old muzzle loader , home built in prolly early 1950's

[crossxsticks]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/crossxsticks/muzzlelozder45cal_zpsdb664584.jpg

here is what i got, barrel has 8 lands barrel is in good shape , the barrel measures 11/8" x32", the twist seems to be between 1in32 & 1in36 . the Bore dia. is .438 and Grove dia.is .456 . The lock is hand made from a old right hand shotgun lock ,i always shot 45 cal balls in it but never good. i got this from a old man that made it in the 50es i got it in prolly 1962 he used a old rifle barrel off of something ? I have been reading on forum bout paper patch muzzle loader . anyone got ideas . what bullet and sizer maybe ?

[rhbrink]

There is probably a whole lot that you can do with it but we need a whole lot of more information. You mention that you can see through it does that mean that you can take the breechplug out and drive a oversize ball through the barrel? From there you can measure the bore and groove size. You also need to figure out the twist rate, take a very tight fitting jag and patch and push down to the bottom of the barrel and mark the cleaning rod. Also make a long make on top of the rod that lines up with the front sight now slowly and carefully withdraw the rod letting the jag and patch turn with the rifling when the long mark comes up dead center on top again lined up with the front sight measure from the end of the barrel to the mark and that should be close to the twist. If it is a very slow twist it may only make a half turn before you pull the rod out of the barrel, but at any rate you should be able to calculate the twist.

Then report back.

RB

[10 ga]

A faster twist aint gonna shoot RB that well unless ya slow them down a bunch. From 27/1 to 35/1 twist probably and definitely for conical. Lots of choices there. Go up to stickys and read Idahoron on how to PP for ML. That be way to go. And dittos " " to what rhbrink said: slug that barrel so ya get the right sizer per use as per Idahoron sticky.

You b havin some fun now.

10

[Hanshi]

I keep reading this word on some of the forums and never, ever in my 66 years on the earth have I heard the word, "prolly" before. Does it have a specific meaning, is it a substitute for "probably" or is it something used by poseurs for humorous effect? :kidding:

[twotoescharlie]

don't have to remove breech plug to check size of bore, get a 6-8 inch piece of brass rod a little under bore size, slide it down the barrel drive a oversize lead slug in the muzzle, push it down 4-5 inches. use the piece of brass liker a slide hammer to knock the lead plug out of the barrel. use plenty of oil.

TTC

[451 Pete]

It's kind of hard from the information here to tell exactly what you have but the hooked butt stock and raised cheek piece look like they belong to a German Schuetzen style of rifle. These were made with either round ball barrels or faster twist barrels designed to shoot a bullet. Checking out the twist rate of the rifling will tell a lot about what it wants to shoot. Using a tight patch mark your cleaning rod and measure the distance it takes for the rod to make one complete revolution of the rod when withdrawing it from the barrel. This will establish a twist rate for your rifle and help to determine what bullet it should shoot accurately.

Pete

[crossxsticks]

I keep reading this word on some of the forums and never, ever in my 66 years on the earth have I heard the word, "prolly" before. Does it have a specific meaning, is it a substitute for "probably" or is it something used by poseurs for humorous effect? :kidding:
yes sir you got it right off. :grin:

[crossxsticks]

I gotcha :smile: have sluged the barrel and got a good imprint of the lands I'll get back with y'all soon and thanks.

[crossxsticks]

the barrel measures 11/8" x32", the twist seems to be between 1in32 & 1in36 . the Bore dia. is .438 and Grove dia.is .456

[idahoron]

I am very curious about this rifle. If it is a fast twist .451 I have a mould that might be good for that rifle. Ron

[crossxsticks]

I am very curious about this rifle. If it is a fast twist .451 I have a mould that might be good for that rifle. Ron

Ron it mikes a tight .438 but i shot .440 ball's and patch . not very accurate but they will go in and out lol. its been years ago since i shot it . it was my loaner , and a friend had it prolly 10 years hanging over his fireplace before i got it back. I called it my buggy gun lol to heavy to tote . I sure wouldnt know if it shoot .451 or not

[rhbrink]

Would it be possible that it is a gain twist? If it is it would very difficult to get a true reading on the twist. Being that tight on the dimensions that's what it sounds like to me. Numerich (Not sure about the spelling) made some about the time frame that the rifle was built in. Have you tried very light loads in it say starting out about 40 grains of 3F and a tight ball and patch combo? Those barrels would shoot very well but were very difficult to find a accurate load. If it's a straight twist with those dimensions it would probably take a custom boolit mold to make it work but with rifling that deep it would very difficult to find something accurate, I think. Maybe someone will speak up that has more knowledge about a boolit that would work in this barrel.

RB

[crossxsticks]

thanks RH yes i remember the Numrich Arms and gain twist i built a Kentucky rifle out of one in early 60es and it didnt shoot all that good and Douglas barrels was the one of choice then also Numrich was a little cheaper lol. I dont think it is a Numrich gain twist or Douglas . they were stamped . no markings on the barrel . I am thinking re barrel it Probably or just keep hanging it on the wall another 50 years LOL. it has a beautiful stock .

[rhbrink]

I think that I would rebarrel it and shoot it looks like a very nice offhand rifle. You could also have it bored out and new rifling cut, there are several guys on the forum that have had that done and are happy with the results.

RB

[crossxsticks]

re-bore that sound good. thanks

[Hanshi]

Interesting dilemma. FWIW I bought a Numrich H&A .45 underhammer round about 1965 or so. .45 was the largest bore they sold at that time. I specified gain twist. The rifle is spooky accurate (now retired). A smaller ball was recommended but it loaded okay with .440" ball and thinner patch. Yes, it is virtually impossible to get a twist reading from a GT barrel.

[crossxsticks]

they do shoot good I have a buddy that shoots one has for years , i got 2 under hammer actions someday i might put one together .there not H&A something Creek cant remember now. they have set screws instead of pins


Interesting dilemma. FWIW I bought a Numrich H&A .45 underhammer round about 1965 or so. .45 was the largest bore they sold at that time. I specified gain twist. The rifle is spooky accurate (now retired). A smaller ball was recommended but it loaded okay with .440" ball and thinner patch. Yes, it is virtually impossible to get a twist reading from a GT barrel.