bad leading

[strongbow67]

Hello,to all you lead gurus, I recently started to cast again after a long hiatis. I used to cast the 358156 for my .357 and had good results. I have just cast and sized 1100 9mm bullets and today was the trial run. i am shooting a xdm 5.25 the barrel slugs at .3555 and they are sized at .3565 the load is 4.2 grains of n320 with the rcbs 124-cn boolit with tac#1 lube. they instantly grouped poorly. i checked the bore and it had very bad leading from breach to muzzle they are straight ww cast. do they need to be harder? also I forgot I added a little pewter to it for the tin like 1% thanks for any input.

[supv26]

Sounds like they need to be harder. Did your WW's have any stick on weights or were they just the clip on's? You could try dropping a couple of tenths on the powder and see what happens. I like my cast boolits to just be past the point of operating the action on semi auto's. I did some .452's for my Glock using IMR PB and found out that going from 4.5 grain to 4.2 really made a difference in leading and still operated the action.

[R.M.]

I'd bet your crimping die is swagging the boolit enough to make it too small.Pull a loaded round and measure the boolit. This is quite common.

[Doby45]

I bet you are squishing the boolit as you seat it. Seat your boolit and then pull it prior to crimping it, dimes to donuts it is smaller than .355

[40Super]

I have 2 XDm's and 2 extra barrels for them, for 4 calibers (9mm, 357Sig and .40 in one and .45 the other). Those guns are made to shoot lead! I do run a harder alloy in the 9 and I polished the barrels with an ultra fine metal polish to smoothen up the bore to a mirror. Otherwise they like lead. As stated make sure your case isn't swaging the bullets down when seating or your crimp is doing the same. I water drop my 9mm bullets also and run heavier 140gr pills over AA#5, WSF or SR7625.

[runfiverun]

if it ain't squishing i'd drop the load back to 3.7 grs and try again.

[RobS]

If the WW boolits haven't age hardened for a week minimum or better two prior to reloading then Either water drop or size as large as the chamber will allow up to .358"

A pulled boolit and measuring the very edge of the base band will tell you a lot.

[fcvan]

+1 on the size to .358 for the 9mm. Every 9mm I've shot has been sized to .358 and worked well. My standard load is the Lee 356-125 2R cast from range scrap and loaded over 5 grains of Unique. Last year I sized some to .357 and had keyholes at 15 feet, but no leading. That was with a Lone Wolf conversion barrel for my Glock 22. I went back to my standard 9mm load and voila! Instant tack driver again.

[MaineJim]

I was getting leading in both my Glocks,26,17 with straight wheelweights.
No leading whatsoever after I went up to 14-16 bhn.

[Errokk]

My xdm 3.8 mics the same as yours and mine likes my boolits at .357". I'd try a little larger boolit and also make sure your not over crimping it. I also water drop my boolits which give the WW's just a little bit harder surface to ride the rifling with.

[Case Stuffer]

IMO cast air cooled or wtaer droped still need to sized/ lubed and aged for two weeks before being fired.

I agree that most 9MM .356 is to small ,.357 works for many, some like .358 and .358 will work in most but there are a few w9th tight chambers where the extra 0.001 makes the round to big.

Dia. matters a lot , hardness also matters and so does velocity which is the end results of many things.

Some recomended reducing the load which may help but can sometimes make leading worse. Some loads in fact generate enough pressure to upset (increase the dia.) of the bullets base and thus form a tighter gas seal and thus less leading. Reduce such a load and leading gets worse. Powders have different burn rates often a slower burning powder will help reduce leading because it does not melt the boolits base as badly. Also a slower burning powder starts the boolits off slower from the chamber and sometimes helps to prevent slipage at the start of the rifling.


These few variables and many more is why use a larger boolit , increase or decrease the powder charge,change powder, change alloy ,change hardness, change boolit lube while helpful suggestions and surely one or more in combination will help maaay not provide the best answer.

I have posted that the 9MM is a difficult round to load for and then most reply that I am wrong and it is no more difficult than any other. IMO the .45 ACP is the easiest semi-auto pistol to load for but a .38 Special revolver is the easiest handgun to reload for.

I have loaded .380 ,9MM, 38 Spec..45ACP, for pistols,.221 for a bolt action handgun , .38 Spec. ,.357 Mag, 44 Spec. ,.44 Mag. for revolvers and have been able to load cast boolit rounds for all that had mininum leading. I have loaded for my personal firearms and I have loaded for fellow gun club members and even for a indoor firing range ( yes I had a Class 06 FFL).

