Bad day at the Bench

[mdi]

Well, I found myself talkin' 'bout casting more than I was casting (I was becoming an expert in my own mind!), so yesterday I broke out the pot and a couple molds. What a fiasco! Brake cleaned the molds, preheated on my hotplate, cast mebbe a half dozen "starters" and then tried for my "keepers". I got none!:x Wrinkles, so I heated the molds a bit more. More wrinkles, so I dropped a bit of tin in the pot (mebbe 1/4 lb. of 60-40). Wrinkles going away, mostly. Then measured some, .003"-.006" out of round. [smilie=b:. Dropped the melt temp, same stuff. Raised the melt temp., same stuff. Put that mold away and went to my Lee .45 ACP TC mold. Results just as poor.:groner: Well, I guess I'm going back to the books (The notes I kept. When I got a new mold I noted what temps/alloys/methods worked best with that mold). So, I quit for the day, try again tomorrow. I also ordered a new Lee mold, copy of H&G 68, 200 gr. SWC, just to make me feel better!

[jimb16]

I can tell, you forgot to say the majic words! Very secret....I can't tell you what they are. If I did, I'd have to shoot you! (Probably with a wrinkled out of round boolit!)

[detox]

Use a ladle. And better moulds....you get what you pay for.

[Tatume]

I suggest you scrub your mold with hot water and dishwashing detergent. It sounds like there is oil on it.

[Taylor]

Some days are just better than other's,I've had those days too.

[x101airborne]

Maybe you weren't holding your tongue right?

I had the same thing last month. I was casting outside in my barn with a 6 cav lee mold and kept getting poor boolits. Come to find out.... I was getting a wind that was cooling off my mold too much. Just one of those days.....

[MtGun44]

Some spray cleaners leave residue. Scrub the cavity with toothbrush and detergent or
Comet.

Bill

[shadowcaster]

Sounds like oil or residue left in the mold. I use simple green and a toothbrush to give it a good scrub followed by a hot water rinse and then an alcohol rinse.

Shad

[Trey45]

I have had days like that, you do everything right and it all still goes wrong.

Try again tomorrow, or the next day, or whenever, as long as you try again!

[Gibbs44]

I was given some advice when I first joined. I was getting wrinkled bullets first and then they weren't filling out. I think a hotplate helped, and then not using a spray on drop out agent helped with the fill out. I just know that I'd never had a real good casting session until I used the below information, and couldn't really figure out why anyone would do this stuff.

I hope it helps.

1) Clean the mold blackpowder style, hot water and dish liquid and a toothbrush.
2) Set it on a hotplate to dry.
3) Smoke the mould.
4) Fill cavaties with molten lead.
5) Cut sprue, but don't dump bullets.
6) Use 2 cycle motor oil to lube the hinge screw area.
7) Drop bullets and lube only the alignment pins.
8) Begin casting.

If I left anything out someone please let fill it in.

Thanks

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Ain't that a fit! I don't know why, but sometimes I just have to stop doing whatever it is that I'm doing and go sit down and watch TV or head to bed early. There are just some days when things don't go right for nothing. Not only casting but working on the truck, remodeling the house or whatever. It just ain't going to work that day and I might as well go relax instead of getting mad.

[Tinner_bob]

Ain't that a fit! I don't know why, but sometimes I just have to stop doing whatever it is that I'm doing and go sit down and watch TV or head to bed early. There are just some days when things don't go right for nothing. Not only casting but working on the truck, remodeling the house or whatever. It just ain't going to work that day and I might as well go relax instead of getting mad.

If I did this I might as well never leave the house.
: )

[TCLouis]

I'm with you, there are days when that which controls the silver stream does NOT jive and nothing works.

Time to quit and do something else when it does happen.

[warf73]

Sorry to hear about the bad casting day, but I know why it was bad.

NEVER cast on a full moon day, the extra gravity pull that is creatated by the full moon phase pulls on the lead(upwards) and makes wrinkles. Just like on new moon days your bollits are great with nice fillout but are heavery as the moons gravity is weaker and the earths gravity is stronger (no moon resistance) makes a more dence bullet.

[milkman]

Warf73's post is just all wrong. That ain't it at all ! How many of the wrinkles on your Mother-in-law's face are from things being pulled upwards?
Milkman

[justing]

i have had one of those days stick in there.

