Shot my first boolits today...have questions now

[Giggidy]

Shot my first boolits today through my CZ82…now I have questions so any help from the cumulative wisdom/experience here will be appreciated.

First, the load data. Shooting a 93 grain Meistercast sized to .365. Worked up two different loads of 2.5 grains and 2.8 grains of titegroup. My main goal was to see how the .365 boolits would work. My barrel slugs out at .363 and I’m trying to determine if I should get a .365 or .364 sizer made. The .365 were available through meistercast so I bought a pack of 100.

My experience: the 2.5 grain loads were a bit snappy and didn’t group too well. The 2.8 grain loads were a bit snappier...felt slightly less powerful than Brown Bear rounds. They grouped pretty good and were actually more accurate than Brown Bear factory loads in my gun. After shooting five at a paper target to get an idea of how they would groupo, I fired my five remaining rounds at some steel plates and hit with each one. I loaded ten Brown Bear rounds and didn’t hit a single plate.

Now, here are some questions I have, and again, any advice is appreciated:
1. The cases were pretty sooty. I’ve seen some talk about titegroup being a dirty powder, but these cases were dirtier than I’ve ever seen titegroup make my 9mm reloads. My thoughts are that either the load is too light, or this is a result of the fact that I was using trimmed 9mm cases and they haven’t been fireformed yet. As an aside, I did mark all of the trimmed cases with an “X” on the base and wrote “MAK” on the side. I was also able to find all but one of my cases. I would guess maybe it is a combination of both, but the fact that my cases weren’t thrown into the next state I’m leaning towards the light load issue. Any thoughts?

2. I checked the barrel after every five rounds. There were some particles towards the back of the barrel that came out with just a dry patch so my guess is that this was powder. I can see some minor lines going down the barrel after shooting the 20 test rounds I made so it seems there was some minor leading. Does this sound correct?

3. I caught some shmootz in the face when I fired. I’ve had this wonderful experience when shooting my Ruger SR22 pistol. This made me think that I had unburned powder because of a light load. However, this being the first time I’ve shot lead, and that the round I was using was .002 larger than my barrel, could this be lead that is sheared off and getting blown back in my face?

4. Should I try some .364 rounds so they are only .001 larger than my barrel? If so, does anyone know where I could find some cast boolits sized to that dimension? If money weren’t so tight I would just go ahead and get two sizers, one .365 and one .364. Given the money situation, I’d like to avoid having a sizer made that won’t be useful though.

I'll post some pictures in a bit if I can figure out how.

[MtGun44]

I am not too sure how well a 9mm cut down will fit the chamber. For proper brass, soot means
low pressure and leakage. That is verified by your blowback (gas leakage) in your face. If the
brass is thicker than it should be or shaped badly, it may not seal well. Never loaded for
the 9x18, so not sure if cutting down 9x19 is all that you need for a proper fit.

Titegroup is normally pretty clean burning. If you have slight leading, you need to shoot more to see
if it continues to build up and causes loss of accuracy. Sounds like you are close but may need more
power to seal or brass that fits properly. I would guess that the boolit fit is at least good, esp
with good accy.

Now that you know this works see if a slight charge increase (assuming that the Hodgdon data says it
is OK - you are using their online loading data, right?) will get you better sealing.

If the accuracy is better than factory, you are getting in the groove.

Congratulations, some success, getting close it would seem

Bill

[R.M.]

Without going to my manuals, I'm going to guess that you loads are too light for the brass to expand enough to seal off the chamber, thus your soot.
.363" sounds pretty small to me, but what do I know. Seems your on the right track though.

[Giggidy]

Here are two pics...one of the grouping (I'm a low-to-the-left guy...but I'm getting better) and one of the sooty cases. They all sooted (is that a word?) in the same pattern, but I've rolled them to different sides.

[Giggidy]

I am not too sure how well a 9mm cut down will fit the chamber. For proper brass, soot means
low pressure and leakage. That is verified by your blowback (gas leakage) in your face. If the
brass is thicker than it should be or shaped badly, it may not seal well. Never loaded for
the 9x18, so not sure if cutting down 9x19 is all that you need for a proper fit.

Titegroup is normally pretty clean burning. If you have slight leading, you need to shoot more to see
if it continues to build up and causes loss of accuracy. Sounds like you are close but may need more
power to seal or brass that fits properly. I would guess that the boolit fit is at least good, esp
with good accy.

Now that you know this works see if a slight charge increase (assuming that the Hodgdon data says it
is OK - you are using their online loading data, right?) will get you better sealing.

If the accuracy is better than factory, you are getting in the groove.

Congratulations, some success, getting close it would seem

Bill

Thanks for the quick thoughts. The Hogdon site only gives data for two jacketed rounds so I chose a starting point between the data for a .380 and the jacketed Mak data. Wanted to make sure I didn't get too crazy out of the gate ;-).

[Giggidy]

Without going to my manuals, I'm going to guess that you loads are too light for the brass to expand enough to seal off the chamber, thus your soot.
.363" sounds pretty small to me, but what do I know. Seems your on the right track though.

I thought the same thing when I slugged the barrel. I've read about people having these guns with barrels that slug out to .365, .366. My Lee mold drops at .367 and .368 so it figures I would have the odd small barrel that keeps me from shooting mine as cast. I even slugged it a second time to make sure. I wonder if the smallish barrel might be why the Brown Bear doesn't seem too accurate. I've pulled and measured a couple of them and I'm getting .364 from them. Maybe a .363 barrel doesn't like a .364 jacketed round? That would be fine by me...once I get the lead round worked out I doubt I'll ever buy Brown Bear again...it is hard to find around here and some people were charging over $20/box before the insanity. If I'm going to pay that much for ammo I'll get S&B somewhere and have some brass cases to reload (if I can find them after I shoot them).

[Phoenix]

The first time you shoot those they will do stuff like that. I convert luger brass for my MAK and have seen some of that but only on the first firing of converted brass. The base size is the same between MAK and luger the MAK is not a tapered case so the base diameter goes all the way up. When you first load it, it is big at the bottom and top and sligthly smaller in the middle. Once the brass is fire formed it should not do that anymore.

If you are getting good accuracy, no leading, and no pressure signs then it sound like you are golden. My MAK is a PA-63 anbd I love that little gun. looks like a slightly bigger version of a PPK. Mine shoots .365 perfectly. the size of the caliber is .364 so that makes sense. your barrel slugged at .363 what about the throat? the barrel tapers slightly from the throat to the muzzle. so if you slug the whole barrel it will always be smaller than the throat (well always may be a bad term but normally)