need help picking a 45/70 bullet

[GregP42]

Hey guys,

I have an old Rolling Block that has a strange size 45/70 barrel on it. It has a 447 bore with a 453 groove. This barrel is giving me fits, a postel style won't chamber unless it is way back in the case, the Paul Jones improved government I tried had the same problem as the nose on it is 450 also. Does anyone know of a good mold that would drop a nice round nose similar to the 457125 lyman, but with a smaller nose and base? Or is there a 440 paper patch mold out there somewhere maybe? Any ideas you have would be great, except to rebarrel it ;)

Thanks,
Greg

[waksupi]

Gregg, for an oddball, I'd suggest doing a chamber cast, and sending it off to one of the custom makers. I don't know if Dan at Mountain Molds can cut that long of a bullet, but he would be a good man to check with.

[45 2.1]

Saeco makes a 500 gr. RN that is designated as the "1881" for the trapdoors that is a copy of the Government bullet. Mine casts .447 on the nose and fits a tight bore rolling block that I have perfectly. Maybe you will luck out also

[GregP42]

Saeco makes a 500 gr. RN that is designated as the "1881" for the trapdoors that is a copy of the Government bullet. Mine casts .447 on the nose and fits a tight bore rolling block that I have perfectly. Maybe you will luck out also

45 2.1 (Got to love that handle)

What is the size on the driving bands of that round? Is it anywhere close to .453? Also what alloy are you casting these in? I will be doing mine in 30:1 since it is shot with black powder.

Greg

[GregP42]

Gregg, for an oddball, I'd suggest doing a chamber cast, and sending it off to one of the custom makers. I don't know if Dan at Mountain Molds can cut that long of a bullet, but he would be a good man to check with.

Waksupi,

I will drop him a line, I also just found out that Pioneer is less than 30 miles from me! Just over the county line to my north, so I will have to call them too, with them that close maybe they could custom build some thing... Why does this sound like it is going to be lots of money all of a sudden?

Greg

[waksupi]

Greg, if anyone ever told you that shooting the old buffalo rifles was going to be cheap, they were lying to you. They take more fussing with, than any thing else I have ever shot. But very satisfying once you get them working well for you.
You might try putting some of your bullets in the oven just below slump temperature. Leave them for an hour, and then shut off the oven and let them go dead cold. This should soften them up to near pure lead hardness. Then try out a few loads. You should be able to determine if the lead hardness is a factor.

[powderburnerr]

I have heard nothing but good about pioneer products, been wanting to try one of their moulds hope you get one and report on it ........ Dean

[GregP42]

Greg, if anyone ever told you that shooting the old buffalo rifles was going to be cheap, they were lying to you. They take more fussing with, than any thing else I have ever shot. But very satisfying once you get them working well for you.
You might try putting some of your bullets in the oven just below slump temperature. Leave them for an hour, and then shut off the oven and let them go dead cold. This should soften them up to near pure lead hardness. Then try out a few loads. You should be able to determine if the lead hardness is a factor.

Waksupi,

I knew it would cost lots of money ;) It is sort of like the mopars here at the house, it costs money to play if you want to have fun. I will try the oven trick on a few of the ones I have cast, but the main problem with them is the nose is just too big, they fit my other 45/70 fine, but this one... just way too tight.

Greg

[GregP42]

I have heard nothing but good about pioneer products, been wanting to try one of their moulds hope you get one and report on it ........ Dean


Powderburnerr,

I will call him Monday since I am off work and see if I can swing up there and see him. I also have heard nothing but good about him, we will see how his prices are, I know an adjustable paper patch costs lots of money ;) but a normal mould shuoldn't be that much I bet.

Greg

[beagle]

If you know anyone with a Lyman 457124, some of them have small nose diameters as they were made for the old trapdoors and were made that way to chamber in BP fouled barrels./beagle

[45 2.1]

45 2.1 (Got to love that handle)
What is the size on the driving bands of that round? Is it anywhere close to .453? Also what alloy are you casting these in? I will be doing mine in 30:1 since it is shot with black powder.Greg

Greg-
Mine casts 0.4585" on the bands when cast between 40:1 and 50:1. Don't worry about band diameter. You should size so a sized bullet will just slip fit in a fired case that has no vestige of crimp left.

[MGySgt]

Greg - If you have a Lyman or RCBS Sizer Luber - you can get a sizer die of the correct diameter, set the dept you need and size the NOSE down to fit what ever you need. .447, .445.etc.

Just run the nose in as far as need be but not enough to touch the driving bands.

Drew

[Buckshot]

............Those barrel dimensions sound like an old Sharps barrel. Some ran 453-454". These shallow groove barrels were intended for paper patched slugs that were basicly bore size and patched up. The barrel on my MAS36 conversion to 45-70 is a .450x.458" barrel and in testing it out (an overall brutal ordeal) I had to size the noses on Lee 450 and 500 gr slugs. They'd both drop about .452-.453" and it took a mallet to close the bolt.

I just put a .450" die in the Lyman 45 and pushed them into it nose first. Sized the noses very well, and with a bit more pressure would put a nice taper on the front drive band. They chambered like champs after that.

RCBS makes a 370gr FN mould for the 43 Mauser that drops .446-.447". Patch'em up with a 9lb paper.

..............Buckshot