Sizing resistance - advice needed

[OnceFired]

Hey all

So I had my 2nd casting session recently, after Lee sent me back my 6-cavity 9mm 356 mold. It apparently had not been lubricated well enough, and had developed tiny lead burrs that kept it from closing properly. That was why I was having so many "connected" casting failures on my first round. I don't want my boolits to literally have wings - figurative ones are just fine.

Now that's fixed as I am now using Gulf wax to lube the mould, so I started round two. I re-smelted pretty much everything.

I came out with quite a few much better boolits. Water quenched just so I could handle them faster. I had a couple problems where the same cavity kept sticking - so clearly I need to look at what is causing that. But, overall I had a much better casting session. About 99% of the boolits looked usable to me. Although I think I am still cutting the sprue plate too early, as the sprue hole area seems to smear just a little bit from time to time.

Anyhoo - on to the next step, which is where I had some problems. I have a Lee sizing die of course, to match my 356 casts. While sizing most of the bullets went nice & smooth (properly lubed & dried with Liquid Alox) a handful of them were a REAL bear to get through the sizer. Maybe about 30-50 out of 1,000 took a LOT of force to go through the die. I'm a big guy - and I was surprised how hard those were to size.

I took a photo of the before & after. There were a bunch of bullets (not just 30-50) with a great deal of shiny lead exposed, as opposed to the duller/lubed surface visible. The bullets on the right are before (lubed) and on the left are immediately after sizing.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8239/8575326747_7ff2c45366.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/8575326747/)
010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/8575326747/) by ZombieApoc (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

Here's a photo of the punch. You can see a ring of lead around the base of the punch. I cleared that off maybe 10 times during the session. It had far more metal accumulating there than I anticipated.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8230/8576452226_46c8691c17.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/8576452226/)
008 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93660723@N05/8576452226/) by ZombieApoc (http://www.flickr.com/people/93660723@N05/), on Flickr

What am I doing wrong if these boolits took that much force to get through the sizer? Could I have damaged the die? The only way I can avoid putting too-big of boolits through there is to size every one with a caliper. That seems excessive. But, by the time I figure out if the boolit is "too big" - it's already stuck in the die, and it's easier to push it through than pull it out.

Love to have some advice here. I'll post more casting pics shortly.

ZAG

[Jim..47]

Are you lubing them before you size them? If not that thats likely the problem?

[.22-10-45]

What dia. are the as-cast bullets? Are some larger than others? What is the dia. of sizing die..not the number it's stamped with..the actual inside dia.? A ring of lead coming off when sizing sounds excessive to me.

[MtGun44]

Use Bull Plate lube from Bullshop, member here. Gulf wax will burn on and
leave a nasty mess with time.

Bill

[Foxcatcher]

What are you using these for and have you slugged the gun they are intended for???

I bought the .356 die and found that it is almost useless for 9mm. Most of what I have read is that most 9 mm, including both mine, like .357 and up. I found this out the hard way. Heavy leading in my first round of castings.

As for your die, what are the bullets dropping from the mold at?? My Lee 105 drops them at .360 and they do give some resistance if I try to run them through the .356 die.

Just remember, these are ramblings from a noob that has just went through this.

Don

[williamwaco]

Hey all



Anyhoo - on to the next step, which is where I had some problems. I have a Lee sizing die of course, to match my 356 casts. While sizing most of the bullets went nice & smooth (properly lubed & dried with Liquid Alox) a handful of them were a REAL bear to get through the sizer. Maybe about 30-50 out of 1,000 took a LOT of force to go through the die. I'm a big guy - and I was surprised how hard those were to size.


ZAG

I have seen that many times.

It is caused by bullets that are SIGNIFICANTLY over sized. For example my 358-158-SWC mold usually drops .359 to .360.

Occasionally they are as large as .366 to .367.

This is caused by the mold not being closed completely - or being forced open again after closing.

See:

http://reloadingtips.com/pages/missing_tumble_lube_grooves.htm

[MT Chambers]

Spray some kinda lube on them before you run them into that die.

[DLCTEX]

Holding pressure on the sprue plate lever when casting can open the mould slightly, causing oversize boolits. Keep fingers off that handle when casting. Once you have achieved consistent size, try shooting those TL boolits as cast. It's a rare 9mm that shoots 356 boolits successfully. 357 -8 is the norm for happy shooting. Gulf wax for mould lube is of the devil:twisted: get some Bullplate lube.

[trixter]

I have been using 2 cycle motor oil (synthetic) on my molds. Id doesn't leave that ugly brown crud on the mold and it seems to work very well. I get a 'Q' tip and put it into the oil. Squish it off in side the bottle (I keep a small amount in a pill bottle and refill as needed), then dob it off on a towel, I start with the bolt that holds the handles together, then the bolt that holds the sprue plate on, then both sides of the mold block, being careful not to get any in the cavities, then circle each hole in the bottom of the sprue plate, and then the top of the sprue plate where it goes under the guide bolt. Then I set it on the hot plate and, well you know the rest of the story.

[mdi]

If those bullets are that much harder to size, and leave a lead ring, they are obviously too big! Mike a few, find out how much bigger they are than the ones that size normally. You mentioned a "sticky" cavity, so sort the bullets by cavity and find out if one cavity is producing oversize bullets. Sizing bullets via Lee push through dies is simply swaging down a lead cylinder a few thousandths off the diameter and if one cylinder is bigger in diameter it will be more difficult/more force needed to resize it...

[Walter Laich]

It could be that the DNA in your lead is still viable. This will cause the bullets to grow.

If left unchecked for a number of months a batch of 100 or so bullets can completely fill a garage and even burst open the roof. This is true! I saw it on the internet!