[linotype]

Sorry to hear.
I think your lead stash has been contaminated with unobtainium. Try fluxing. If that doesn't work, I offer a decontamination service, or a one-for-one swap.

[VictimNoMore]

Use a ladle. And better moulds....you get what you pay for.

Not even money can solve bad juju. Best to move on with life.
Acceptance rules the roost on days like that.

[skeet1]

mdi,
Sorry to hear about your problems with your casting today. I think some good advice has been given about cleaning your mould. I noticed that you said that you ordered the Lee clone of the H&G 68. Today I used my Lee 6 cavity of that mould and got a nice pile of boolits, about 400 and the mould worked great. This is my favorite mould, it works great and the boolits shoots great. I hope you have the same success that I have had.

Ken

[Wayne Smith]

Wait for a rainy day and go for it. Meanwhile clean the mold well and DON'T smoke it. That's as bad as dropout spray. I you don't have any order some sprue plate lube from Dan and follow his instructions to lube the mold once you get it going.

I don't know why but it does work better when it's raining. Besides, when it's not raining, if you are like me, there is lots to do outside in the spring.

[mdi]

I've been casting bullets for nearly17 years mostly with bottom pour and Lee molds. It wasn't the equipment, it was me. The next day I cast up about 175-200 keepers (but I broke out the thermometer and re-read my casting notes, put on my "Legends of Country Music" CD, adjusted my stool 3/4" higher and wore my blue sweatshirt, with red and white paint splotches, kept my tongue in my mouth this time and wore my safety glasses ala DWP in 1998). I even made up a dozen sinkers, but I don't like my good bullet alloy going to waste!

[MtGun44]

Don't smoke the mold.

Bill

[mdi]

Don't smoke the mold.

Bill
Gave up smoking 26 years ago. Besides, how do you keep them lit?:groner:

[warf73]

Warf73's post is just all wrong. That ain't it at all ! How many of the wrinkles on your Mother-in-law's face are from things being pulled upwards?
Milkman

LOL got me there.
I've had bad days casting like everyone else, its always best to walk away but sometimes its hard to do.

[10x]

Mother said there would be bad days, she did not tell me they would be most every day...

[dverna]

I wonder how many "issues" are due to stuff in the alloy. I do not believe that casting is an art. If the alloy is right, and the temperature of the alloy and mold are right - and the mold is "clean" - we should get good (if not excellent) bullets every time. If it was an "art" commercial casters would be bankrupt. There are so many people trying to do this "cheap" by using reclaimed lead, or WW that can be all over the map, or Ebay lead, etc. etc. that there is little chance of having a consistent alloy unless they use a large smelter and make up a 100+ batch. Then there is no assurance that the next batch will be the same composition. And the "quest" begins anew.

[mdi]

I wonder how many "issues" are due to stuff in the alloy. I do not believe that casting is an art. If the alloy is right, and the temperature of the alloy and mold are right - and the mold is "clean" - we should get good (if not excellent) bullets every time. If it was an "art" commercial casters would be bankrupt. There are so many people trying to do this "cheap" by using reclaimed lead, or WW that can be all over the map, or Ebay lead, etc. etc. that there is little chance of having a consistent alloy unless they use a large smelter and make up a 100+ batch. Then there is no assurance that the next batch will be the same composition. And the "quest" begins anew.

"Should"! I believe there is a lot of art in casting. Sure right alloy, right temps. "should" equal good bullets. But what if today you are holding the mold a bit cocked and the lead "swirls" inside the cavity, or you pour straight down the sprue hole, or hit the side of the hole, or the mold is farther away from the spout, or there's a cross wind that can cool the melt in that 1" between the spout and mold, and even how much melt is in the pot (different pressure/speed of pour). I'd say finesse is about 50% of home casting (commercial casters take all the "human" aspect outta bullet making, aka "art")...

[TXGunNut]

My day started out that way today. Been a few months since I casted and it didn't start well, pretty sure I had well over 100 go back in the pot. I kept at it until I got the pour and mould temp right, all it took was a faster tempo. I also had to get a wet rag to keep the mould from overheating. My new mould (RD 6 cav 454-290) likes to run fast & hot but needs to rest on a wet rag now & then. If your new Lee H&G 68 is like mine it will like to run fast as well but will need to be cooled when it gets too hot.