My point is do not get to hung up on one magic cure. Just becuase this worked in that firearm does not mean it is the universal fix.

[40Super]

^ that sums it up nicely. Especially the aging for couple weeks, that makes a difference.
My XDm's are tight and won't allow a boolit .002' oversize. In 9mm the limit is .357, above that it jams because the boolit won't go into the throat. I wonder if those that run only .358(I do in several, but not all) seat their bullets to not be in the throat at all and then at firing it is forced through or if they just never run into a tight chamber. Just wondering ,not tryin to argue with anybody.

[strongbow67]

Thanks for the responses, these were over a month old I had to wait a month for my star sizer after I cast them.I just made a dummy round and pulled it and it still measures .356. My mould does not drop quite big enough for .358 as I would like to shoot this boolit in my .357 but cannot. these were all clip-on no stiky weights what is the best thing to add to the alloy to harden it? linotype?

[40Super]

Lino would be the best way to harden them. Try a little lamenting to get the mold to drop at least .0005" bigger if not .001",just to make sure you have big enough boolits. You can definitely try them as it drops now but harder to see if it works , but it is likely to continue leading to some degree if too small. Do you have any other powders to try also? Some slower ones?

[RobS]

The most economical way to harden those WW bullets is to water quench them from the mold. So in your reloading process you went from .3565" to .356", not too much of a difference but could be just enough to give you issues. Also a harder boolit often times will size a bit larger when using the same sizing die so you may try to water quench and wait for the boolits to age harden then lube/size them to see what you get. The harder boolit will also be less likely to swage down in the case when reloading.

I do know that my XD has or I should say had a short throat that was before I worked on it though. The short throat can limit the use of a larger diameter boolit unless you seat with a deeper COAL so it will still chamber. I know that people say they use air cooled with a .358" diameter boolit and it works which makes sense in that if the case/reloading process swaged down the base of their boolit then this is way to bring about a larger diameter boolit when it comes out of the case upon firing. The other options, which details making sure your boolit is the intended diameter when fired, is using an expander plug that will open up the brass deep enough for the base of a softer boolit to not be swage down or make a harder boolit to ensure that it is capable of taking the stress or pressures of the case/reloading process.

I have done all the routes mentioned above in various situations. As an example, for my super soft bubble gum HP rounds I have to use an expander plug that will go down as far as I plan on seating my boolits to ensure that there isn't any case swage. Then I water quench 40 S&W boolits because its easier than me making up another custom expander plug and two the mold would need to drop another .0005 to .001 to make a softer boolit work in the firearm I shooting the boolits from.

At the end of the day it's about boolit fit..........after the boolit comes out of the reloaded case that is.

[popper]

Rotometals super hard.

[runfiverun]

read robS's post again, the rifling start on many new pistols is exactly where the chamber ends.
simply trying to go bigger creates more problems. [you start peeling the alloy back]
you have to basically go correct size for the barrel. and use a harder alloy.
i'd go a click bigger to counter act the loading squish, and water drop the boolits.

[strongbow67]

thanks guys,I'll try ways to harden them. is there a way to enlarge a star sizing die? I only have the .356 die not .357 or should I try the harder boolit route first before the die?

[RobS]

With no altering to sizing dies, the harder boolit may work. From the same die, I typically get .0005 or a bit larger boolit diameter when sizing water quenched WW alloy vs air cooled WW alloy.

You can open up sizing dies by wrapping a 1" strip of dry/wet 220 grit, then followed by 320 or 400 grit sand paper around a split rod and chucking it into a power drill running it at a slow speed. I've honed out many lee and Lyman/RCBS dies this way. With the Lyman/RCBS dies start from the bottom so you don't over do the mouth radius of the die.

[RobS]

Here is a good one for honing a sizing die:
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/How%20to%20Hone%20a%20Size%20Die.pdf

[runfiverun]

go slow and measure often.
you are only going ONE thousandths, and a half might be enough.

[prs]

These days, many of us have exhausted our supply of linotype and SuperHard means waiting on the brown truck. If you have a bag of hard shot shell shot on hand, it will have a dose of antimony and a good trace of arsenic to boot. The Lyman cast handbook should have the table for percentages. If the barrel has traces of leading from a previous shoot, it will tend to grab more lead as you shoot again. I have found that a small fluff of fine grade bronze wool laid over a patch soaked in Kroil does a good job of getting all the lead off the steel PDQ. Another thing to consider is the abruptness of the chamber meeting the lands. If that transition is sharp, its gonna cut lead on any WC or SWC design.

prs