Nominations from the gallery

[truthisdiscovered]

It’s time to pull the proverbial trigger, but I'd like some input.

I'm ready to purchase my 1st boolit mold and get into the game here. I own several .44 magnum firearms in a variety of formats. Ruger Vaquero, Ruger carbine, S&W 629, Marlin 1894. All of these are in stainless.

I'd like to be able to cast for target and hunting, mags and specials.

What's your recommendation on a versatile friendly- casting 1st mold?

TID

[Pilgrim]

RCBS mould (s), any flavor you like that fits your guns. I'd make sure it's a GC mould as those will be more forgiving re: leading, and will be more likely successful in your rifles. Have fun!!

[turmech]

Lyman 429421 or a clone of it. Might as well start with the original.

[chsparkman]

Lyman 429421 or a clone of it. Might as well start with the original.

+1. Can't beat it.

[turmech]

After re-reading you original post, the 429421 won't feed crimped in the crimp groove for the marlin. I would also suspect the carbine would be similar, but I don't know. A round nose flat point of 240-250 grains would be best if looking for one mold for all. The marlin will most likely want fat bullets, like 432. The revolvers will likely do fine with .432 the marlin probably won't do well with .430.

The Ranch Dog bullets were designed for the marlin would be good for all. However he is currently not selling them. NOE had mad a clone and may have some for sale. Accurate molds can make you one. I shoot an Accurate 275432M in my 444 marlin and use it some in my 44 SBH. It may be too heavy for the twist in a 44 marlin though.

[runfiverun]

i'm sure the carbine and the marlin are not going to like swc type boolits.

the lyman 429667 would be my recommendation but I doubt you wanna lap it out to make it work for you, like I did mine.
I would get something super similar from accurate.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=7
the 230-b or 240-e would do nicely.
don't be surprised if you end up with 2-3 different molds.

[truthisdiscovered]

That's what I was expecting... the Keith style SWC for the revolvers, and something a bit more finicky for the long guns.

I have noticed that even with the vanilla manufactures loads available to the nom-reloading public; the Ruger carbine only likes certain brands of Remington mags. Some cheaper stuff will not cycle the system, and you end up with a box of boolits for the Vaquero instead.

As a baby step, I'd be fine with just casting for the handguns right now, with specials and lighter mag loads, I could perhaps learn without GCing.

Am I setting myself up for unnecessary heartache?

TID

[44man]

The truth is it might take more then one mold. The Ruger rifle is a pain with the short magazine. The Marlin needs a fat boolit that will feed and eject.

[turmech]

As a baby step, I'd be fine with just casting for the handguns right now, with specials and lighter mag loads, I could perhaps learn without GCing.

You won't need GC even with the hottest loads in the revolvers provided you have the correct size and alloy. Straight WW will work plain based.

GC's can allow for softer alloys meant for expansion or hollow points. They can also help make up for the wrong size. GC become more necessary with the long guns.

[truthisdiscovered]

So then, a non-GC SWC 240g .429 for the revolvers, and a RNFP GC 240g .430 for the rifles?

Barrel slugging?

TID

[turmech]

There are stickies on barrel slugging. You will need to slug the barrel to know for sure what size you need. .429 is rarely the right size.

For revolvers I have gotten by with slugging the cylinder throats and shooting a bullet which is the same size or slightly larger than the throats. You cylinder throats are going to act as sizer. What I mean is no matter how large the bullet diameter is when you load they will be sized to the cylinder throat. If your throats are as large or larger than the barrel grove diameter your good (and most cases they are). If they are not then opening the throats up may me necessary. I would find the largest throat diameter of all your revolvers and size to that. As long as the chamber in all the gun you should be fine.

The marlin would typically want .431 or more often .432 but once again it is either slug or buy load and see how it works.

[44man]

So then, a non-GC SWC 240g .429 for the revolvers, and a RNFP GC 240g .430 for the rifles?

Barrel slugging?

TID
Rarely .429" for a revolver and both might need .432" or larger. You need to measure. Slug the bore and throats. Stop reading rags and come to understand.

[cbrick]

So then, a non-GC SWC 240g .429 for the revolvers, and a RNFP GC 240g .430 for the rifles?

Barrel slugging? TID

You need to properly measure the throats and size to a mild snug fit in the throats. Then slug and measure the groove diameter of the bore but not to size to, size to fit the throats. You only need to know the groove diameter to know that it is at or a tick SMALLER than throat diameters.

44man is right, forget what the gun rags say about .429". Best accuracy with the least leading will come with bullets that fit. FIT means they fit the throats with a groove diameter slightly smaller. Rarely will that be .429", you must measure to know. You need to use a micrometer to make these measurements, calipers are not accurate enough to tell you what you need to know.

Rick

[Jack Stanley]

Get by with just one bullet design ?? Maybe ..... I have S&Ws and a Marlin lever and the Smiths are from the era that prefer larger diameter bullets in the .432" range . Fortunately the Marlin works well with this as well I don't have any idea what your Rugers might like .

