32-20 crimp and xtp or cast ?

[boca]

Hi Guys
I have 2 questions The first is how much crimp do you recommend for this case with cast 115gr bullets. The pic shows my crimp ,a little on the heavy side ? . Will I benefit with a factory style crimp such as the lee?64571
I want to cast for the 32-20 I like the fact that with jacketed bullets I can archive full velocity which gives me the flattest trajectory and also down range velocity. I don't want the bullet to zip through the game without dumping its energy within . Can this be achieved with cast bullets and how . Is it feasible to cast bullets with a soft tip and a hard cast base as I have read on this site. Or should I try for a hollow point cast mould. I have enclosed a 2 projectiles both 85g xtps ( I will be using heavier projectiles in the future for hunting)
The l/h proj. fired in water at 15m remaining weight 63grs
the r/h proj. recovered from game at 110m remaining weight 70grs 64570 game that I will be shooting with this round are rabbits and fox's etc .95% of shots fire are plink cast bullets like the above its only 5% for hunting so a little time can be spent in the casting to achieve a effective bullet
If any one had any recovered cast projectiles I would be interested. velocity is 1975fps out of a savage 23. I would appreciate any comments as I would like to cast but do not want to let go of the jacketed bullets , convince me please
Regards Boca

[VA Shooter]

You might to try the 311008 Lyman 115 mold

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Savage bolt gun, clip magazine? You may be fine without the roll crimp.
I use to load for a Martini action 32-20, currently loading for a Winnie 92 25-20 and both cases only give the slightest taper crimp. Mostly in the interest of case life, and both do group a little better.

If you want to stay at high end loads best stay with "J words", be ready for your cases to streach real fast.
Hope yah got a trimmer.

But I reckon the 32-20 and 25-20 show there true magic when allowed to relax and throw cast bullet with a good meplat out at around the 1400fps range.
Will kill small game just as dead, without spreading the animal accross the pasture.
Moderate loads, kind on cases, kind on old guns kind on hearing and don't clear the whole area out.

If you need flat shooting, another caliber may be in order. JMO.

[Whit Spurzon]

We managed to recover some cast bullets during a ballistics test we conducted using a steer who's time had come.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/32-20recovered.jpg

Before butchering

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/Theset-up.jpg

The three we caught.
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/WhitSpurzon/Recoveredbullets.jpg

The 32-20 was the second best penetrator.

[L Ross]

Yipes! 1900+ fps, you'd have no useable rabbit meat left and I don't think anyone would buy your fox pelts. I run my 32 wcf about 1,000 fps slower than that when I hunt rabbits and squirrels with my old Stevens Ideal. I still managed to drop a running coon across the oats field 135 paces away.
Anyhow, the Lee factory crimp die for the 32-20 is a collet die and does a beautiful job of crimping those slightly fragile cases, and you can apply as little or as much as you want. I shoot the RCBS 32-90-CM a plain base "cowboy" bullet and the Lee 100 gr. RN, cast about 9 Brinell hardness. I use 4.5 gr. of Unique for 950 fps and 16.5 gr. of 3fg black for 1135 fps. You can shoot it without ear protection and yet it kills small game decisively.

Duke

[JeffinNZ]

XTP's are fantastic but brutal. My Martini .32-20 does very well with a NOE clone of the 311008 at subsonic through a suppressor. It is deadly on small game. For more umph I like a GCed boolit over a full case of H4227 for 1900fps. That levels game nicely but can be hard on meat on small critters.

Re the crimp. Play with it a bit. Sometimes a load likes a little crimp. Sometimes not. Here is my subsonic load burning Green Dot. The larger group is no crimp, the small is a light crimp.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/50mGreenDot4_1gr.jpg

This is the result of a 31133 HP at 1900fps on a hare:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN2131.jpg

[quilbilly]

I am using my 32-20 in a T/C Contender 10" barrel and use no crimp beyond what the Hornady dies put on in initial seating. Since your mod. 23 is a bolt, you may not need much crimp either. My muzzle velocity of 1400 fps gives great accuracy and penetration of 17" of wet phone books at 40 yards with the Lee 115 gr rnfp-gc. With the Speer 120 gr. jhp, penetration is about 11" with slightly better accuracy. When I first got that Contender barrel, I tried velocities as high as 1800 fps but accuracy dropped off rapidly after 1500 fps. My load is about 9 gr. of 2400.

[boca]

Thanks guys for the reply's. The point of over penetration is what I don't want half a cow and 6 milk jugs less would be Ideal great ballistic testing . My uncle and I used to butcher cattle with a .22 hornet and I can see the failings of a light bullet. Jeff do you think the hp cast expands , can you tell the difference between HP and solid on game ? Great country NZ had to import my wife from there, Her life stops when the rugby is on. I was crimping more for load consistency than for tube mag will experiment with that
Looks like I will get the mould from one of the sponsors on this site which I can get HPs and Standard in the same mould
Regrds Boca

[Larry Gibson]

I shoot a couple GC'd softer cast HP'd bullets at 1850 - 1950 fps out of the .30 Carbine for use on varmints up through coyote in size. That's about identical to what you want. As mentioned though they are not for edible small game unless you take head shots only. I the Lyman 311316 (the GC 118 g version of 311008) and the 313631 (the 105 gr SWC design for the 32 H&R). Both are not currently available but can still be found used. Other comparable GC moulds of 110 - 120 gr are available from other makers. I HP mine with the 1/8" Forster HP tool. You can regulate the terminal effect by controlling the alloy and depth of the HP. Cast of softer alloy such as COWWs + 2% tin with 30 - 50 % lead then added will work quite nicely at 1800 - 1900+ fps in you M23 32-20. The GC, soft alloy and HP are the key.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

Light to moderate-at-most crimping has been best for me in 25-20 and 32-20 calibers.

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff do you think the hp cast expands , can you tell the difference between HP and solid on game ? Great country NZ had to import my wife from there, Her life stops when the rugby is on. I was crimping more for load consistency than for tube mag will experiment with that Regrds Boca

Do the HP's expand? Oh, goodness me yes. ACWW alloy, four exit holes on that hare. You can just make out lead fragments on the blood.

So YOU'RE the one stealing our wimmin' folk!

[onceabull]

Met a pair of those wimminfolks in a jewelry (think Jade) store in Hokotika that I'll not be forgetting..I suppose they might be grandmothers by now-- Onceabull

[9.3X62AL]

I don't mean to be THE HERETIC in this thread or on the subject of hollow-points in general......but I've not seen the utility of HP-ing for the game or varmint fields. A good flat-nose has worked very well for me since I got into this hobby field in 1981, and HP-ing during the casting cycle is a complication I would rather not mess with. For large game--in which relatively few shots are fired and a lot of 20-50 rounds may well last several seasons--Bruce B Softpointing answers for me. In the several calibers I've tested (all game-getters like 30-30 WCF, 30-06, 8 x 57, 9.3 x 62, 44 Magnum, and 45-70) there has been ZERO targeting differential between the SP boolits and homogenous castings (usually 92/6/2) fired with the same powder & charge weight. Just about any boolit of any design running 1600-2000 FPS will tear up small and medium critters right properly, and almost always makes a through & through wound track. I haven't--and don't plan on--trying out 22/24/25 caliber softpoints.

[Martin Suiter]

I have almost a full box of factory 32-20 Winchester 100 grain Lubaloy that I'll trade for something in like value. The box has $5.35 marked on the box.....lol. I don't have a clue what there worth. I know they are worth more than that now. I need .45 Colt things....bullets, brass
MARTIN