Newest issue of Handloader

[DeanWinchester]

Anyone read Mike Venturinos column in the latest issue of Handloader about cast bullets in milsurp bolt actions?

I'm sure this guy is more educated than me but these articles make me question why I keep buying this rag. I guess I need SOMETHING to read while taking a dump.

He states that dark bores typically do not shoot cast bullets very well. Huh? All my milsurps have dark bores and they shoot VERY well. He states that slugging the bore (and even though he doesn't state the fact, I bet he doesn't care what the throat diameter is either) is typically not necessary. Reeeeeally?
He believes in a very stout crimp. Uh, why? Enough to hold the bullet in place sure but why so much? I saw a picture there and that's a lot of crimp. In my experiences all I ever get from that is a shaved boolit, but what do I know.
Now, powder is a hot debate and 5744 is a good powder but I balk at the claim it's the best all around starting point.
Then he says he only uses straight Linotype because he wants them HARD. In all I've cast and shot I've never seen a need for anything THAT hard until you get velocities way on up there. If you have a PROPER fit and a good lube like Bens Red or equivalent I've been all over the low to mid 2K fps area with air cooled wheel weights and nary a hint of lead in the bore.

It's no wonder so many people give up and so many people find their way here.


Maybe I'm wrong, I'm certainly not an accredited journalist but I just keep seeing stuff like this and I KNOW people are reading it and taking it for hard fact. Reminds me of the claims that pure JPW could be used for 44 mag bullet lube. Really, someone read that, tried it and wondered where all that globs of lead in their bore came from.

They could stand to hire some of you guys to their writing for them.


.....now somebody comes along to flame me for being a sass mouth little bstd.

[sparky45]

I think you got it about right DW.

[Boyscout]

I know a target shooter with about 2000 lb of linotype and he cast most of his rifle bullets with it. Perhaps Venturino has the same type of access and neither hunts or has to deal with creating his own alloy for anything other than Mil-surp or Black Powder competition. I have lots of wheel weight and a new source for linotype so I am interested in achieving results from what I have on hand starting with wheel weights usually. I don't compete but I would like to be accurate. I will be hunting whitetail with my own cast bullets next year so I trying to find loads that have a max BHN of 15 (Alloy #2) and going down from there as long as I can keep accurate and using a more available source of lead.

[cbrick]

Perhaps you'll get some answers right from the source, Mike is a member here. :mrgreen:

Rick

[Harry O]

As long as the rifling is full height from front to rear of the barrel, I have had no problems with accuracy in dark bores. We are not talking target range groups, but it is at least as well as average groups from a 60 to 100 year old service rifle. If the rifling "dips down" between the front and rear, I don't expect any accuracy. The major problem with dark bores is cleaning. They hold **** in the pits through many, many cleaning patches.

[DeanWinchester]

As long as the rifling is full height from front to rear of the barrel, I have had no problems with accuracy in dark bores. We are not talking target range groups, but it is at least as well as average groups from a 60 to 100 year old service rifle. If the rifling "dips down" between the front and rear, I don't expect any accuracy. The major problem with dark bores is cleaning. They hold **** in the pits through many, many cleaning patches.


All the more reason to give it a thorough enema. Something the writer went on record as calling unnecessary.

[Piedmont]

About 12-15 years ago I was heavily into shooting milsurp rifles and I read one of his articles suggesting linotype was needed to get up the feed ramps. I had been using softer than wheel weight and had no problems. In another article he let the cat out of the bag. He had a big score of linotype so he used store bought 1-20 for his blackpowder stuff and linotype for everything else. He will tell you in his articles that you need linotype for auto pistols too.

This is the guy Lyman commissioned to do their most recent cast bullet manual because he is the expert gunwriter on cast bullets.

It would be preferred if he said this is one way to do it or the way I do it but he comes across as authoritative and then ends up misleading lots of folks.

[MtGun44]

Lino works great in rifles, unless you want to hunt with it, and he is not. The cost is
apparently low enough that he isn't looking to reduce it. So, for him - it is a good
choice.

For other folks, there are different answers. MANY ways to "skin a cat".

The dark bore part does not match my experience, either. Otherwise, I see no
untruths, just differences of choices in the range of possible solutions.
Bill

[BruceB]

I've enjoyed John Wayne's movies for decades.

That said...... John Wayne was an ACTOR. He was not making movies about his own life; he was acting out STORIES written by someone else. His own accomplishments in the REAL world were limited, at best (unlike, say, Audie Murphy).

As to the name, "Duke", Mr Wayne held no copyright, and I have personally met a number of men called "Duke" in my lifetime .....as well as a HERD of dogs with that handle.

Mike Venturino has a considerable number of SHOOTING-RELATED accomplishments under his belt, including some very successful books which have become standard reference works in the field. He is also a respected competitive shooter.

HE IS ENTITLED TO HIS OPINIONS. If y'all disagree with his opinions, that's fine.... but to demean his qualifications, and even his NAME, is a severe and undeserved mistreatment of a gentleman.

Mike, if you read this, I apologize for the comments by some here, which do NOT reflect the opinions of all members at Cast Boolits.

[Ajax]

Personal attacks on any member here will be dealt with. We do not allow personal attacks, that includes a persons name. Any further comments need to reflect that.


Andy

[olafhardt]

After I got started casting and got to this and some other forums, gun magazines are just places that hold the ready cartridges . I am in the process of selling off my back copies.

[dromia]

Whilst I find Handloader's articles being increasingly cursory and shallow, in keeping with this 21st century's post modern attitudes. To be fair to the author in that article he relates his way for his purposes, which he clearly states, making ammunition that would fit any rifle of the same calibre with military accuracy then in the context of that his approach is valid and as it obviously works for him. Its not how or why I use cast for my military rifles but for him it is an approach that works and as such is a valid as any other. Living with differences can help you learn a lot. Dismissing them can be to your detriment.

[44man]

I like Mike even though long ago we had a few little disagreements, water over the dam so to say.
I wish he would post more.
About military rifles in general, I am amazed and have been all my life about how good they shoot. Just how did they turn out billions of them with such accuracy? Just a decent bore will shoot along with anything made today.
We have opinions and it is a dis service to any man to say bad. I know all about it, I have a few on other sites that disagree with every word I say, just personal and not good for those that need info to try. Those that need to be the King and Mike was never like that, he is a nice, easy going person.
Show respect.

[DeanWinchester]

I certainly didn't start this thread to assassinate the man's character. Personal attacks are not me and very un-gentleman like.
I just really disagreed with the way the article was presented. I could do that face to face with the guy and still drink a beer with him. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, in fact, controversy is healthy to finding real answers.
Formal apology if I sounded like I was insulting the man personally.

[MT Gianni]

I did glance at the articles in the magazine rack and realize I could be just as happy if I did not own this issue either.
Mike is a great guy in person and IMO does a lot about getting people to try cast in rifles as oppossed to so many other authors. There are too many that shoot cast and write it up who would not know which end ot the ladle to pour from as they bought all theirs.

[Larry Gibson]

I've enjoyed John Wayne's movies for decades.

That said...... John Wayne was an ACTOR. He was not making movies about his own life; he was acting out STORIES written by someone else. His own accomplishments in the REAL world were limited, at best (unlike, say, Audie Murphy).

As to the name, "Duke", Mr Wayne held no copyright, and I have personally met a number of men called "Duke" in my lifetime .....as well as a HERD of dogs with that handle.

Mike Venturino has a considerable number of SHOOTING-RELATED accomplishments under his belt, including some very successful books which have become standard reference works in the field. He is also a respected competitive shooter.

HE IS ENTITLED TO HIS OPINIONS. If y'all disagree with his opinions, that's fine.... but to demean his qualifications, and even his NAME, is a severe and undeserved mistreatment of a gentleman.

Mike, if you read this, I apologize for the comments by some here, which do NOT reflect the opinions of all members at Cast Boolits.