As for one bullet for both I thought of that years ago and had Veral Smith make a two hundred fifty grain bullet that would feed well in the Marlin . You know the revolvers don't care much as long as you can get them in place ;-) I asked for a gas checked mold because I intended to load that particular bullet in the top half of the speed range . The nose design would let me know what it was because I was going to only load it that way . Lower velocity load would have a different style bullet . Veral with make a mold any way you want and there is no reason you can't load from mild to wild with a plain base bullet . Like many of the guys here will tell you , fit is everything .

I would suggest visiting the LBT site or see what designs Tom has at Accurate . Find one that will run like corn through a goose in the lever and the revolvers will be easy to please with the same one .

Jack

[Larry Gibson]

Since loading for handguns and rifles I concur that for best results more than one mould will be needed; 2 would be the minimum. I suggest one of the 200 gr FN "cowboy" bullets for general fun loads in both the revolvers and the rifles. These can be loaded wo 100 - 1200 fps in the rifles with adequate accuracy and will then be a comfortable load in the revolvers. I use the Lee 200 gr cowboy bullet for that purpose. If one wants a bit more bullet the RCBS 44-250-K is and excellent choice. It works very well from low end 44 SPL loads to top end magnum loads in revolvers but in rifles the magnum loads have to be backed off a bit to maintain best accuracy.

For top end magnum loads that will shoot very well in the revolvers and the rifles the Lyman GC'd 429244 is very, very hard to beat.

Larry Gibson

[rockrat]

+1 on the 429421, which does feed in my Marlin, just fine. Check out NOE and Accurate moulds to see what might be available

[paul edward]

My RCBS 44-225 gas check mold drops bullets which work well in revolvers, but, are to long to feed in a Marlin.

The Lee 429-214 works in everything. If I was starting from scratch, I'd start with the Lee 429-200RF.

Used primarily for hunting tin cans, but also good for 1 gallon milk jugs.

[mcnee229]

Along the same lines as the OP, for someone just getting into the game, and casting for the .44, what other equipment reccomendations have the group? IE, if an acquaintance wanted to get setup to cast, what would you tell them to get?

Also, are there molds/brands that are just plain ones to avoid?

Scott

[runfiverun]

the rnfp is my number one go to mold if starting with something new.
it will shoot well in both the levergun and the revolvers.
the diameter for just starting out would be tipped towards the marlin first.
then tried in the revolvers at that diameter just to check chambering.
starting with a slew of guns all at once really let's you know what different makers think a saami chamber is.

now the ruger carbine is a different thing altogether.
everything I have seen about them points to a rnfp [and possibly a gas check]
you have to watch the magazine length with them,and the gas ports.

[cbrick]

Also, are there molds/brands that are just plain ones to avoid? Scott

Oh, now there is a can of worms. :mrgreen:

Welcome to the forum mcnee229,

Rick

[truthisdiscovered]

For the record... the only gun rag I've read is this place. I figred to get the best information I should come to the best site...

I've spent the past few days reading Fryxell's book, I think I mentioned that I was a beginner.

Beyond that, clear as mud fellas.

TID

[cbrick]

Don't get discouraged, it's really not rocket science though some posts will make it seem like it is. As with anything new there is a learning curve, before ya know it you'll be answering questions from other newbies and telling them where you went wrong. :mrgreen:

Rick

[Jack Stanley]

[QUOTE=mcnee229;2126567]Along the same lines as the OP, for someone just getting into the game, and casting for the .44, what other equipment reccomendations have the group? IE, if an acquaintance wanted to get setup to cast, what would you tell them to get?

Also, are there molds/brands that are just plain ones to avoid?

On the avoid list unless you can cast bullets from it first and measure them is anything made by Lyman in the last five or six years .

I've had several RCBS and they have proven very good over the years . I've got one Cramer I bought used and it is very good . There are a few H&G molds that are about the best I've seen . LEE has had their ups and downs in quality but I still have and use a few of the six cavity molds they offered .

Jack

[dbosman]

Keeping in mind that a rnfp can work in more instances than a swc,
I happen to like the 429421, which feeds in my Ruger Ranch rifle, just fine. Mine is one of the early production, though, so your mileage may vary.

[truthisdiscovered]

Keeping in mind that a rnfp can work in more instances than a swc,
I happen to like the 429421, which feeds in my Ruger Ranch rifle, just fine. Mine is one of the early production, though, so your mileage may vary.

Are you talking about the Deerfield carbine?

64775

Mine's probably 25-30 years old.

TID

[EMC45]

429421

[truthisdiscovered]

A bit of an update...


I slugged 2 of the 4 bbls and have a couple questions.

The mod .29 has an odd number of grooves, and therefore is more difficult to measure. I have tried to place the mic so that it straddles 2 of the opposing grooves of a c/l groove against the anvil. Is there a better or more accurate way to do this?

The mod .29 seems to have a groove dia. of .429, and a cyl dia. of .432.

The Vaquero was a little easier, having 6 grooves so that the mic rests comfortably on 2 opposing surfaces. It miced at .430 and .432 (Bore and cyl respectively)

Question: I've read recommendations here (and only here) that the mold dia. should be .001 over the bore. That would put the S&W at .430 and the Ruger at .431. I doubt that I will ever shoot anything higher than a .44 spl. out of the Ruger (magnums hurt like **** when fired through that thing) is it reasonable that both guns could operate effectively with a .430?

TID

[cbrick]

Yes it is reasonable that .430" would work in both revolvers but if it were me I would size the Smith slightly larger. A mild snug fit in the throats has always worked best for me.

As for the Ruger being uncomfortable with magnum loads the fix is extremely easy. Replace the grips with a set of Pachmeyer rubber. You will be amazed at the difference and you'll shoot better also.

Rick

[fcvan]

I had one of the Ruger semiauto carbines a long time ago. A buddy had a redhawck and wanted the rifle to match. I knew a guy who had the carbine and told him the usual 'let me know if you want to sell' line. He did so I bought it. It took my other buddy 5 years to get around to picking it up so the whole time I had it I never shot it as I never really considered it mine. He said it was a sweet shooter.

[truthisdiscovered]

I have not yet slugged the Marlin 1894 or the Ruger carbine. If they end up being different than the handguns... oh well, it is what it is. If that happens I would think about a specific round profile for hunting, probably a HP.

The revolvers probably don't much care what profile to select, so something generic I suppose, RNFP perhaps, or SWC. But if it turns out that the long guns will accept the same .430 dia., I'd like to know what you guys think about a common profile that will work in all 4 guns. I suppose the most finicky will be the Ruger auto.

Thanks in advance for your help.

TID

[Shuz]

I think you would be most happy with the Lee 200RNFP in your search for a boolit that will work in all of the guns you mentioned, provided you can achieve the correct size. In my experience with Lee .44 moulds, most do not achieve .431 let alone .432 or .433 diameter unless you "Beagle" the mould. I recently lucked into a clean 6 cavity 200RNFP from a member here, that casts all 6 cavities in the .430 to .431 area, and I have been able to bump them to .431 all the way around by using a little extra force on my Saeco lubrisizer.

[mdi]

So then, a non-GC SWC 240g .429 for the revolvers, and a RNFP GC 240g .430 for the rifles?

Barrel slugging?

TID
.429" is prolly too small. Measure the cylinder throats of your revolvers and size the bullets to that same size (my 629 has throats of .430"-.431" measured with pin gauges). All the 420421s I shoot in my 629 are sized .431". No leading using WW alloy air cooled,...

BTW; SAAMI specs for revolver barrel groove dia. is .429" while rifle groove diameter is .431".

[truthisdiscovered]

If manufactures followed standardized spec data I'd expect barrel slugging to be profitless.

The throats on both revolvers sized .432 with slugging and measuring with a Lyman mic.

The .629 was a little harder to measure because of the 5 land pattern, but I feel good that I got it right at .429, the Ruger at .430 and only expected to shoot specials for the most part. That means a 429421 by Lyman throwing .430 sized with a .430 die should work in both guns. The rifles may be another story who knows... but for the revolvers it's a done deal.

Question is... which bullet profile would best fit all 4 (if there is such an one) if it turns out I can shoot a .430 out of the rifles?


TID

[mdi]

If manufactures followed standardized spec data I'd expect barrel slugging to be profitless.

The throats on both revolvers sized .432 with slugging and measuring with a Lyman mic.

The .629 was a little harder to measure because of the 5 land pattern, but I feel good that I got it right at .429, the Ruger at .430 and only expected to shoot specials for the most part. That means a 429421 by Lyman throwing .430 sized with a .430 die should work in both guns. The rifles may be another story who knows... but for the revolvers it's a done deal.

Question is... which bullet profile would best fit all 4 (if there is such an one) if it turns out I can shoot a .430 out of the rifles?


TID
Machining tolerances of a few thousandths of an inch and assemble methods will cause barrel dimension variations and you'll need to know what your barrel measures.

If the throats measure .432", why are you sizing to .430"?

I have 2 round nose flat point molds in .44, 240 gr. and 265 gr. from Ranch Dog that shoot well from all my .44 Magnums, It shoots well in my Ruger SBH, sized to .430", and from my 629 sized at .430"+ (both with .430"+ throats), and in my Puma (with a groove diameter of .432"+) when sized th .432". Accurate in my revolvers, and single shot Contender, and chambers/feeds well in them all...

[MtGun44]

The "what is the best mold" is a bit like, which is better Ford or Chevy, Blonde or brunette, Coke or Pepsi.

Going to be a LOT of opinions. Personally, I favor the 429421 in revolvers, and it will work just fine in my
Win 94, but not sure about the Marlin feeding. One poster above says it feeds in his Marlin, so that is good.
Ruger --- zero idea what will fit mag and feed and then, by the way, you have to fit the barrel and chamber
so, this is a science project by itself. I'd suggest buying a RCBS 44-250 - K to start, get it working in the
revolver (likely to be the most direct solution) and then see if this revolver load will work in the others. If
not, modify diam as needed until you decide that a second mold is absolutely required. By then you will
know a LOT about what does NOT work and WHY, so you can get the second mold with a high probability
of solving the remainder of the problem once and for all.

Bill