The best and only solution is to buy some Pb DNA unobtainium which always seems to be out of stock no matter where you shop.

Next best is to buy another, larger caliber firearm (.357 Mag?) so you can cut down the Zombies as soon as they show their ugly heads.

Remember, Zombie Preparediness is a personal choice.

[Jim..47]

It could be that the DNA in your lead is still viable. This will cause the bullets to grow.

If left unchecked for a number of months a batch of 100 or so bullets can completely fill a garage and even burst open the roof. This is true! I saw it on the internet!

The best and only solution is to buy some Pb DNA unobtainium which always seems to be out of stock no matter where you shop.

Next best is to buy another, larger caliber firearm (.357 Mag?) so you can cut down the Zombies as soon as they show their ugly heads.

Remember, Zombie Preparediness is a personal choice.

All of my Zombies left the state, that is after I showed them my 45/70 pistol. :bigsmyl2:

[OnceFired]

Hey all

Thanks for all the replies. I'll measure the sized boolits and report back.

ZAG

[detox]

Tumble lube your bullets before sizing and after sizing. I warm alox in microwave for 45 secounds them lube bullets in clear baggie.

My Lee sizer needed more polishing for smoother sizing. I used 900 grit sandpaper wrapped around wooden dowel. Then i chucked dowel in drill and lightly polished insides of die. Be careful not to go oversize.

[OnceFired]

Ok, had a chance to check this out faster than I thought I would.

I sampled 8 bullets. They measured from .356" to .357" on the caliper. In metric, they were 9.04mm to 9.08mm.

Yes, all bullets were lubricated with liquid alox before sizing. I have not lubed after sizing, since I may not be done sizing quite yet. :) If I re-size, I will re-lube prior, and after of course.

I cast with Lee's TL356-124-2R 6-cavity mold. The sizing die is marked Lee-356-E2 has an inside diameter of .356-8, depending on how much force I apply when measuring. But to be fair, I don't think the caliper interior measurement blades fit all the way up to the choke point in the die.

ZAG

edit: I did find a tiny bit of lead in the sizing die. It was about 1mm or less, on one side, mostly horizontal. But it came off instantly with a q-tip, and there doesn't appear to be any undue wear on the die interior otherwise.

[OnceFired]

I missed a reply to one point: I am certain I am not touching the sprue handle while casting. That was a topic for Round 1 as a potential culprit for my winged bullet castings. I made sure I was not doing that.

Couple related questions, too:

1) Should I cool the mold by touching the bottom of the aluminum to the top of a wet sponge periodically? I believe I have seen this mentioned here & elsewhere as a means to cool the mold.

2) I thought I should lubricate underneath the sprue plate, right where each of the the pour holes are. I have not done so, for fear of getting any melted wax into the mold cavities. I do get a bit of burring on the underside of that funnel shaped bit of the sprue plate holes, just at the rim of the funnel opening. And, it is always on the side where the sprue plate does its cutting. I tend to wait longer than I think I need to before cutting, but I wait because the lead has been smearing if I do not. I believe the root cause is because the mold is getting a little too hot.

Advice on both points, in addition to the sizing issue above would be welcome.

[mdi]

Number your cavities (in yer head if necessary) and put all the bullets cast from cavity No. 1 in a pile. Same with the next 5. Not a random sample. Measure with micrometers if you can (unless you have a top of the line caliper and a lot of experience with it). If one in a bunch is oversize you need to find out if the big one come from the same cavity.

Lubing a bullet mold can be tricky but as MtGun44 states, use Bullplate, (some use synthetic 2-cycle motor oil) applied with a Q-tip, very sparingly! Paraffin will leave a mess...

I keep a spray bottle of water on my bench to squirt a too hot mold to cool it a bit, and a wet rag or dampened sponge will work. Just touch the mold to the rag lightly and it'll bring down the temp. Practice to get this technique down

[popper]

Measure the pusher stem, compare to sized CB. What is your alloy? Even though yo WD, it may be too soft. Make sure any lube you use is DRY before sizing. The donut is what is shaved off after you size , yours are big enough to require a lot of force.

[Wayne Smith]

Touch the sprue plate to a wet rag to cool. Not the mold body. You want to keep the body hot. Aluminium cools too quickly as it is.

[gwpercle]

First, use synthetic 2-stroke oil on a cotton swab to lube mould. 2nd, size your bullets to 357 I discovered that most 9mm like cast in that dia. 3rd Stop hardening your boolits by cold water dropping, a hard boolit is harder to shove through the die. And when you do size it you work the hard surface and it becomes soft again. Just air cool and then size. Only cool the mould if the boolits start getting a frosted appearance, even a frosted boolit is not that bad, I've shot plenty. Be sure and let the sprue solidify completely before opening so as not to tear the base. I cast with two moulds, filling one while the other cools, that helps with overheating. Big learning curve but keep at it and you will develop a rhythm that works for you.
Gary

[DLCTEX]

The Bullplate and 2 cycle lubes will help prevent the smearing on the sprue plate. I put a light application on and then wipe with a cotton cloth. Less is more, you don't want to get it in the cavities.

[bobthenailer]

another thing that can occure besides the lead burs between the mould faces , is not keeping the mould closed all the way or not seating all the way when closed ! Try after the mould is closed giveing the mould or handel hinge pin a tap so they seat togeather perfectly to elimate oversized bullets.

[dakotashooter2]

Another thing to consider is that maybe a couple holes in your mold are oversized. It can happen. Try casing about 5-10 bullets, individually, in each hole and see how they measure up. Also if the mold is not closing properly it is possible the end holes are the only ones seeing a significant increased in size. Note that if they are sizing hard they are probably a bit heavier too. I'd sort those and load them as a separate lot just for consistency.