[cs86]

I went shooting today and had a guy stop and visit with me for a bit. I told him I just started casting and it was my 3rd time out with the cast bullets. He gave me a few words of advise and one of them was never to use brake cleaner. He said after 5 years of casting he recently learned that hot water and soap will give much better results for a clean mold.

[finishman2000]

I can truely say i have never had a bad day casting when i use my master caster. I tried a new aluminum mold last week and i 45 minutes i got 0 good boolits. i hate aluminum [smilie=b:

[dverna]

mdi,

I did not intend to be disrespectful. My point is that the laws of physics are fairly consistent and that by holding the variables in our process the same we will have a better chance of make consistent bullets every time out. If bullets are not coming out well, something has changed. In my opinion, the most important variables can be held to reasonable a level of control. One of the most important factors is alloy; and some casters have no idea what their alloy is pot to pot or even batch to batch. So they wind up tweaking other variables to "accommodate" the alloy - alloy temp, mold temp, pot level, pouring technique etc. And if those things do not work they will add some tin or other element to "sweeten" the alloy. Well, that is not art - that is flailing around.

In your case, it would be interesting (and useful) to understand why you had "a bad day at the bench". Without that understanding, how do you correct it and prevent (minimize) having another bad day. That would also be an interesting item to share with others so they can learn. To me, that is an understanding of the process and how to control it. If you call that 'art' we agree.

I just read a thread of a someone lamenting that his alloy was molten at about 500 degrees and wondering why? It had never happened before. Yes, he has a thermometer and it seems to work. Well, if he gathered a bunch of "stuff" to make his alloy, he has no idea what other junk is in his alloy. Me thinks he will have a bit of a challenge making good bullets and will need all the artistry at his disposal. All avoidable if he had a known alloy.

You are correct about "commercial casters take all the "human" aspect outta bullet making". And that my friend is the whole point. Our goals should be the same unless we enjoy "having a bad day at the bench". I hate failure. But even worse is to fail and not learn something from it.

[XWrench3]

i have had issues like that too. biggest one came from putting kroil into a lee mold. spent hours trying to get that mold to work correctly. as a last resort, i cast a dozen boolits with it, drilled and tapped them to put a screw in the middle, so i could run them with the drill. then used bon-ami scouring powder and water paste in the mold after i got it hot. after 6 boolits like that, then scrubbing with a toothbrush under hot water in the sink. it finally worked correctly again. that was my one and only time experimenting with anything in the casting surface of a mold.

[mdi]

As I stated in post #22, the problems I encountered didn't originate from my equipment, alloy, or molds. I have used the same alloy (I have prolly have 100 lbs. of it mixed up), same molds, same everything except I was the difference. I've cleaned molds with a lot of different methods and settled on brake clean which works 99% of the time for me (spray on liberally, and dry with a propane torch). I have "polished" cavities with tooth paste but my favorite is Comet with oil. I have cleaned out vent lines and scrubbed mold surfaces. I like to think I know what I'm doing when it comes to working with metal having been a machinist/mechanic/electrician all my working days. I take pride in my tools and try to keep them in the best shape possible, including my casting tools/equipment. So, the culprit on that "bad day at the bench" was me...

My goal is to produce "perfect" hand cast bullets, customized for my particular guns, and the satisfaction that goes along with it. I could prolly get everything exactly the same, alloys identical, mold temp ideal, timing exact, but I'm sure that it would not be as satisfying as making a few culls and getting into the "zone" and casting "perfect" bullets. To me it's the same as painting "The Mona Lisa" or buying a $.99 print...

Or I could just buy one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7RCO49I60

[H.Callahan]

Obviously, you have not recently made the required blood sacrifice to one or more of the appropriate gods. Your probably P.O.'ed one of them off.

:lol:

[mdi]

Obviously, you have not recently made the required blood sacrifice to one or more of the appropriate gods. Your probably P.O.'ed one of them off.

:lol:
That's it! I thought 3rd degree burns from dropping a hot sprue in my lap counted as a sacrifice, but mebbe not...:mrgreen: