Hello a new guy wanting to get started

[ncmn]

Hello
Just bought an H&R Handie in 45-70 and due to cost of ammo I am looking into casting. Been reloading for awhile, using lead bullets already made for pistols only. Done some 308 rifle and 6mmbr reloading also. Looking at all the options in casting is kinda confusing. I would rather just buy ingots and cast from them for now as I have no source of lead as of yet. Also, I have not slugged the bore yet and dont know what size of mold to buy. I am looking at buying the Lyman manual and all the Lee goodies for casting that I need. I bought a box of 405gr Remingtons to try the rifle out, and of course to get brass. Ok, sorry for rambling, but I have a few questions. What is the basic setup for someone not wanted to use range lead, wheel weights or other lead, just ingots only.
I am looking at the Lee melter 20 lb melter if I can find one?
Does anyone on here sell good ingots that I can buy cheaper than some of the big resellers?
Do any of you have favorite loads for the 45-70 with that short 22 inch barrel.
Do you use BP or smokeless for paper punching?
Thanks for the help in advance.

[RickinTN]

I'll try to help here, but I'm sure others will be along soon. I started casting recently and bought my ingots already smelted to start. In the buy-sell section here you can usually find pre-smelted ingots in wheel weight or range lead for about $1/pound plus shipping and that seems like a pretty fair price to me. You'll want to decide on a mold, and although we were off to a rocky start I've grown to like the Lee double cavity molds pretty well. I have NOE and Accurate molds, and it's true the Lee doesn't compare to these in quality, but you can get a good bullet from the Lee molds, and they are a good buy, if you can find one to buy. Seems most retailers are out of most molds right now.
Buy and study one of the Lyman cast bullet handbooks.
Buy a Thermometer!!
It's been a while since I've shot a 45-70 much, but as I recall one of my favorite loads was a 405gr cast with about 12 grains of Unique. With a 405 grain bullet this is about the heaviest load in 45-70 that I want a steady diet of.
The Lee bottom pour has a reputation for dripping, and as well not holding steady temperature. I started with a 10lb Lyman pot and a Lyman ladle. I recently tried a 3 quart stainless pot on my Coleman stove, and I'm not sure I don't like it better. It holds more alloy so I have to stop less often to add to the pot, and mine holds temperature very well.
The 45-70 I think should work best with a relatively soft alloy. Clip-on wheel weights or a little softer maybe.
Use the link at the bottom of any page on this sight to LASC and you'll find enough information to study for months on alloys, casting and such.
Hope I've helped,
Rick

[DrCaveman]

I have that rifle, like it very much.

I asked about the level of loading that it could handle, the general attitude was: your shoulder will break before the gun. I liked to hear that.

It is a thumper. Med-high lever-action level loads hit the shoulder quite hard.

I've had great accuracy and no leading with max trapdoor loads. Also a bit into lever action loads.

I bought the lee 405 gr mold, the gun seems to like it and there are tons of loads out there for that boolit in that cartridge, at least pretty close to matching.

I liked my 12.5 gr unique loads, they were quite modest. I've lately bumped it to 15 gr and it has a little more authority. Still below classic BP/bison hunter velocities, but it's very conservative of powder cost.

I can't recommend any ingot sellers but it is really prudent to try and recover a few (if not most) of the slugs since they use up so much lead. Then you will have to learn to smelt.

[DrCaveman]

Also, there is a ton more to casting than buying the furnace, molds, and ingots. Read up lots and pour lots before you actually load and shoot them. As mentioned the LASC book 'from ingot to target' is a great resource and you can ask the fine folks here any further questions about casting or loading cast boolits.

[ku4hx]

Lyman's casting manual is always an excellent learning source and reference. I've had mine for over 40 years and I still refer to it quite often.

[41 mag fan]

For starters slug your barrel. You don't want to invest in a mold, that drops at .457 and your barrel slugs out at .458. You can size down, but not up. All my 45 cal molds for the 45-70 I have, drop at .460. My Marlin will take the .460, my Browning will take them at .458
Buying ingots is what most who sell on here sell. There's a few who sell raw weights but most already have smelted them down to where they are in usable ingots.
I've got 3 molds, RCBS 300gr, Accurate 405gr and 425gr.
My Marlin seems to like the 300gr with a 56.7gr load of Varget.
My Browning I'm going to have to have the throat reamed, as the throat is short which these guns are notorious for.
Lee molds will be a good buy, since this is your first time casting. I always say if you can make a Lee cast a good boolit, you'll have no problems getting a better quality mold to cast. Plus buying a Lee mold, you'll find out if casting is for you.
The Lee pots are a good pot to start out with. Yes they are notorious for leaking, but thats easily fixed.
The Lee pots holding temp is another thing. I've got a Lee, and I've learned where and when it needs adjusted on temp. Takes a whole sec to turn the knob, so it's not a big thing for me.
My Lyman furnace is the same, you have to adjust the temp.
Starline is still the best source for brass. Yes they are b/o'd but I got mine after a 3 week wait. 250 pcs for $118.00 shipped.

Do one thing, go thru do searches, and read. Get the From ingot to boolit download and read. get the basic equipment before starting.
1 melting pot
2 thermometer
3 fluxing material....pine bedding or sawdust is best
4 spoon for mixing flux in material and for skimming dross
5 mold of your choice
6 safety glasses, heavy gloves and apron(optional)

This will get you satarted and from there you can add as you get more experience.

[CML]

Only thing I can add that hasn't been covered is 5744 and Trailboss powder are both great choices. 45-70 was the first bullet I ever cast, less than a year ago. Still one of my favorites. I shoot an 18" Marlin guide gun. I like the 405gr bullets at about 1200FPS. Hits hard but not punishing to shoot.

[WHITETAIL]

ncmm, Welcome to the forum.
And the 45-70 is a good place to start.
If I were you I would buy a Limb saver.
It is a slip on recoil pad.
My friend has the same gun.
The load he used in it is
Starline brass
CCI 200 primers
IMR 4198-37grs.
And a Gould 330gr. boolit.:cbpour:

[ncmn]

Thanks so much for all the input, I have so much to learn but with todays prices and without knowing if it will get better I think I need to learn to cast. I have several that I could cast for, and 38/357 is also one on my favorites. I want to send the rifle in for a 357 barrel so I will have both, and also maybe 45LC. Looking for Ruger 45 to add to collection but it will have to wait awhile. One problem I see right now with all my searches is I cannot find 4198 or Trail Boss in stock anywhere. I have a good stock of Varget and IMR4895 but thats all. Primers are also getting impossible to find, course I know ya'll know that. I shot the gun today and it was about what I was expecting, though I would think that the Remington 405gr semijackets were pretty mild to what some of you shoot. I like it enough to want cast for it, and my others as well. Smelting is something I would do for sure if I could find a local source of lead. I have coleman 1 burner gas stove for backpacking and I might even try it with a dutch oven before investing in a Lee. I saw someone on here using one in another thread, and I havent even thought about it. I will swing by harbour freight and see if that have any 10lb ovens. Is the ladle vs bottom pour a big issue, cause I havent thought much about it, but I could see the advantage of using the little gas stove vs the Lee. I am back to searching the forum and I appreciate it guys.

[Echo]

My recommendation, worth what you are paying for it, is to go on our swap/sell forum and buy a Lee 10 /20 pounder. Inexpensive and quite utilitarian. Bottom pour. Buy your alloy here - I have bought from a member whose handle is 'The Captain', and she charges a reasonable price for good quality alloy. If no Lee pot available here, go to eBay and get one for $50-60 used, delivered.
Best of luck.

[ncmn]

Ok guys Thanks again, I guess its time to wait on the brown truck. I found a Lee 4-20 bottom pour, found some lead ingots from a member on here, starline brass is coming someday and a few odds and ends ordered. Got to get a place setup to do all this, as my shop is a mess right now. I have been reading way too much about this, just getting confused on somethings like lubes and powder choices. I am looking forward to getting started and sure I will have more questions later. Still got to slug the barrel when I find a sinker big enough. Looks like this may be a fun adventure for my free time. Yes I agree about the LimbSaver, just got to find which one fits, as I am sure I will need one while testing some loads.

[HangFireW8]

ncmn,

Welcome aboard! I also started with the 45/70 and this board, just a few years ago.

I don't see that anyone has mentioned our vendor sponsors, which would be the ideal place to buy lead. You could start with RotoMetals, which has a link ad on the top of every page.

Besides the LimbSaver (or Pachmayr Decelerator), you can really reduce recoil by casting lighter boolits. There was recently a Group Buy here for .460" "Collar Button" molds, if you could find someone willing to sell, that would make a good light recoiling load.

My shop can also be real messy. If I'm not messing it up with half-done projects, my better half is using it as a dumping ground for things that don't belong in "her" part of the house!

Hope you give it a try soon and have some fun!

HF

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Much good advice has been given to you so far and much more will be forthcoming I'm sure. There are many types of equipment, recommendations possible and ways to go. Do not become overwhelmed; if you feel that some issue is becoming confusing...ask questions here freely...someone will always answer and help you as there are many 45/70 shooters here with a lot of years/experience. The only recommendation I will make to you for the moment is that with the prices that are being asked/charged for a box of 45-70's now....whatever the amount that you spend on equipment, components, etc...now matter how much it is....you definitely will get it back in savings over any amount of time if you continue to shoot your rifle. I've got 3 45/70's and have enjoyed them for many years, so welcome again to the forum and the 45/70 world. LLS

[Buck-N-Rut]

I have a 45-70 mold I will sell you

[ncmn]

Well slugged the bore and best measurements that I can get is .458 and thats what I was hoping cause I ordered the Lee .459 405hb mold already. I hope it works out, this is a great place to learn and I have already spent a lot of time researching. I would like to find a .459 300gr bullet mold just to save lead and of course recoil. Any recommendations on a good one.

Also, with my current powders of varget or imr4895 which one would be best for the 405? I want to try 4198 and trail boss but cannot find anyone having either in stock.

[surfanarchist]

"I would like to find a .459 300gr bullet mold just to save lead and of course recoil. Any recommendations on a good one.
QUOTE"

You might want to look at the Saeco #15. Saeco is pricey, and you need to buy (or modify) another set of handles I think, but they drop really nice bullets. Like you I'm new at this but in my very limited experience the Saeco molds need the least breaking in. Maybe I'm just doing a better job at cleaning them. Who knows. I've got the Saeco #15 300 gr and Saeco #18 405 gr and they both work well in my Browning 1886.

[David2011]

ncmn,

Welcome to the group. You'll enjoy loading for the .45-70. It's just a great big pistol cartridge from the reloading perspective. The vendors sell good metal and it's going to be very hard to buy a known entity for less than their prices. With wheelweights and other random "scrap" metal there will be some variance from batch to batch and seller to seller. You will spend far less time experimenting and chasing results if you use a known, consistent alloy for boolits that big. They will sell you something with enough tin to flow well and enough antimony to be as hard as you need, whether you want air or water cooled boolits. Good old 2400 is a very versatile powder for the .45-70 from plinking to thumping loads.

David

[ncmn]

Thanks for the replies, and I guess I will be ready to try my first casting session this weekend. Everything is here and lead came in mail today. The Lee pot sure looks small to be 20LB but I guess I dont realize how much lead weighs yet? I am not real sure about the content of the lead I got, but I am going to give it a try as is, and see how it works. I am going to try air cooled first and if its not hard enough then try water. I do have to order the Lee Hardness checker yet, as I have no way to check the hardness. If I get a few good bullets, I will load some up and shot them this weekend as well. I am sure I will have more questions later this week.