+1 here, well said Bruce.

If we look on page 36, bottom left hand paragraph of Mike V's article in question he states he does not "experiment" with cast bullets anymore (assuming for "battle rifles" since that what the article is about) because he has developed a "relatively simple but effective procedure".......and it works for him. He also states in that article that shooter should/could slug bores, make chamber casts and scrub the dickens out of the barrels for probably better accuracy. He uses the same loads for multiple rifles of the same cartridge to. So what? I thought the article was informative to the general run of the mill reader of that magazine. I'd bet if we wrote articles with the many times anal things we do the articles would not get published because few readers would understand and the magazine wouldn't sell. Got to remember the bottom line for Handloader is selling magazines and I've no problem with that or Mike's article. I actually agree with most of what Mike said in that article.

Larry Gibson

[Sweetpea]

Seems to me the article could be taken several ways.

It could come across as being lazy, and that he might be happier just shooting jacketed.

Or maybe he has a really good source for lino, or too much money.

Or the most likely, he doesn't have a whole lot of time to fiddle with each gun, so he found a way that usually gets him where he wants to be in the shortest time possible.

YMMV

Brandon

[Char-Gar]

When evaluating an article or speech, we should consider the audience. Mike V is writing for a very broad range of readers, most of which have little or no experience with cast bullets. This is not place to fill the article with mind numbing detail and "yes but" and "except when". He is painting with very broad brush and is not aiming his writings at the denizens of this board.

Placed into the proper context, Mike does a very good job. It would be well to lighten up on the guy, for he is one of us and have earned the respect of shooters and bullet casters. He has earned his spurs, paid his due, made his bones and has the creds to put whatever he wants into print.

[462]

We're individuals and our casting, reloading, and gun-related techniques and standards reflect that. As is posted, here, so often: "Your mileage may vary." And, "What works for me may not work for you."

In the article, he states that he uses Linotype because a friend has a large supply, and they have a trade arrangement.

While I disagree with some of what he wrote in his chapters in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and Handloader articles, I have no reason to publicly disparage his writings, or nickname (which, though I've forgotten how it came about, has nothing to do with John Wayne, by the way).

[45 2.1]

As far as painting with very broad brush.... that is called white washing.... and is not aiming his writings at the denizens of this board.... but has done that in past articles.

That is why people have such a hard time getting results, from old wives tails and poor information getting repeated time after time.

[Beau Cassidy]

I read it yesterday. It is perhaps the worst issue these eyes have ever laid eyes on. There are a lot of words about, basically, nothing.

[alamogunr]

I've been waiting for this thread since I got my latest issue of Handloader. I knew that the article in question would generate a lot of comments. I agree with some, disagree with others. Suffice to say that if he had written an article that the majority on this board agreed with, it would never see the light of day.

[Bullshop]

Sounds like a repeat of an article from have a dozen years ago. It had the same effect here then too.

[Recluse]

In no particular order. . .

• I enjoy Mike's articles, insights and opinions. I don't always agree with him, but I'm willing to go out on a thin limb and wager that he doesn't always agree with things I, and others, write here.

• His article, his bullypulpit, his right to put forth his opinions and experiences.

• Mike has absolutely earned his spot as a respected gunwriter. We seem to give writers' good articles and columns the obligatory nod, but if we disagree with them, we jump up and down.

I've been a longtime subscriber to Handloader, and now Rifle and Hunter. These days, I get them in the electronic bundle form.

I've been reloading for many, many years now and still consider myself a student handloader. I can find interesting information in just about any issue of Handloader and I can even actually learn something from each issue--IF I approach the issue with that mindset.

:coffee:

[44man]

I certainly didn't start this thread to assassinate the man's character. Personal attacks are not me and very un-gentleman like.
I just really disagreed with the way the article was presented. I could do that face to face with the guy and still drink a beer with him. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, in fact, controversy is healthy to finding real answers.
Formal apology if I sounded like I was insulting the man personally.
I must agree the rag has gone downhill for years and I stopped taking it. Editors are the problem with advertizing more important then facts today.
I belong to the NRA and always will but the rag they give me is a sad shadow of what it used to be. 5 minutes is enough to read it all. No info but articles about $5000 scopes. Just flip pages fast and it is done!
Writers used to work but now all that is wanted is a page or so, so ads have more room.
Hunting rags are even worse, same old junk repeated over and over. Handgun books are for fancy photos.

[runfiverun]

Sounds like a repeat of an article from have a dozen years ago. It had the same effect here then too.

yep,and the one just exactly like it about 3-4 years back.
and the one on....

I remember when articles in magazines were written about testing the author had been doing that month.
or the latest on his pet rifle [rebuild] or his reloading progressions to find accuracy.
it was like you were involved with your buddy's project [only vicariously]

[linotype]

I
About military rifles in general, I am amazed and have been all my life about how good they shoot. Just how did they turn out billions of them with such accuracy? Just a decent bore will shoot along with anything made today.

Not to hijack the tread, I agree about military rifles, in general, being accurate. My first (store bought) rifle was a 8mm Mauser that I reloaded for with a Lee handloader. Really recent target groups and many deer year after year.
Seems to me that every country took pride in building firearms for their military.

Linotype

[BRobertson]

I dumped all my magazine subscriptions for the same reasons that I got rid of our TV service, it is all just commercial garbage!!

There is a lot more useful info on this site, and a hand full of others, than there ever was in magazines!!!

I will not get started on gun writers!!! I used to deal with them a lot in our business that we sold 13 yrs ago. All together,

I met 3 or 4 that I have any respect for.

[BRobertson]

Having said that, I should add that if magazines help get new shooters interested in our sport, then more power to them!!!

In that case, they are well worthwhile!!!

Bob

[BruceB]

"I belong to the NRA and always will but the rag they give me is a sad shadow of what it used to be."os.

Indeed.

When I was growing up (if I ever did) we lived northwest of Lake Superior (that's in CANADA, y'all...). My Mother's parents lived in the UP of Michigan. We'd drive down to visit maybe once a year or so.

Grandpa was a gunsmith, and an active NRA member. In his front-hall closet was a stack of American Rifleman mags at least four feet high, dating back, I'd guess, to at least the '40s. On each visit, I'd dig into that stack and read voraciously... I blame this for my early addiction, at least in part.

Many now-legendary writers were included in those magazines, and I've long been thankful for the opportunity.

Both 'Rifleman' and 'Handloader' have come to a sorry state, and neither is even a shadow of its former self.

Too bad.

[Jack Stanley]

Maybe I'm alone in this thought , I got the impression the ammo that he was making , regardless of the cartridge . Was something that would get reasonably good results no matter the rifle you put it into . However many .303 rifles he has I'm thinking the ammo loaded works well in all of them , maybe not benchrest accuracy but I don't think it's his goal . Any one of those rifles some of you guys could fit everything perfect to the load , tweak the bedding and such and probably shoot it better . I bet he could too , isn't he one of the blackpowder rifle competitors ?

I think perhaps with the collection he has he wants to shoot them and not spend a lot of time loading for them . Some of us on the other hand , use the rifle range as a way to unload cases so we have a reason to get back to the loading/casting bench .......... admit it !!! I've seen the stuff you write :lol:

In some ways a couple of my favorite loads are not greatly different than his . I made them so they work well in any rifle chambered for that round and the mileage does vary a bit .

As for the magazine , I can live with the adds as long as they don't edit the articles so I have to wade through advertising . If I wanted to buy more junk I'd look in the ads . The others I quit because they are shallow , with Handloader I have a lifetime subscription so it's not like I can quit .

Jack

[Love Life]

I like Mr. Venturino's articles and he is my favorite gunwriter of MY time on earth. His articles got me into casting in the first place. Now here is the kick. I did massive research outside of his articles on bullet casting. You never take one source as the gospel.

