Doctors and guns

[Lon246]

I was asked the "are there firearms in the home" question by a nurse filling forms in my Doctor's office and refused to answer. Since then I've printed out the following and carry a copy on all medical appointments. To the best of my research it is true and valid:

The problem is that Senate amendment 3276, Sec. 2716, part c.only relates to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare):

(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS- A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to–`(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or`(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.`(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION- None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;`(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or`(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.`(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS- None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.`(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE- A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or`(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.`(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS- No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or`(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’.

Video link: http://wizbangblog.com/2013/01/10/obamacare-amendment-does-not-forbid-gun-and-ammo-registration/

[xs11jack]

Good for you, Lon246, if enough of us carry and use the above information, maybe the medical marvels will get the picture. We don't want them in our homes, snooping about.
Jack
and thanks for the effort of getting the info for use.
JS

[Harter66]

Only issue I've is that 3 of the 5 available are competing for " resources". They keep pestering the GF about "resources".

[runfiverun]

they just check the yes box when you do that.

[Phoenix]

I used to carry a similar card that had the privacy act of 1974 on it. It didnt prevent me from having to give the state my SSN. It didnt prevent anyone from asking for my ssn and it didnt sway one single person/company. Your only real option is to lie, i dont think of it negatively if it will effect you negatively for saying so.



Good for you, Lon246, if enough of us carry and use the above information, maybe the medical marvels will get the picture. We don't want them in our homes, snooping about.
Jack
and thanks for the effort of getting the info for use.
JS

[Phoenix]

It is not illegal to lie to a doctor. There are some grey areas regarding lying about being a smoker or drug user, But those are more related to your health insurance than any law. Lying on the application to get insurance is another story. Altho something that would not effect your insurance rate can only result in termination or the policy.



Good for you, Lon246, if enough of us carry and use the above information, maybe the medical marvels will get the picture. We don't want them in our homes, snooping about.
Jack
and thanks for the effort of getting the info for use.
JS

[popper]

BOCare will ask that question when you apply. It's already on the prelim form. Lie and you could lose BOCare. Of course if you keep them in the BARN, it's not a lie.

[dakotashooter2]

Nope..................................

They are all in the garage................................

[shooter93]

Just answer...no....and as far as the SS number goes for Doctors, Dentists etc......everyone gets a different one from me. I have dozens of them floating around out there and trust me....they DO all share that number . SS administration has the correct one.

[firefly1957]

Last year i left it blank my doctor asked and i told him it was to remain blank i have no idea what he did to complete it.

[RoyEllis]

I can tell ya what does NOT work out well....be in a truly smart-@ss mood when asked this question and reply "Heck no, a gun doesn't do ya any good in the house, I always carry mine with me". Causes instant fidgeting, great consternation and a quick call to security.:bigsmyl2:

[twotrees]

The Dr.'s offices were asking this a few years ago, and I always told them to "Go pound salt". Even my GP got the hint and had the girls stop asking and had his forms re-written without the question in it.

I see so many Dr.'s now that I don't think I can count them on both hands, and have never once been asked that question. If they do they will get the same answer...........

[ubetcha]

It is not illegal to lie to a doctor. There are some grey areas regarding lying about being a smoker or drug user, But those are more related to your health insurance than any law. Lying on the application to get insurance is another story. Altho something that would not effect your insurance rate can only result in termination or the policy.

It's not illegal to lie to a doctor,but the Government lies to us all the time.And they get away with it

[ubetcha]

If they check the box when you left it empty,could they be held liable for falseifying official records?They filled it in without your permission.

[Hamish]

My understanding is that it irregardless of what is on the form, it is illegal for them to ask, as it constitutes forming a database, which is expressly verboten.

[gkainz]

I wrote in "decline to answer" and verbally told them "none of your business and way out of bounds."

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Fire Arms........NOPE

[nvbirdman]

When I used to drink, my doctor asked me about my alcohol intake and I grossly understated the amount. In other words I lied to my doctor. Would I ever lie to my doctor again? If I am asked about firearms in the house I certainly will.

[selmerfan]

I've asked my sister about this - family practice doc in rural South Dakota. She asks the question, but only when the patient is brought in for mental healthcare reasons or is currently suffering from depression or bi-polar diagnosis. Not a general question - she's well aware that 98% of her patients have them in their home, if not in their pickup outside.

[mongo]

The medical assistant caught me off guard a couple months ago, She takes my blood pressure, starts to ask about meds, then asked, Do you carry a firearm? without thinking I said, You can see my pistol? So much for this new Crossbreed holster, lol

[dakotashooter2]

"Do I have any gum?" No I don't chew gum next question please........ A benifit of learing loss..............

[nicholst55]

"Do I have any gum?" No I don't chew gum next question please........ A benifit of learing loss..............

Yuck yuck! I like that one, and may well borrow it!

[Dframe]

Since my doctor is an avid shooter who I see at the range all the time, the point is probably moot. But I would NEVER answer such a question. My only response would be: What does that have to do with my medical treatment?

[Bodine]

I just tell them no, straight face and I dont carry into the office. It has absolutely no bearing on my health issues whatsoever. If they ask along the lines of I said I went hunting to to the range before I tell them, used to, but I had to sell all of that to pay my bill with you.
That usually shuts them right up.

[TXGunNut]

"Nope, strictly hand grenades and land mines these days. Guns are dangerous."

[dakotashooter2]

"no...but I keep a little black powder in my shoe".......................

[Lon246]

NEWS RELEASE
(for immediate release, 09/26/2013)

Gun Owners Health Care Privacy Becomes Effective October 1st
Providers May Not Ask About Guns

Missoula, MONT. - The Montana Shooting Sports Association (MSSA) reminds Montana gun owners and health care providers that House Bill 459, enacted by the 2013 legislative session, becomes effective on October 1st. HB 459, now Montana law at 50-16-108, M.C.A., prohibits health care providers from asking patients questions about firearm ownership, possession or use. This new law does allow health care providers to inquire about patient possession of a firearm on the person of the patient at the time of treatment.

HB 459, carried by Rep. Krayton Kerns (R-Laurel), was passed by the Legislature and signed by Governor Bullock to address concerns by gun owners that medical interviews and computerized medical records might be used as a tool to collect and centralize information about individuals' firearm ownership. Gun owners were also concerned that anti-gun bias by a health care practitioner might cause information about patient firearms to skew a practitioner's patient assessment or treatment.

According to Montana law, health care providers and facilities affected by this new law includes both medical and psychological practitioners.

MSSA President Gary Marbut commented, “When originally introduced, HB 459 only specified that health care practitioners could not refuse treatment because a patient declined to answer questions about firearms. However, the Senate Judiciary Committee expanded the measure to also forbid providers from even asking patients questions about firearms. The House approved that change and the Governor signed the bill.” “Because firearms are so ubiquitous in Montana and so unrelated to health care,” Marbut continued, “we think this is very positive public policy by the Legislature. This new law is very suitable for Montana people and for Montana culture.”

MSSA is the primary political advocate for gun owners in Montana and has gotten 63 pro-gun and pro-hunting bills passed since being founded in 1989. See:
http://www.mtssa.org/success

- 30 -

Information: Gary Marbut, 406-549-1252

50-16-108. Privacy in health care -- ownership of firearms. (1) No health care provider or health care facility may:
(a) refuse to provide health care to a person because the person declines to answer any questions concerning the person's ownership, possession, or use of firearms; or
(b) inquire about a person's ownership, possession, or use of firearms as a condition of receiving health care.
(2) For the purposes of this section:
(a) the terms "health care", "health care facility", and "health care provider" have the meanings provided in 50-16-504; and
(b) the term "possession" does not apply to the presence of a firearm on the person of a patient at the time of treatment.

50-16-504. Definitions. As used in this part, unless the context indicates otherwise, the following definitions apply:
(4) "Health care" means any care, service, or procedure provided by a health care provider, including medical or psychological diagnosis, treatment, evaluation, advice, or other services that affect the structure or any function of the human body.
(5) "Health care facility" means a hospital, clinic, nursing home, laboratory, office, or similar place where a health care provider provides health care to patients.
(6) "Health care information" means any information, whether oral or recorded in any form or medium, that identifies or can readily be associated with the identity of a patient and relates to the patient's health care. The term includes any record of disclosures of health care information.
(7) "Health care provider" means a person who is licensed, certified, or otherwise authorized by the laws of this state to provide health care in the ordinary course of business or practice of a profession.

Gary Marbut, President
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
Author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.MTPublish.com

[blackthorn]

The fact that any legislater brought forward legislation on ANYTHING controversial would be a BIG red flag to me! My experience is that it is much easier to amend existing legislation after the fact than it is to bring regressive legislation to the floor naked and alone for all to see (and perhaps notice)! At the end of the day, NO politician is the friend of John Q public!

[w0fms]

Hmm.. "none of your @#$@# business" worked for me when asked. ;)

[Swamp Man]

If I'm ever asked my answer will be "read the bill of rights".

[Lead Fred]

When a nurse asked me, I asked her how many sex toys she had in her bedroom.

The questions ended

[mroliver77]

Not you Fred!! lol



When a nurse asked me, I asked her how many sex toys she had in her bedroom.

The questions ended

[starmac]

Don't start laughing yet Lead Fred, I read an article a couple days ago from an Arizona doctor, they are going to be required to ask these questions and and a whole lot more about your sex life. She was complaining that they were suppose to be fined if they didn't comply.

[Jammersix]

Just answer...no....and as far as the SS number goes for Doctors, Dentists etc......everyone gets a different one from me. I have dozens of them floating around out there and trust me....they DO all share that number . SS administration has the correct one.
That's pretty funny.

My social security number (and a courageous nurse) was the only thing that prevented an erroneous injection during my last operation stay.

Your driver's license is a government issued ID number-- which is what that whole SSAN issue used to be about preventing. It amuses me that folks get wrapped around the axle about an SSAN, but not about a driver's license. That battle was lost while you were looking the wrong direction.

The wise move now is to make sure it's used correctly. I make sure they have the right one.

California is going door to door with a SWAT team to collect guns, and you guys are worried about doctors knowing if you have guns?

These subjects are much ado about nothing.

[MtGun44]

Just say "No."

Bill

[MaryB]

NOYFB is what I wrote in on my physical form.

[Lead Fred]

Just say "No."


that would be lying to the gobermint.

They hate competition

[bob208]

I have never been asked that question by any of the doctors I go to.

[andreadavide]

that would be lying to the gobermint.

They hate competition

This is EXCEPTIONAL!!!!!!!!
I am gonna steal this quote for future use.
Andrea

[kbstenberg]

Since we have been alerted to the question being asked. The wife and I have told everyone we know to give a negative response. I just found out even on my DL app. the question was asked.

[dudel]

I'm sure they are just worried about lead levels in our blood.

yeah, rightttttttttttttttt.

[dg31872]

I haven't been asked yet, but then I live in Texas where everyone has a least one......

[w5pv]

I reply with "I believe in the Constitution of the United States and Amendments as written"

[10x]

When a Doctor asks me about guns I ask what guns they have? If they don't have guns I ask if they can be responsible with drugs.
In Canada aspirin ( a non steroidal anti inflammatory drug) kills and harms more people than guns.
82911

[andreadavide]

Could you post a link where to download from that poster! It's priceless!
Andrea

[10x]

Could you post a link where to download from that poster! It's priceless!
Andrea

http://telusplanet.net/public/emerge/searle.jpg

[Jammersix]

I reply with "I believe in the Constitution of the United States and Amendments as written"

I would change that to "in its current form."

Otherwise, you're supporting contradicting points, slavery, prohibition and bunch of amendments that were never passed.

[LUBEDUDE]

How cool! - did you notice the Marbles Game getter and the Auto Mag on that poster?

[bikerbeans]

10X,

are any of the guns on that poster legal to own in the Great White North?

BB

[10x]

10X,

are any of the guns on that poster legal to own in the Great White North?

BB

I legally own and possess a number of the guns in that poster even though some are prohibited.
The AK is a prohibited, no new owners since 1995 or so
Any handguns with barrels under 4" or in 25 or 32 caliber are prohibited.
The rest of the guns in that poster are considered "Restricted" and one needs a license to possess them - and they have to be registered with the government.

Under current Canadian gun policy the discharge of handguns is limited to places approved by a Chief Firearms Officer. The Chief firearms officer has decided gun ranges approved by the C.F.O. are the only place one can legally fire a handgun.
There is no handgun hunting and one cannot legally shoot a handgun any were but an approved range.

There are some semi auto rifles deemed prohibited. Folks who own them legally can keep them, they just cannot be passed on to heirs. The C.F.O.s refuse to issue authorizations to shoot these at any place other than a Department of Defense military range. Good luck getting permission from the military to do that. Some military folk here frown on public use of anything military.
Also any gun that is deemed restricted or prohibited requires an authorization to transport with the reason for transport. For handguns this would be up to 5 years term and allows transport to gun ranges, sometimes gun shows, sometimes to a gunsmith, and sometimes to international border crossings.

Both restricted and prohibited firearms have to be transported disabled (with a trigger lock or the bolt removed) and in a locked case as well.

I have not shot my AK and FNFAL for at least 8 years simply because the C.F.O. refuses to issue an authorization to take them to our range.
The C.F.O. was willing to issue an authorization to transport them to a gun show at the range but the authorization specifically stated "not to be fired".

The mind of the bureaucrat is a thing of wonder....

[500MAG]

they just check the yes box when you do that.

Exactly! They probably have a special box they check.

[Elkins45]

The last time I went to my doctor he told me about the M1 Garand he bought from CMP. I think he knows I have guns.

[Lead Fred]

This is EXCEPTIONAL!!!!!!!!
I am gonna steal this quote for future use.
Andrea

I stole it from a gobermint employee

83015

[bikerbeans]

10X,

So if you can only fire your handgun at an "approved range" then if someone breaks into your house and threatens you and your family you can't legally use your handgun to eliminate the threat?

BB

[10x]

10X,

So if you can only fire your handgun at an "approved range" then if someone breaks into your house and threatens you and your family you can't legally use your handgun to eliminate the threat?

BB

That threat gets debated in the courts. Firing a gun in "Self Defence" will result in criminal charges.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/01/lorne-gunter-why-hang-ian-thomson-for-the-crime-of-protecting-himself/

Lorne Gunter: Why hang Ian Thomson for the ‘crime’ of protecting himself?

Just when was Ian Thomson guilty of unsafe storage of a firearm? Mr. Thomson is the Port Colborne, Ont., man currently standing trial in a Welland, Ont. courtroom after he and his home were attacked by firebombers in August, 2010. (That’s correct, in the topsy-turvy world of Canadian criminal justice, Mr. Thomson and his home were the ones attacked and yet he is the one on trial.)

Having dropped other more serious charges — such as dangerous use of a firearm — because they concluded there was no reasonable chance of winning a conviction, Crown prosecutors have nonetheless bullied ahead with unsafe storage charges against Mr. Thomson.

[TreeKiller]

My DR. has the time of the Tea Party meeting posted on the door by the reception window.

[Jammersix]

My DR. has the time of the Tea Party meeting posted on the door by the reception window.

I'd find a new doctor.

[wallenba]

My response would be..."of course, It's Michigan!"

[unclogum bill]

Odd, that I have never been asked, When asked for a picture ID at my new doctor I pulled out a concealed carry permit. Still no one batted an eye. I would never do that at a Canadian boarder crossing however. That would be a serious mistake.

[starmac]

I'd find a new doctor.

Still trying to make friends, I see. lol

[rondog]

I've never been asked, but I know my dentist is a duck hunter. He was thrilled to death when I gave him my dad's old antique duck decoys.

[Jammersix]

Still trying to make friends, I see. lol
I don't want my doctor concerned with anything except my health. A Tea Party poster is just as bad as an anti poster-- it's something other than health care.

But don't let that worry you, you just go right ahead.