Ease of casting- Small vs. Large bullets

[Namerifrats]

Just curious if any of you seem to have better luck getting alot more Nice cast bullets from larger bullet molds as opposed to smaller bullets? I'm actually casting as I type this (well, in a way, I just refilled my pot and I'm letting it get back up to temp) and I cast alot of 500 S&W bullets (Lee 440 Gr mold) and I'm just rying out a new mold that cast little 95 gr bullets for the 9mm 9x18 Makarov. When I first started with the 440 gr mold, I made 6 total drops before the good ones started falling. On the smaller one, I've made about 25 drops so far (it's a double cavity) and have maybe 9-10 nice bullets out of 50. The alloy is good because it's part of a large batch of WW I smelted a few weeks ago and I've even cast 60 440 Gr bullet a few minutes ago as well and had only 5 bad ones. Just curious, I'll go back out in a few and cast some more. I've tried different temps on the mold, maybe I just haven't hit it just right yet. I'll report back this afternoon. :castmine:

[scrapcan]

Namerifrats,

What kindof mould are you using? Lee, RCBS, NEI, Saeco, etc.. What Kind of material is the mould made of? Some of the above may help those who can help you out.

You may have to do some work on sprue plate tension, flatness of sprue plate, or clean the vent lines on the mould. You might also want to give the mould a thorough cleaning. Just some thoughts.

The only ones I have had a lot of trouble with are the 22 cal rifle bullets. I have to run both aluminum 2 cav and steel 2 cav moulds that I have pretty hot and fast to keep them up to temp.

[Namerifrats]

Both of my Molds are LEE, Aluminum molds. The bad bullets are the classic "Winkles and Lines". Like there's some oil in there. It's a brand new mold, I cleaned it by the instructions and just like I did the larger one with no problems. I use a Q-Tip and Alcohol, clean the cavities only. Then use a cigarette lighter to smoke the cavities til they're black. I've already cooled this one down and recleaned it once, and just came back in and I'm cooling it down as I type to reclean it again with some detergent and hot water.

[felix]

Agreed, the 22 cal molds need to be made such that they retain heat. If not, unusually fast casting is a requirement, not just a maybe. Any custom mold should have this consideration inherent in the design, such as a coppered iron composition with 4 cavities, sized for 2 cavities normally. ... felix

[TooManyMisses]

I don't have much experience casting and maybe I just got lucky or there could be a big difference with a .30, 160 gr. but I found to cure the wrinkles I had to keep dipping the corner of the Lee mould back in the pot to keep up the temperature and drop them nice and clean.

[Namerifrats]

I'll see what happens in a few. I've got the mold heating now. Just cleaned it really good with dish detergent and hot water, and then cleaned it again with Greased Lighting. Smoked it and have it heating. I also cranked the temp up a lot more than I had it. Hopefully I've have some good results and get a couple hundred cast before it gets too hot out ther in a couple of hours.

[Boomer Mikey]

Lee's instructions are to run the temp up until you get frosted bullets then slow down, cool down with a wet towel or reduce heat. Your large bullets put more heat into the mold. Run the temp up to 800 - 850 degrees then back off the temperature to get the bullets you like after they start frosting badly. Lee's instructions are accurate for their molds.

Boomer :Fire:

[Namerifrats]

And the verdict of the third try is..........



Beautiful perfect bullets falling like rain!! Out of the last 50 dropped, maybe 4 bad ones. Not sure what corrected it, but I tried everything mentioned as well as that last cleaning. Ran the temp way up and started speed casting. Thanks to all that helped! :castmine: :Fire:

[stubert]

I use mostly iron molds from RCBS or LYMAN. I clean mine first with spray carb. cleaner and then spray them with starting fluid, Then I smoke it with a BIC lighter. The smallest bullet I cast is a 200 grain 35 cal. The biggest is a 475 grain .458, I usually get keepers after only 5 or 6 casts using a #2 alloy. When I cast pure lead roundballs it takes quite a few more for some reason. I cast them from .433 - 610

[mooman76]

I also find that the larger or even med. bullet moulds are easier. I think the extra amount of lead helps keep the mould temp up and get it to temp faster. I only have a couple small moulds and they tend to just need a little extra attention to keep/get them going. I also think the extra weight of the big bullet helps them drop out easier too!

[Dale53]

I cast bullets from the tiny .22 caliber (Lyman 225415) all the way up to custom .45/70 bullets for silhouette BPCR use. The really big bullets are, by far the hardest for me to cast well. However, I do an excellent job with all. I just had to learn that each and every mould seems to have its own personality. I suggest you keep notes on your moulds and then the next time that you try to use it you won't have to "re-invent the wheel".

New moulds cause the most problems simply because they are NOT easy to get really clean. My first choice of methods is to use hot water, dish detergent and an old toothbrush. Just scrub the dickens out of the entire mould and then carefully rinse with hot water and dry. You should then be "Good to go".

Dale53

[Namerifrats]

I have 600 of the small bullet now that I cast today and 200 more for the 500 S&W. I still think it's easier to cast the big bullets and they deffinatly drop out easier than the small ones!

[Snapping Twig]

Cleaning out the cavities only was probably the culprit. I use brake cleaner after first soaking up all the oil with paper towels (the blue ones from Costco), then I use brake cleaner a second time and then smoke the cavities with a Bic lighter.

There was probably some residual oil between the faces of the mold that found its way back to the cavities, your second cleaning nailed it.

[John Boy]

Namerifrats: First clean your molds with Micro-90 and a toothbrush
Then find the temperature of the melt that your mold likes for each alloy being used
Then cast using the Eight Phase Casting Cycle

Every mold has a specific heat range that produces quality bullets. When you find that range, mark it on the box for the the alloy being used.

I cast 45grain to 570grain bullets with many different makes of single - double and gang molds. Each produces good looking bullets doing the above: Clean - Temp Range - Casting Rhythm

[shotstring]

Temperature, temperature, temperature! Good pancakes and good cast bullets seem to have a lot in common. I cast my best bullets when I get a real feel for the heat. Both the lead temp in the pot, and the amount of time to let each mold set before breaking it open. I like to cast fast, so I prefer to go hot on everything til I get frosted bullets, then drop down just a tad.

Its been a long time, but when we had the shop, the best cleaner we found for dies and such (can't remember using it on the molds because they were casting good) but I don't see why they wouldn't work on molds as well, was benzene. Whole nuther level of toxisity here....and DON'T BREATHE THOSE FUMES!!! Benzene is really nasty stuff but it cleans and removes oils like no tomorrow.

It's been a long time and I can hardly remember all the stuff we did in our casting, but is certainly refreshing getting back into it.

[leftiye]

On another thread 454PB mentioned taking a mold's temp with an Infra Red thermometer (which reads surface temps from the heat given off). I may have to get one. One more step in getting the variables ironed out! You could make notes on various molds with various alloys, and be able to "dial in" temps at the beginning of a session, as well as monitor mold temp during casting.

Interestingly, He said that one of his molds at a temp of only 250 degrees is hot enough to start casting, also he mentioned one mold that was tested temp wise while casting and was at 360 degrees when the melt was at 720. Just to provide a feel for how hot molds are that are casting well. I've previously heard that mold temps of 400 degrees were normal. FWIW

[Namerifrats]

Speaking of that, my alloy usually runs around 575-650 when I cast and have really good results.

[whisler]

Benzene fumes are indeed toxic, but two related chemicals that clean as well without near the toxicity worries are Toluene and Xylene. One or both should be available in most paint stores or Big Box paint departments. Still not great to breathe in unventilated areas but not nearly as bad as Benzene.

[leftiye]

Name,
When you have a few xtra bucks (lol) get a lyman or other good casting thermo to check your furnace temps. That casting temp sounds too low to me unless you're casting linotype metal straight (though I like 650 degrees if you can get it to work). Or you might even get one of them IR thermometers.

[grumpy one]

leftiye, my experience deviates from yours here. In a recent session I got a single cavity Lee mould hot, then kept it so while decreasing the alloy temperature as far as possible. My alloy was about 1.3% tin, 5% antimony. Liquidus temperature was 520*F. With the alloy at 575*F I was dabbing the bottom of the mould onto a wet rag after each cast to speed solidification. I dropped the alloy temperature to 550*F and no longer needed to do this, but bullets were still good (and completely frosted). My thermocouple readout is an ancient Simpson Model 388 Therm-O-Meter analogue one, a lab instrument which gives the right liquidus temperature numbers for each alloy I've tried including linotype. The 520* liquidus temperature was determined with the same thermocouple, the same readout, the same alloy, and in the same session.

[Petander]

On another thread 454PB mentioned taking a mold's temp with an Infra Red thermometer (which reads surface temps from the heat given off). I may have to get one. One more step in getting the variables ironed out! You could make notes on various molds with various alloys, and be able to "dial in" temps at the beginning of a session, as well as monitor mold temp during casting.

Interestingly, He said that one of his molds at a temp of only 250 degrees is hot enough to start casting, also he mentioned one mold that was tested temp wise while casting and was at 360 degrees when the melt was at 720. Just to provide a feel for how hot molds are that are casting well. I've previously heard that mold temps of 400 degrees were normal. FWIW


Those thermometers are extremely practical, I have used one for a few years and it helps tremendously.

Just remember that the numbers you get may not be absolute... the reading depends on the surface material, at least with my laser thermometer. Reflective surfaces show lower temps . But it doesn´t matter, they are very helpful when figuring out stuff.