That being said, he has to hit the wave tops. If he were to cover all the different variables then his article would turn into a 20 volume book set. I have yet to read a completely accurate article on bullet casting that covers everything in depth in a gun magazine. We take this forum (and the info here) for granted at times, and forget that others have no idea we exist. So when Mr. Venturino writes an article on cast bullets, and all the new reloaders read it, what do you think they do? They Google bullet casting, which inevitably leads them to...here. This is where they can get deep learning into the subject due to the many subject matter experts on hand about...anything.

It is what it is.

[wills]

Then he says he only uses straight Linotype because he wants them HARD. In all I've cast and shot I've never seen a need for anything THAT hard until you get velocities way on up there. If you have a PROPER fit and a good lube like Bens Red or equivalent I've been all over the low to mid 2K fps area with air cooled wheel weights and nary a hint of lead in the bore.


What he said linotype is harder than needed, but there are two reasons he uses it: It pours well and he gets virtually no rejects, and; he has a friend with a very large supply, and he trades for it.

If you go through any document, you can take isolated quotes out of context, or slightly rephrase things, and always find something to complain about.

I read the article and found it to be interesting and well reasoned. He is discussing techniques he applies to loading for 30+ rifles, not to customizing a load for a particular rifle.

[45 2.1]

Covering just the very basics with 30 year old outdated knowledge doesn't cut it either.

[BruceB]

"...would get reasonably good results no matter the rifle you put it into . However many .303 rifles he has I'm thinking the ammo loaded works well in all of them ....

Don't want to overstay my welcome here, but Jack makes another good point.

A few months back I posted about loading "generic" rifle and handgun loads, meaning that in many cases I find it better to load ONE load recipe for all the firearms in one caliber. In my case, I simply can't be bothered loading individual recipes for four .303s, five .30'06s, four .223s, six .45 ACP pistols... you get the idea.

Therefore I load "generic" ammo and accept the fact that it may not bring out the best in any one gun, but by gum I have a good time loading and shooting the stuff.

[quilbilly]

Before I knew any better, I believed the dark bore ideology and passed up an otherwise pristine old 25-20 Winchester lever rifle for $150. I am still crying myself to sleep. Actually, 5744 isn't a bad place to start with most heavily bottlenecked cases if that powder wasn't so hard to find. After starting with 5744 in my 250-3000 and my 6mm Rem, I found my 250 loved it and the 6mm hated it. As a retired outdoor writer myself, I think Venturino is a wonderful writer (not that he needs approval from me) and I do get a laugh sometimes at some of the things he says.

[plainsman456]

The thing is,these rifles were meant to hit a man sized target,not MOA groups.

Wish i had a supply of the hard stuff like he has,i might be shooting it also.

[Crash_Corrigan]

We as a group hold ourselves to a higher standard then most citizens of this country. Most of us stand behind the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution and will even put hard earned money up to defend it. Mike V. is writing for a very broad based readership. He is just about 10 years younger than me and of a different generation.

As a youngster I played "Guns" in the streets with other kids my age. We had active and wonderful imaginations and we made up games as we went along with our "Chicago" steel wheel clamp on roller skates, ice skates, sleds, bicycles, slingshots, homemade boomerangs, "Spaldings" (naked tennis balls) and other readily available toys. We developed interpersonal relations skills amongst outselves. These skills put us head and shoulders above later generations who spent more time in front of the "Boob Tube" than we did.

I was quite fortunate in that I got to spend every summer and most weekends from April to October upstate in the country and away from NYC. We had family property and two residences near High Falls, NY. There I had access to firearms dating back to prior to the Civil War and a Grandfather who had fought in the Spanish American War. Wow did he have stories to tell me over the years. Howver my two younger sisters were raised in the TV age. They parked their kiesters in front of the TV set and turned off their imagainations. Thus they failed to develop the interpersonal skills I had developed and became fat butted and very shallow and dull adults. Their minds are narrow and neither one of them could name three combatant countries of WWII.

Thier educations were shallow and neither of them enjoy nor read any books other than the trash magazines readily available at checkout counters in the supermarkets. I on the other hand from an early age eagerly devour the printed word. I even still read newspapers. They are still parked in front of the TV and mess on the internet for hours and hours. However they are not on this site.....Facebook and Twitter take up their time.

Mike is writing to try and reach this mindless and lazy group of people born in the 50's thru the 80's. Each generation has been dumbed down by our so called education system and today HS graduates cannot make change out of a $5 bill without resorting to a hand calculator or the computerized register. None of today's graduates know the multiplication tables nor can they practice cursive writing. The Palmer Penmanship method is no longer taught in school. Half or more of today's HS grads cannot tell time unless the device is digital.

History is boring and the kids of today are well versed in the doings of Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aston and Joline sombody or other. But do not ask them who fought in the Korean war or why. Ditto on the Vietnam war, and forget about WWII or god forbid WWI.

This is the readership of Mike V. Dumbed down, narrow minded, pablum brained and ill informed Americans who readily elect a smooth talking snake oil salesmen from Illinois again and again. He has to write a dumbed down article that the 3rd grade level educated typical reader can understand and digest without too much mental gymastics.

No wonder our country is in such a miserable state and the economy is in the toilet. So don't blame Mike V. for writing at a such a level...he has to in order to let his stuff get by the editors....

[BCB]

After I got started casting and got to this and some other forums, gun magazines are just places that hold the ready cartridges . I am in the process of selling off my back copies.

If you are talking about selling your back issues of Handloader, I might be interested...

PM me with the numbers and possible prices...

Sorry to post off topic...

BCB

[sparky45]

Bruce; you must of read this thread WAY differently than I did. OP NEVER "demeaned his qualifications" or even his name, that's just your overreaction to OP's disagreement with his article. That's all it was. I like reading Handloader, but it has become a very mediocre read at best. Now, that's my opinion.


I've enjoyed John Wayne's movies for decades.

That said...... John Wayne was an ACTOR. He was not making movies about his own life; he was acting out STORIES written by someone else. His own accomplishments in the REAL world were limited, at best (unlike, say, Audie Murphy).

As to the name, "Duke", Mr Wayne held no copyright, and I have personally met a number of men called "Duke" in my lifetime .....as well as a HERD of dogs with that handle.

Mike Venturino has a considerable number of SHOOTING-RELATED accomplishments under his belt, including some very successful books which have become standard reference works in the field. He is also a respected competitive shooter.

HE IS ENTITLED TO HIS OPINIONS. If y'all disagree with his opinions, that's fine.... but to demean his qualifications, and even his NAME, is a severe and undeserved mistreatment of a gentleman.

Mike, if you read this, I apologize for the comments by some here, which do NOT reflect the opinions of all members at Cast Boolits.

[Skirmisher]

Writers make their living writing for the greatest possible audience which is what the publishers want. They want new subscriptions but most of all they want the mags to sell out at the grocery store or wally world. They are competing for valuable sales space. Remember decades ago how all you had to do to sell a gun mag was put a cover on it with "9mm vs .38SPL". Every single one of them did it at least once a year. I gave up on Handloader a long time ago when they gave up on multiple serious articles. I still have some old issues that I use for reference. The target audience today of gun mags in general don't want serious matter. Just look at the number of non serious mags about guns in the grocery store. They want assurance that the money they spent for a gun was worth it or which one should they buy. How many bad gun reviews have you seen by a mag that takes advertising from the manufacturer? It's all a money game.

I always enjoyed reading Mike's work of yore. Unless you're a Skeeter Skelton you're pretty much limited to the above restraints and that's not intended to be a disparagement about Mike's work.

[trooperdan]

Very well stated Dan! :)

[BruceB]

Bruce; you must of read this thread WAY differently than I did. OP NEVER "demeaned his qualifications" or even his name, that's just your overreaction to OP's disagreement with his article. That's all it was. I like reading Handloader, but it has become a very mediocre read at best. Now, that's my opinion.

Hmmmm..... interesting. My "over-reaction", as you call it, was due to a post from 'gandydancer', I believe, and IT HAS NOW VANISHED.

That was where he stated, among other things, that "There is only one Duke, and he ain't it."

Look at the other posts supporting my stance on this thread and see if THEY are over-reacting, too.

You are welcome to your opinion; I stand by my post.

[gandydancer]

good lord people. did any of you not see the yanking chain on that post? I was kidding.its a joke.it was never meant to be an attack on Mike V personal or other wise. I read his stuff and like most of it. WOW! You'd think I kicked some ones dog. lighten up. GD

[phaessler]

I too was "put off" by the articles in this bimonthly issue, and it follows most firearm enthusiast publications lately. They are one person’s opinions, and we all have them. The magazines seemingly continually repeat the articles, at least to most experienced enthusiasts, with information that’s relative to a very narrow view of a broad topic. Not to criticize Mike V., or Brian Pearce (his article on Montana Bullet Works, and several previous cast boolit articles come to mind), but we all find discrepancy in the writings.
What I did find in parallel, was the 8X57 recommendation oft he Saeco 081, which also appears in Lyman's 4th Cast Bullet manual, again with Mike's technical presence in its publication.
All in all, with the sources at their fingertips, and manufacturers connections, why not publish and article/column on the "State of the Industry”, whether its powder manufacturers, firearms makers, component makers, or for our sake lead sales. This would bring something more current to the plate for me, and others.
I am thankful that we have to opportunity to agree to disagree, and for the freedom of the press, to read what we want to.
Perhaps its time to submit some suggestions for future articles to the publications of your choice?
Pete

[popper]

Never read handloading mag ( or any car or gun mags even in the barber shop). 90% ads, 10% wide brush writing. Don't have a reloading manual either (shame on me). Learned everything I know about cast and reloading from you guys. Only been at it for a couple years and have lots to learn in the years I got left.

[Char-Gar]

Just a couple of thoughts on the subject at hand and then I will take my leave of this thread.

1. Like most of you the gunwriters and magazine of today won't hold a candle to the writers and publications of my youth. When I say that, I also remember that I knew very little back then and everything I read furnished information to the base of knowledge I take for granted today. Every once in a while, I read some of those magazines and they are not as profound as I once thought.

2. I have an option on how I spend my money and time. I will spend neither in ways which provide me only angst and no benefit. This is the reason, I don't have subscriptions to pulp magazines any more.

3. If, I really wanted a magazine that spoke to the issues of shooters like me, I would have to start my own. In these days and times, print media is no longer cutting edge and digital is the way to go. I am not the first to come up with this notion as we have a number of very good digital gun publications around these days. I am too lazy to start my own, so I will just enjoy the efforts of those with more energy and industry that I.

Take care guys, stay positive and shoot straight. Life it too short to get mired down in frustration and angst over something as silly as an article in Handloader.

[Bwana]

There was a time when I received several gun related magazines. Not now, not for some time. I get two gun related magazines/news letters, and only because I am a member of the NRA and USPSA. As I have written before, for those new loaders who are interested, I lend my vast library of older magazines so that they too might benefit from the "old" writers. That happens rarely now as the "youngins" don't seem to like to read anymore.

[Dale53]

I have never met Mike, tho' I would like to. I have had several conversations of some length with his old friend, Steve Garbe, who holds him in high regard.

I started out in this shooting game as a small bore competitor in my early teens (MANY years ago). I also shot a good bit of muzzle loading competition with both rifles and pistols. However, there came a time when I wanted to get into Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette. I knew very little about that game. I bought a copy of Mike's and Steve's book (The Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Primer) and followed Mike's directions. I had a good rifle (40/65 Sharps) and using his "recipe" my first trip to the range had me shooting EXTREMELY well. I had a couple of acquaintance's who were also shooting alongside me. They had long time experience with those rifles. They pooh-poohed my reliance on Mike's book. When the smoke cleared, they had fouled out in just a few shots and had horrible results. My iron sighted Sharps was shooting under 2 minutes at 100 yards off a bench (my FIRST effort). This was entirely due to Mike and Steve's instructions. I went on to become quite competitive with the black powder rifle.

After I got into BPCR Silhouette, I learned that they had side matches for black powder cartridge revolvers. I bought a Ruger Vaquero
in .45 Colt. I knew NOTHING about loading black in a cartridge revolver. I picked up a copy of Mike's book on Colt revolvers, went to the Black Powder section of the .45 Colt. I followed Mike's directions in loading, went to the range, and BAM! quite competive in THAT end of the sport. My most memorable day with the Bisley Vaquero was at Friendship, IN in the revolver side match where I won 7 of the 8 matches that day. Again, because of the EXCELLENT information that Mike had given me.

I'll tell you this, NO ONE will disparage Mike in my hearing without hearing from me...

I am also a fan of the Handloader magazine. I am particularly a fan of Brian Pearce's articles. They just seem to ring a bell with me and his information has been solid.

Mike has done his shooting "In front of God and everybody", too. He doesn't do his shooting with his typewriter.

FWIW
Dale53

[onceabull]

And ,like him,or his writing,or both, or NOT,;--he is one of the "half dozen or so members here that can shoot cast bullets to their full potential":brokenima, Onceabull

[kir_kenix]

As has been said already, it was a general overview that was intended to be enjoyed by all handloaders accross the board. Some people on here spend alot of time on one rifle, getting it to shoot as well as they possibly can (I do this on occasion). Others just want to blast (me on other occasions). I have multiple M1A's, and what works best in one doesn't necessarily work best in the others. Instead I focus on loads that work well enough in all of them. I think this is what Duke was driving home, he has found a formula that works well for him. Sounds like he'd rather spend his time shooting his fine collection then tediously making a different load for each arm. These are mainly open-sighted military rifles anyway, and likely wouldn't benefit (with his style of shooting) from hours more at the casting and reloading bench.

If I had a huge pile of Lino...your darn tootin I'd be shooting straight Lino in virtually all of my non-hunting arms! Makes sense to me. I thought it was a pretty decent article, and I enjoyed reading it. I may not have learned alot, but I appreciate the time he spent loading, shooting, and describing his adventure. I'm not as well informed as some here, but I think we can all apreciate that Handloader runs some articles about casting boolits.

We would need to start our own magazine to truly have groundbreaking and revolutionary cast boolit articles, but I don't see anybody stepping forward to start that venture lol

[smoked turkey]

I have followed Mike V's writings for a few years and can say that his work is almost always inspiring, informative, and enjoyable. I don't follow sports too much, but I can tell you this, Mike's batting average when it comes to good articles vs not so good is WAY better than the best and I might say much higher paid sports figures who bat, throw, putt, whatever the sport is. No one bats 100%. I don't know Mike V, but i wish I did. I would love to pay him a visit and just watch him work.

[10x]

I will have to re read that article. I thought the goal was a cast bullet load that would be acceptable in the majority of milsurps Mike shoots.
Not target, minute of angle, squeeze the last minute of accuracy out of the gun and load, but good enough to keep them on an 8" gong at 100 yards and 12" at 200.

I have enjoyed Mikes articles for years and do believe he is one of the best gun writers there is.
Whether or not he shoots bullets cast from linotype, or store bought lead is not really relevant. I used up the last of my linotype a few years back. It made great target ammo - I would not use it for hunting. I would not mind a half ton of linotype. It cast up the nicest looking bullets every.
Then again I had several hundred pounds of electrotype - that made even nicer (and much harder) bullets. They would ring when I dropped them.
Bottom line I will continue to enjoy Mike's articles and use any and all advice he gives to my advantage.

He gives a general way to give good accuracy.
Although I disagree with the dark bore theory. I have used a lee liquid alox / fine valve grinding paste, and tooth paste in place of lube to shine up a bore.
And with milsurps, the best way to clean some bores is brake clean, and an ammonia soak. I have a chinese made mauser that has been shot and cleaned for over 30 years. The patches still come out dirty after endless cleaning...

[Wolfer]

Like Mike I tend to load generic loads that work in all my guns. Unlike Mike I don't have any Lino.
My alloy is too soft to work well with 5744. I use one alloy with everything from low powered pistols to higher powered rifles.
In my rifles 16 to 20 gr of 2400 depending on caliber gets me a very useable load.
I have no doubts Lino and 5744 would work just as well together.

[Mk42gunner]

I started reading gun magazines one day in detention in junior high; when I found a Guns & Ammo with the first few pages ripped off, to where Elmer Keith's Gunnotes was the cover. This was sometime in the late 1970's.

Since then, Mike is about the only writer that actually writes about casting his own bullets, and telling how to do it, not just saying "I cast some bullets." I can remember reading about him using custom cut molds, and thinking "boy he is into this a lot farther than I would be." HA, shows how little I knew then.

I like the concept of having a standard load for several guns of the same caliber; but can also see the fun of developing specific loads for each rifle. Of course the fun goes away when you get to the range with ammo that won't chamber due to the boolit being seated about .248" too far out (very possible, I have two 7.62 NATO rifles that vary almost that far).

At the very least this article got some people to think that they can shoot lead booits from a rifle.

Robert

[HangFireW8]

Mike is writing to try and reach this mindless and lazy group of people born in the 50's thru the 80's. Each generation has been dumbed down by our so called education system and today HS graduates cannot make change out of a $5 bill without resorting to a hand calculator or the computerized register. None of today's graduates know the multiplication tables nor can they practice cursive writing. The Palmer Penmanship method is no longer taught in school. Half or more of today's HS grads cannot tell time unless the device is digital.

Wow are you out of date. The emphasis against memorization and multiplication tables belongs to the mid-60's/70's generation, the "whole language learning" school generation. For the past 3 decades the mantra has been "phonics" and drill and memorization, including times tables.

HF

[Abenaki]

I like Mike!
I read the article. I found some interesting things in it. I did find some of it boring..... but only because I have
"out grown" it. Kinda, like it is not fun any more to tuck a towel in my shirt and pretend that I am Superman!
Now....Batman! I still do it........but, only because the wife makes me!!!!!!!!!!

I like Mike!
Abenaki

[Hardcast416taylor]

An old friend of mine had a hunting TV show on public broadcasting here abouts for about 20 years. After he closed the show and retired to a more calm life style he remarked to me that he was glad that he didn`t have to invent a new way to have the annual pheasant season opener show EVERY YEAR.Robert

[Gtek]

WOW, All three pages and still wondering how all these feathers got ruffled. I have yet to figure out how expressing ones opinion in whole herd of type A people can do this, never seen that before. If we were a twenty year old and owned three bang sticks and bought our ammo at Wally World, if interested we probably would have hung on every word to consume information. How many molds did you say you had? How many alloys in stock ready to drop? How long you been doing this? I spent the six bucks, big letters on top right of page 35 "Taking The Simple Approach". Nothing to see here people- move along. Gtek

[runfiverun]

And ,like him,or his writing,or both, or NOT,;--he is one of the "half dozen or so members here that can shoot cast bullets to their full potential":brokenima, Onceabull

you need to learn how to count..............

[detox]

Mike uses parafin as flux.............................................. ....................just kidding..............................i think?

Maybe he does?

[kenyerian]

Who was it that said "Don't believe everything you hear and only half of what you see" or "Trust but verify". i enjoy reading Mikes articles. They are always well written and full of useful information. Plus he signs his work with his name and stands behind it. However I question and double check everything I read about reloading because a mistake could be fatal. I grew up reading Outdoor Life, Sports a field, Field and Stream Guns and Ammo, Fur Fish and game back in the late 50's and 60's so I've read a lot of the old time writers and Mike does as good as job as any of them.

[10x]

I have read the article carefully, twice.
Mr. Venturino has written an article about what he does with cast bullets that works for him. He expresses his experiences, and he tells us what he does that seems to work acceptably (to him but maybe not for others who have different goals and criteria).
He makes no "carved in stone" claims - just tells us his experience and how he copes with having more rifles than he has time to develop loads for. He likes 5744 with cast bullets, I like Unique. Mostly because until recently I have never had access to 5744. Will I try it, maybe in a gun that I want to try to wring more accuracy out of.
It is an excellent article - well written, and mentions that these methods may not be "the best" for the best accuracy with a specific gun, and that in some guns, they may not work at all. He mentions that some guns do not like the loads.

And Mike, if you ever read this far in the thread. Keep up the good work! I enjoy reading about your experiences, and appreciate your wisdom and skill.
The world would be a dull place if we we all used the same cast bullet caliber, load, and rifle....

[Bullshop]

How dare he! He knows full well that we all do everything exactly the same way here. How dare he be different.[smilie=1:

[fcvan]

I used to enjoy reading Mike's articles in various magazines but I haven't subscribed in a long time. His articles taught me a great deal and I believe as a previous poster said that his articles are aimed at the person who might try cast in their rifles. I know it inspired me to try rifles having mostly cast for handguns. I really liked his articles on old Sharps rifles and BP Cartridge shooting. If a few people get inspired to try cast in rifles because of Mike's writing they will undoubtedly want to learn more and hopefully end up looking here.

Side note: Back in the 80s, I had a buddy in Bakersfield who loved BP and was getting sick of CA. He talked often of moving to Montana to enjoy God's country. John finally left CA in the late 80s. How cool to read an article where Mike was hunting Bighorn Sheep with a Sharps rifle, using black powder, and a picture of my buddy holding up the ram's head so we could see the dandy Mike had bagged. Makes a guy want to bust out of a rut and try something new like launching lead with old rifles using BP.

[Bent Ramrod]

I think you've put your finger on an important point, fcvan. Part of the allure of the writers of old was that there was a lot of interest in all of the aspects of the shooting sports, but not much information beyond what the individual could figure out for himself. Any writer who could do a good job of experimentation and could carefully document what they were doing had at least a shot at being a reasonably saleable gun writer, especially at the fees the poor guy would get from what few magazines were around. If they could do it with style, or at least come across to the reader in their own voice, they had a good chance of gaining a devoted following. The development of guns, ammunition components and accuracy and terminal ballistics was going in leaps and bounds and there were plenty of new developments to write about. If, in addition, the writer could generate interest in what he was writing about among people who were not previously interested in the topic, he would become universally regarded as a great writer.

Now, the situation is a lot different. The industry is what they call "mature," at least in the areas that the average reader would be interested in. Most "advances" in gunology these days are marketing developments rather than real technological advances. Too much concentration on or enthusiasm for for any of these developments opens the writer up to charges of being a shill for the industry, whether it is true or not. There is enough information out there, collected over decades, so anybody who is interested can glean at least a superficial idea of what is available and what it does. The upshot is that it is very much harder to be a truly noteworthy and original voice now, and very easy to sound like one is just regurgitating (and perhaps mangling) already published and easily available information.

So the "greatness" of a gun writer nowadays devolves essentially to one thing, the ability to make some aspect of gun stuff interesting to somebody who was not previously interested in it. This talent is complicated by its extreme subjectivity; it obviously doesn't work with everyone, but some percentage of people need to be affected by it. I'm not a deer hunter, and haven't fired a shot at a bird in decades, but Francis Sell's writings make me interested in both endeavors, whereas the writings of many other people about the same subjects make me wonder why anybody would get up that early to do anything that boring.

The modern writer who, to me, had the interest stimulation talent in spades was Ross Seyfried. He could make anything he wrote about, no matter how routine or arcane, interesting. I used to go over and over his stuff to try to figure out how he could do that just by stringing words together, but in vain. He had something of the storytelling abilities of Elmer Keith, and he was very good with detail and could put the reader into the picture, so maybe that was part of it.

Mike Venturino started out writing about stuff that all gun writers write about: hunting rifles, their calibers, wondernines, etc. He was competent, but not particularly compelling back then. He started getting interesting to me when he started writing about stuff that I'm interested in, like single action revolvers and single shot rifles, boolit casting and reloading. He must have learned some things while he was doing this because he has now become a good hand at interesting me in whatever he writes about. I am of the generation whose fathers had all the war and weaponry they ever wanted before I was born, and never talked much about either, except in terms of privation and misery. The "milsurp" rifles at the surplus stores when I was a kid had the single virtue of being cheap; otherwise, they had as yet no historical glamour and were funky,ugly things, coated with grease, dirt and rust, sticking out of fiberboard drums. I still have some of that mindset, and yet I read Mike's articles about his new enthusiasm for WWII and its artifacts and find myself interested as well. So if he isn't a great gun writer in the modern sense, he is at least well on his way to being one.

As pointed out, he has to write for a mass audience. Suppose his article was about how to cast, season, harden, size/lube, finagle and otherwise prestidigitate so he could shoot cast boolits in his milsurp rifles at 2900 ft/second with 1-1/2 MOA accuracy. Suppose further that he had the time available to do so and the magazine space to write the complete description in. Almost nobody would buy the magazine for the article. Only one in fifty magazine buyers would read the article, only a minority of them would try doing it themselves and only a tiny few would succeed. (If you don't think this is true, consider what happened to the concept of Fire Lapping.) The article would thus result in little reader interest, many angry letters to the editor by those who couldn't do it, and the minority who got it working would be on Line telling everybody that Mike either got it wrong or that he stole their chops and used them to line his own pockets. He couldn't win; why should he bother?

[Boyscout]

I thought about a subscription to Handloader but too many issues don't cover anything I shoot so I usually only buy the ones with cast bullet and casting articles. I look through them and buy the idividual issues that suit my needs. I subscribe to Guns and Ammo and Outdoor Life and get weary of both sometimes. I get tired of reading gear review for rifles and shotguns I will never be able to afford. I do enjoy reading most of Mike's articles. As for Linotype, I now have a source for awhile but I will probably use some of it to make Alloy #2 and water drop the ones I want to use for target only. Recently I have been air cooling and water dropping in the same casting session and then loading cartridges identically to see which shoots better in a given gun.

[Rocky Raab]

I am amazed, astounded and deeply impressed that at least one guy "gets it" about the realities of magazine writing. Kudos to Bent Ramrod.

I wrote about what interested me, to answer a question that bugged me, or just to explore some small aspect of reloading. I had something like a hundred articles published. That's no great shakes compared to a full-time writer like Venturino or Barsness or Seyfried - but it's not a bad score for a part-time freelancer.

I recently decided to stop writing, however. The reasons are many, but included are the facts that magazines are shrinking in all aspects: size, content, and frequency. Where once I could explore a topic with 3,000 words, the upper limit now is half that. Where once I could expect to have an article accepted and see print in six months or so, submissions now sit unprinted for two years or more - if indeed they ever see print. Then there's the payment; where I could once expect to recoup the costs of the necessary components and make a few dollars, the checks recently don't even allow me to break even - and there are NO checks until after the article sees print.

My hat is off to anybody who can remain employed as a staff writer these days - but I suspect that the days are numbered.

[Shiloh]

I've enjoyed John Wayne's movies for decades.
As to the name, "Duke", Mr Wayne held no copyright, and I have personally met a number of men called "Duke" in my lifetime .....as well as a HERD of dogs with that handle.


I used to ride a horse named Duke as a youth, and another named Luke. I currently know three people with a dog named Duke.

Shiloh

[wills]

If I buy a magazine and everything in it exactly matches my own understanding, have I not wasted my time and money?

[MtGun44]

+1 on Recluse's post #24. I like Handloader, Rifle and have taken them for years. I think
Mr. Venturino is a skilled 'gunriter' (as he says) and a real asset to the community. Do I agree
with everything he says? No. But so what? Still like his stuff, and would love to have dinner
with him and chat some day.

Bill

[Kull]

If I buy a magazine and everything in it exactly matches my own understanding, have I not wasted my time and money?

No not really.

[waksupi]

If we all agreed on everything we read, we would have some darn short topics on this board.

[Gohon]

Hmmmm..... interesting. My "over-reaction", as you call it, was due to a post from 'gandydancer', I believe, and IT HAS NOW VANISHED.

Then you must realize that with the post you are referring to now gone from the thread, a reader will easily confuse what you stated as pointing back at the OP. The OP only disagreed with the article and made no personal attacks on anyone but your #9 post as it now stands with the deleted reference post will always point a new reader straight back to the OP. Maybe the correct thing to do would be to edit your post and point that minor detail out.

[NVScouter]

1) That article made me regret selling my 303 to a member here, I may be looking for another.
2) It was a fairly weak issue, maybe the worst in a few years.
3) I'd like to see more HUNTING with cast and recovered boolits instead of what gong to ring.

4) Drop the "filler" handgun review articles for HANDLOADING stuff.....this is the only thing that really irritates me. There are dozens of review type magazines and hundred of articles like this in them. Go buy HANDGUNS or RIFLE magazine that these guys put out and leave the handloading in HANDLOADER.

[NVScouter]

Some excellently written stuff here. Thank you.

Just add books too.



I am amazed, astounded and deeply impressed that at least one guy "gets it" about the realities of magazine writing. Kudos to Bent Ramrod.

I wrote about what interested me, to answer a question that bugged me, or just to explore some small aspect of reloading. I had something like a hundred articles published. That's no great shakes compared to a full-time writer like Venturino or Barsness or Seyfried - but it's not a bad score for a part-time freelancer.

I recently decided to stop writing, however. The reasons are many, but included are the facts that magazines are shrinking in all aspects: size, content, and frequency. Where once I could explore a topic with 3,000 words, the upper limit now is half that. Where once I could expect to have an article accepted and see print in six months or so, submissions now sit unprinted for two years or more - if indeed they ever see print. Then there's the payment; where I could once expect to recoup the costs of the necessary components and make a few dollars, the checks recently don't even allow me to break even - and there are NO checks until after the article sees print.

My hat is off to anybody who can remain employed as a staff writer these days - but I suspect that the days are numbered.

[lotech]

Bellyaching on an Internet forum about a gunwriter's deficiencies may provide solace, but does absolutely nothing to improve the quality of articles we read. How many have made the HANDLOADER editor aware of specific shortcomings in the articles? I know that I have not. Granted, HANDLOADER, and RIFLE as well, are not the publications they were a few years ago. I single out no particular writer because any long-time gun journalist with some semblance of a following can become complacent and "slip a few under the wire" as long as there are no (or just a few) intelligent critical comments about his work, or lack of it. Perhaps our efforts should be directed where they will do some good, and they will if enough folks take the time to handle the matter in a courteous, professional manner.

[alamogunr]

HANDLOADER, and RIFLE as well, are not the publications they were a few years ago.

Most of us are not the persons we were a few years ago.

[44man]

So much truth and even more from Rocky and Bent. That is how it is. It is not the writer and he is allowed little to entertain and also offer facts at the same time.
I tried writing and was rejected all the time and then seen stuff printed that was 100% wrong.
Many of us here could write but would get nowhere.
I was once told that if I had a record book animal, I could write all kinds of junk proving how good I was even though the animal was 100% luck.

[gunfan]

I, for one, have disagreed with Mr. Venturino on a number of occasions. He's a paid gun writer. I don't hold him in any special esteem. Frankly, I don't care much for a number of the recent breed of "gun writers." Venturino may seem "special" to some, but I beg to differ.

Scott

[Love Life]

I, for one, have disagreed with Mr. Venturino on a number of occasions. He's a paid gun writer. I don't hold him in any special esteem. Frankly, I don't care much for a number of the recent breed of "gun writers." Venturino may seem "special" to some, but I beg to differ.

Scott

But you sure do post a bunch of gun writer's articles in the hand cannon section...

[alamogunr]

He's a paid gun writer. I don't hold him in any special esteem.

Scott

You say that as if it is something to be ashamed of. What are you paid to do?

[nanuk]

I have enjoyed years of reading articles from Handloader, and Rifleshooter, et al

my problem now, is the rehash of the same old stuff...

really, how many articles can Mr. B. write about the 30-06 and its greatness, or how it is eclipsed by the newest and greatest rounds that beat it by 150-200fps...

Mike V. got me interested in Cast Bullets, and that is how I ended up here, but back then, each article was new and exciting, and I learned a bit more each time. I'm past that now, as it appears to be more of the same....

but really, how can someone who writes about one subject matter (and I do consider him pretty much an general expert) make it interesting each time, when there is not much more to be said.... so he has to find a way to say it again, but different. More so when his subject is about the rifle, and NOT the bullet.

Now, I mostly read Scovill, for the gruff, to the point discussions based on his experiences, and Barness, because he is still on the trail of "Old Wives Tails" and writes stuff that contradicts others, and with that, we learn.

as for the nickname "Duke"? I never once thought he was being compared to J.W. and for the record, I think John Wayne was one of the most terrible actors in the business. I haven't been able to watch one of his movies to the finish yet!

Mike has earned his Props in the Gun Rags, but now, I find a lot of articles, not just some of MV's to be like a harlequin romance.... cookie cutter, nothing new.... Nothing to do with the writing style, but the subject matter.

I'd like to see every third article from him to be about some fine point of experimentation on alloy, or size, or something... you know, different!

[uscra112]

I haven't even seen an issue of handloader for 2-3 years. I have a 2010 issue with Venturino article. Have they republished the same one? Sounds like it. The mag was interesting 10-15 years ago, bought one issue in three five years ago, don't miss it at all now. Like The Rifleman, it has become just an advertising machine, with just enough editorial content to keep the novices interested. Like travel magazines, home decorating magazines, fashion magazines, etc. Print is dying.

[Newtire]

Hi Rocky, maybe would be nice if you made your site so that us common Plebes could see what was on there? What with IE and Firefox and Google Chrome and others, some of that stuff interacts strangely with the other systems and we end up wasting alot of time correcting all the glitches.

Until then, or not...

[Newtire]

If we all agreed on everything we read, we would have some darn short topics on this board.

Yup! nuff said then.

[bbqncigars]

I still like Handloader, and Mike's articles. They rarely teach me anything these days, but they're still entertaining. I sorely miss the days of Cooper, Keith, Jordan, and Skelton. At least I have their books to remind me of past times.

[crash87]

[QUOTE

I wrote about what interested me, to answer a question that bugged me, or just to explore some small aspect of reloading. I had something like a hundred articles published. That's no great shakes compared to a full-time writer like Venturino or Barsness or Seyfried [/QUOTE]

Wow :shock: giving Ross 3rd billing, was this on purpose?, surly wasn't alphabetic, and no I'm not calling you Shirley.
IMHO which has nothing to do with this thread, although I agree 110% with DeanWinchesters comments of his 1st post.
But, as far as I'm concerned Mike and Johnny are not even close, to being in the same league as Ross.

"45 2.1
That is why people have such a hard time getting results, from old wives tails and poor information getting repeated time after time".

Truer words have never, ever, been posted on the internet. Would this be the same issue where Pearce continues to rant about the shoulder cutting the path through the bruin from his Keith, excuse me "Scovill bullet" from a 45 colt? Seems he must be getting some mail on his refusal to admit it may not be as it seems, I figure that's why he continually has to reference it. Fortunatley we experienced cast bullet shooters, you know, the ones who can take cast to it's true potential, can distinguish their facts as fiction.
Come on guys you need to give Mike a break. After a while we all tend to get stagnant to some degree. If you your a fan of Unique, 5744 or Goex black powder, BPS silhouette competition, old war rifles, or Winchester levers with everyday common handloads we've already memorized. Handloader magazine and Mike's articles ain't so bad after all. I'd put the yanking chain deal on here but most of you wouldn't get it anyway. So its just a ;)
CRASH87

[dverna]

Like some here, I have stopped all my subscriptions expect the NRA Rifleman - which I get for being a member. But I find very little of interest in it. Same old - same old.....

I have some of MV's books. He is no dummy.

He had an article about SASS a few years back lamenting the direction the sport had gone with light loads to be competitive and it was no longer a "real" shooting sport. He alienated a lot of shooters - me included. He may have believed he was right, or maybe he was just stirring the pot due to boredom and trying to find something "interesting" to write about. Anyway, it ticked a lot of SASS shooters off. I wrote the magazine (Shooting Times I think) and canceled my subscription. Anyone who hurts the game should pay the price. There is a way to deal with those we disagree with. Don't buy their stuff....

But Mike has done a lot. The man can shoot and he can write. That does not make him God but it makes him talanted.

I recall pictures of him back a few years ago in the shooting mags with a WWII helmet on and looking a bit ... let's say...."strange". I never could figure out what the heck that was about but it was not very professional. Just my $.02 - YMMV

I think it would be a blast to have dinner and drinks with him.

[Rocky Raab]

My apologies, newtire and others. My website was designed with a Microsoft program - so naturally, the Microsoft browser screws it up. Most people have no trouble viewing it with Firefox or Chrome.

Fixing it would require a 100% re-write and I'm just not motivated to do that. In fact, I'm letting it go extinct when my current hosting contract expires later this summer. If there's something there you want to remember, better save it.

[detox]

I just received Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook and is a verygood read. Mike wrote most all of the book (15 chapters). It is a BIG improvement over the 3rd edition and with lots of updated loading data including 5744 powder.

[oldtoolsniper]

I'll stick my paddle on the other side of the canoe. I am an avid wood worker and have been for 30 years. Those publications do the same thing, how many ways can you cut a dovetail? How many ways can you sand a board? How many variations of smearing glue on a board, tightening a clamp, drawing a strait line or even sharpening a pencil to do it can there be? It comes round and round. Wood working has been around since there were trees and shooting came after the invention of gun powder around 850 A.D., although I doubt they called it gun powder back then. Some things are bound to be old hat when you are an old dude!

Oh yeah you have to be able to articulate your points in writing as well.

[swheeler]

As far as painting with very broad brush.... that is called white washing.... and is not aiming his writings at the denizens of this board.... but has done that in past articles.

That is why people have such a hard time getting results, from old wives tails and poor



information getting repeated time after time.



If my wife grows a tail I'm cutting it off

[oldtoolsniper]

If my wife grows a tail I'm cutting it off

Don't get divorced because it and the horns will pop right out! :twisted:

[Recluse]

*shrug* Maybe I'm just different, or was just brought up or grew up different.

I'll never forget my first judo instructor, when I was eight years old, telling me that no matter how long I studied judo or jiu jitsu or karate or whatever, I would always be a student. And even as I grew and learned more and more, as a student, I would then have to learn how to disseminate what I already knew against what I didn't already know.

Seemed confusing to an eight-year-old little boy, but for some reason, I never forgot it. And throughout all the years and all the dojos, I've remained a student because I've mastered nothing, perfected nothing and am continuously learning.

Even more to the point is with pilots. Good pilots know that they are forever a student pilot and that the best flights are the ones in which we learn something new. I try to make it a point to learn something new each and every single time the landing gear leaves the runway. I've often noted these "lessons" in my logbooks. Many of these lessons learned have proven to be very beneficial in future flights. Some of the lessons, two in particular, directly saved my life when conditions went south on me.

I started reloading by my daddy's side in 1969. At first it was the cleaning of the brass and the sorting of the calibers. Then came the awesome responsibility of de-priming. Then lubing on the old RCBS lube pads and then, holy cow, re-sizing those .38 Special shells. . . and then lubing and re-sizing them all by myself SOLO!

Using the powder measure and trickler was done for years under the strictest of supervision from my daddy.

It was almost a full ten years before my daddy turned me loose on the Rockchucker and accessories to load up my own .38 Special and .45 ACP rounds. Along the way, he literally force fed me every reloading article, magazine and book he had or that he could borrow or get his hands on. His friends reloaded and I spent time with them learning their magic and techniques. We had an American Legion shooting range and those old goats all reloaded and did it right because they only shot one hole in their targets with their old rattletrap government series 1911s. . . . and they only shot using one hand.

Now, all these years later and I'm still learning. I will continue to subscribe to the Handloader magazine because there is always something in there to learn or be reminded of. The handloaders, casters and shooters I respect the most here at Cast Boolits are those who have no shame in admitting that they are still learning, and sometimes at an even enhanced pace regardless of how many years they've been doing this.

It's also funny how the pilots on this forum (Taz, MtGun44, Boz and some others) have the same philosophy about casting, handloading and shooting as they do flying--always something new to learn if you're willing to look for it.

In every issue of Handloader, I learn something new about powders I've never used or considered using. I learn about new products that have come out. I might never buy them, but I now have knowledge about them. I learn what some boolits look like that I've only read about or heard about but never really explored or researched.

Those all might be little things, but they're new knowledge.

When you think you've got it all figured out, it only means your brain is in atrophy mode and your personality is soon to follow.

:coffee:

[whisler]

A friend who taught me to ride a motorcycle told me " never get the idea that you are a really good rider or the bike will teach you otherwise". From painful experience, he was right. I think the same goes for many, many other things.

[HARRYMPOPE]

i shoot Linotype (because i have so much) in all of my 30 cal milsurps and dont slug bores.I generally shoot as well as others do at the matches.I didn't find Mikes articles to be too far off.I know guys that dont fire as shot before they slug bores and cast chambers etc.That's fine as it is what they choose to do in their hobby.

George

[dromia]

I have the electronic subscription to Handloader/Rifle/Hunter magazines, most of what I read has no interest or contains no new knowledge for me, however occasionally it throws up a new perspective on something, something I've forgotten, something totally new or something that wasn't relevant to me 20 years ago but is now. For that it is worth the twelve quid a year even if the journalism is drifting more to the tabloid rather than the broadsheet.

Anyway whether you agree with Mr V's article or not, it certainly has stimulated some debate on here, so that in itself surely means the article has some merit.

[10x]

My apologies, newtire and others. My website was designed with a Microsoft program - so naturally, the Microsoft browser screws it up. Most people have no trouble viewing it with Firefox or Chrome.

Fixing it would require a 100% re-write and I'm just not motivated to do that. In fact, I'm letting it go extinct when my current hosting contract expires later this summer. If there's something there you want to remember, better save it.

A link to your website would be appreciated....

[10x]

snipped
.... whether you agree with Mr V's article or not, it certainly has stimulated some debate on here, so that in itself surely means the article has some merit.

Indeed, the article does have merit. M.V. wrote about what works for him and what he is willing to accept in order to shoot more guns more often. This article gives us a window on who Mike is and what he likes. I feel like I know a bit more about him personally, and that he has the same point of view as I do on some things. The world would be a boring place if every one agreed about cast bullets.

Right now, M.V. "lives the life" many of us can only dream of - to earn a living doing what we love the most, then telling folks about it in a magazine. His excuse to his wife when he decides to buy a gun or bit of gear is " I have to do research..." in order to earn a living. Of that I am envious.

[cajun shooter]

First I would like to clear up this name that MV uses. We all know that he started using the name "DUKE" some time ago. This has come up before and MV explained it in full. He stated that it had nothing to do with MR JOHN WAYNE. It was the name of his favorite horse that he had for many years and decided to use it in honor of that animal.
We all have pets that are not pets but true family members. If you have ever had a AKC dog you are aware that they are given a name with the last name being your family name on all the paper work.
I for years dating back to the late 50's and early sixties could not wait for my magazines with articles by Skeeter, Nonte, Keith, and many others to arrive.
When I became a fan of MV it was the same. He took me to a world that I did not have the funds for but was able to enjoy by his articles.
A few years back MV decided to have surgery to lose some of his weight by being prodded by his wonderful wife for health reasons. By chance he and I became mail buddies during this time frame. He wanted to keep the secret until he had lost his first 100 pounds. I promised and kept my word as I told no one not even my own wife. Mike had a hard time with this battle and finally announced what he was doing.
I found out during this time that he is no different than any of us and is a very honest and sincere man.
We lost contact and I understand as we live in different worlds. Most of my knowledge about Black Powder has come from Mike and that may be a reason for his love of 5744 powder as it is used in place of BP in many calibers. That is most likely why he chose this powder as it was on hand.
I will be the first to admit that I enjoyed Mikes days when he produced articles about BP but he has taken a new road in life and that is quite normal for many people.
There is no way he would ever print anything he did not believe would help his followers and that is fact. His job has his work critiqued by thousands each month. How many of us would survive the same type of scrutiny? Later David Shultz AKA Cajun Shooter AKA Fairshake

[alamogunr]

Right now, M.V. "lives the life" many of us can only dream of - to earn a living doing what we love the most, then telling folks about it in a magazine. His excuse to his wife when he decides to buy a gun or bit of gear is " I have to do research..." in order to earn a living. Of that I am envious.

I envy his circle of friends and others that put him in contact with so many exceptional examples of various milsurps. The best I can do is order one from a mail order firm and hope it is not so beat up("very good condition") that I cannot return it to decent shooting condition.

[olafhardt]

OK, all I need is a shotgun , a center fire rifle, a rimfire rifle, a center fire handgun, and a rimfire handgun. I can reload all the center fires with unique and cast boolits and some shot. I ain't gonna reload the rimfires. What do I need Mike V for?

[10x]

OK, all I need is a shotgun , a center fire rifle, a rimfire rifle, a center fire handgun, and a rimfire handgun. I can reload all the center fires with unique and cast boolits and some shot. I ain't gonna reload the rimfires. What do I need Mike V for?

A friend maybe. Mike is an excellent writer. I have been a caster, reloader, and shooter for almost 50 years and I still like reading his articles. Mike gives us his perspective from his experience - we can agree with it, sort out what he does and maybe apply some of what he does for himself to what we do for ourselves. Sometimes it is a cast bullet load that will work well in a whole bunch of milsurp rifles that we do not feel the need to wring the last little bits of accuracy out of. I have some standard 30-30 loads that shoot reasonably accurately for the several 30-30 rifles I own. These get used when I decide to hunt small game - rabbits and such. I also have taylor made and tested loads for my 336 Marlin and my 840 (340 savage) bolt action. Loads that will cut cloverleafs in 5 shot groups at 50 yards with few flyers. Both the universal load and the developed load have their applications. I shoot the 840 bolt with 150 grain cast at gophers out to 125 yards when I visit my friends in gopher country. I will use the basic load (of which I keep at least a hundred on hand) when the mood strikes me to go out and look for snowshoe hare.

[Recluse]

OK, all I need is a shotgun , a center fire rifle, a rimfire rifle, a center fire handgun, and a rimfire handgun. I can reload all the center fires with unique and cast boolits and some shot. I ain't gonna reload the rimfires. What do I need Mike V for?

Hell, what do you need this forum for?

:coffee:

[felix]

Agree! Olafhardt, you might not need his writings, or info within, but the person himself you attacked by name or his personal reference. That might not have been your objective, but being vindictive is a no-no on this board. Please be careful from now on. ... felix

[HangFireW8]

Hell, what do you need this forum for?

:coffee:

Perhaps Olafhardt was being facetious? Would any of us really settle for one of each and one powder only?

HF

[olafhardt]

Hangfire, you are an astute gentleman. Olaf

[High Desert Hunter]

I read Handloader mostly for the articles from Mr. Pearce. I thoroughly miss Mr. Seyfried, I think I am a 45 caliber fanatic due to his writings. Mr. Venturino's articles often cover interests other than my own.