it.

Grip the frame as close to the front as possible when turning it off of the bbl. Use the breech bolt as a block to avoid pinching the frame closed. Back it off just a touch from the breech face of the bbl when doing so. IF the extractor is still in the bolt,, back it off and make sure it stays backed off so the extractor doesn't get caught in the bbl slot and tear everything up when you turn the frame off.
A flat frame wrench is easily made from 2 pieces of 1" square stock. One piece about 5" long, the other 15" or so. The shorter is bolted to the end of the longer piece with bolts long & strong enough to accept the flat sided frames between the 2 pieces.
Shim with leather to protect the frame surfaces.
Use a piece of pipe over the 'wrench' handle end when more leverage is needed.

Use a bbl vise w/good fitting jaws for the bbl. I use lead jaws that are cast to the bbl. Not pure lead as that just extrudes under the pressure of bolting down the vise jaw leaving it loose as you go to work on it. Any scrap hard cast bullet mat'l works well or wheel weights.
You can get away with using a good sized bench vise on lever actions in many instances as the bbls aren't too difficult to remove. But the narrow jaw surface doesn't really give you the best pressure. Don't be tempted to just use a brass shim on either side of the oct bbl in a bench vise. It'll most likely roll right out of the tightened vise jaws when you try to turn the frame off and there's a good chance of damaging the octagon flats/edges.

MBTcustom
04-12-2013, 11:35 AM
JES just called me back. He prefers that you send him the whole rifle so that he can make sure it feeds properly with the new chambering. He makes no extra charge for this service.
his prices are $225 for 3 groove and $250 for 5 groove.
I have used his services, and the finish he puts on the inside of the barrel is superb. Like a mirror.

So, this is a total no brainer! just send the whole rifle and call it a day!

Fernando
04-12-2013, 08:35 PM
Thanks a million - now I'm going to be even more critical of how
this rifle shoots - it better be stelar or off she goes.
I'll just pick up another to run as a 30-30.

GabbyM
04-12-2013, 09:13 PM
Don't overlook the 32 Winchester Special.

Most Win 94's in 30-30 shoot cast pretty good. I really have grown to like mine.

Fernando
04-13-2013, 05:38 AM
It'll have to be 38-55
Don't know why but I have just wanted to work with this
round for years but other irons in the fire have kept it from
the front burner til now.
I've kind of shelved my copper itty bitty group rifles and have
started to focus on lead.

MBTcustom
04-13-2013, 08:47 AM
I've kind of shelved my copper itty bitty group rifles and have
started to focus on lead.
Testify!.............Aaaaaamen!

Mk42gunner
04-13-2013, 08:49 PM
If you really want a .38-55, DON'T SHOOT THE DONOR. Every time I ever bought a rifle to rebarrel and shot it in the original caliber first, it shot too good to mess with.

Robert

Fernando
04-14-2013, 07:25 AM
I'm afraid that will happen.
I've already started looking for a deal on a quality single shot
to venture into the 38-55.
Basically I'll be back in here asking about barrel work on what
I come up with.
Either way I've decided to run both 30-30 and 38-55.
Which and in what is still up in the air till I can get in some
quality range time.
Unlike the BR match yesterday brrrrrr!

MBTcustom
04-14-2013, 08:14 AM
It's just my opinion and everyone's got one, but I would do the 94 in 38-55. It's a classic style that would benefit from that cartridge, would be a real head turner, and would certainly not be a wildcat or a bastardization of the rifle's intended purpose. Consider also, that 30-30s grow on trees. In most pawn shops around the country you can find a 30-30 sitting on the rack. I have yet to see a 38-55. You have an 94 winchester with an octagon barrel, something truly classic in appearance, chambered in the most chevrolet cartridge in the world.

Turning it into a 38-55 would make it a truly covetous piece, and if it shoots 30-30 well, then it will shoot 38-55 just as well, and probably better.

Fernando
04-14-2013, 08:45 AM
My thoughts almost to a T

g.pennell
04-14-2013, 08:45 AM
Tim, I second that opinion. I have most of a pre-64 94 action awaiting its turn for restoration, and it's gonna be a .38-55 in its new life. I really enjoy finding old wrecks and bringing them back, like this recently completed 92 in .32-20:

Before: 67419

And after: 67420

Fit/chambered new Green Mountain octagon barrel, stocked in black walnut from the blank, rust blued barrel and mag tube, nitre blued screws and pins, color case hardened the rest. Fun little plinker/small game rifle!

Greg

MBTcustom
04-14-2013, 09:24 AM
That looks like an expensive little "restoration" project! I wish I could find wood like that!
The fit and finish on that piece looks superb.

g.pennell
04-14-2013, 07:17 PM
Tim, thanks for the nice words! I try not to think too much about the total cost on these projects. Since I do all the work myself, I can budget it out over several months or more. That's the only way I could ever afford nice things. Plus, the hobby keeps me busy and out of trouble (well, most of the time). I just keep having to convince She Who Lets Me Buy Stuff that they're a good investment.

There's a little one-man sawmill operation just down the road in Tennessee that we get our walnut from. He usually has some big slabs of crotch wood that he makes rustic coffee tables from. It isn't exactly cheap, but with careful layout we can usually get several nice stocks out of each slab.

Greg

GabbyM
04-14-2013, 08:09 PM
Speaking of Kentucky walnut. Was at a birthday party yesterday. GF's family was talking about there grandfathers log cabin in Kentucky. Was built from solid walnut logs. in WWII a company purchased it to make gun stocks. They called it the cabin that went to war.

nekshot
04-14-2013, 08:15 PM
greg, that is gorgeous! Did you do the case hardening and if so could you share the process you took?

g.pennell
04-15-2013, 09:17 PM
Thanks nekshot. I hate to hijack Fernando's thread any further, but yes, we did the color case work too. All the pieces are hand polished, then packed in a steel crucible in a mix of bone and wood charcoal, then run through a cycle in a heat-treat oven with a programmable heat control. At the end of the process, the hot parts are dumped into a large container of cool water (exciting!). I hate to over-simplify, but that's about it without writing a book! My buddy and I have done quite a bit of this work, and it seems like we learn something new every time.

Greg

Fernando
04-16-2013, 06:40 AM
Hi-jack away I already got the info I was after:popcorn: