Sluging a Smith & Wesson 9mm Luger. Mod.5946

[bgokk]

1. Drove a lead egg sinker through the bbl. after giving the barrel a coat of oil.
2. Cut a strip of aluminum from an Aldi's diet cola can.
3. Using 2 different mics, a. is a Harbor Freight digital & b. an old worn Starrett, both checked for zero. I determined the thickness of the strip of aluminum to be .0038". The mics agreed.
4. I wrapped the strip around the slug and holding the ends tight around it with parallel pliers I took several measurements with both mics a. & b.
5. I totaled and averaged the measurements from each mic, a. = .35784" & b. = .35988 Do you see where this is going?:?
6.I subtracted twice the thickness (.0038"x 2 = .0076") of the aluminum strip from each of the above average diameters. The slug (groove diameter) from a. is .35024" and from b. is .35228":groner:

Every time I read a thread about 9mm and leading I see recommendations for using .357" and even .359" boolits.

WHAT HAPPENED TO MY BARREL?? I must have gotten it wet and it shrank.[smilie=l:

Something went wrong. I cannot believe my groove diameter is that small.

Brooks

[Piedmont]

Why don't you pound your egg sinker in from the chamber end and just start it into the barrel, then knock it back out to the rear. Measure it in front of the chamber before you get the groove marks and go with that. Less math, better results.

[bgokk]

Why don't you pound your egg sinker in from the chamber end and just start it into the barrel, then knock it back out to the rear. Measure it in front of the chamber before you get the groove marks and go with that. Less math, better results.
That would give me the chamber throat but would not give me the barrel diameter.
Brooks

[Piedmont]

Yupp.

[wingnut49b]

If you want the barrel measurement, I have just driven the slug through the whole way. Then measure it directly. I've not ever wrapped any aluminum around the slug to measure.

[383]

If you want the barrel measurement, I have just driven the slug through the whole way. Then measure it directly. I've not ever wrapped any aluminum around the slug to measure.

I have a S&W 3913 and 5906 and have been trying to measure after slugging my barrels, but due to the odd number of grooves, you can't do a direct measurement.

[williamwaco]

I suspect the slug was not completely filling the bore and is thus smaller than the bore.

When I slug the barrel of a 35 caliber handgun I start with a 35 caliber bullet cast of soft lead and carefully selected for a minimum diameter exceeding .360.

[bgokk]

I suspect the slug was not completely filling the bore and is thus smaller than the bore.

When I slug the barrel of a 35 caliber handgun I start with a 35 caliber bullet cast of soft lead and carefully selected for a minimum diameter exceeding .360.

Here is the lead that sheared off when I drove the sinker through the S&W barrel. What do you think? 9mm case for size.

64325




Brooks

[292]

I've checked the 2 Smith 9mm barrels and they both ran small. I haven't got my notes in front of me but I think just under .355. I use a .356 Lee sizer with good results.

[williamwaco]

Here is the lead that sheared off when I drove the sinker through the S&W barrel. What do you think? 9mm case for size.

64325




Brooks

I think my theory was not correct.

[Char-Gar]

Mucho work for no meaningful information. The groove diameter of your barrel is .354 - .355. Size your bullets .358 and worry no more. No sense making this stuff so complex when there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

[Jim..47]

Question: How are you able to make the slug a particular size, as mentioned above? Do you sand down the sizing die or what?

[bgokk]

Question: How are you able to make the slug a particular size, as mentioned above? Do you sand down the sizing die or what?

I am not sure what you are asking. :confused:
The slug is an over size piece of soft lead (larger in dia. than the groove dia. of the barrel being slugged) which is driven through the barrel.
Slugging is done to establish the groove dia. of your barrel to get the right size (dia.) boolit (+.001 or .002) to avoid gas cutting and leading.

Brooks

[40Super]

Jim , He poured lead in a 9mm case and cut the slug out. I took a block of steel and did several helical endmill bores to make slugs about .008" over my different calibers. The empty case method is a good one and easier to make.
I think the op may have gotten the slug tipped when it was shaving lead at the beginning. It probably made the od too small then. I've had that happen when using a hammer. I now use a press for a nice even ,steady pressure(+lots of grease),my slugs come out great. Try again, this time about 3/4" from the end try to "fatten" the slug back up by putting a brass/copper rod up into the other end to crush the slug a little, then resume pushing the rest of the way out.

[bgokk]

Mucho work for no meaningful information. The groove diameter of your barrel is .354 - .355. Size your bullets .358 and worry no more. No sense making this stuff so complex when there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

We gained interaction!:kidding:
I am not yet loading boolits for the 9mm. I am just trying to get my ducks in a row so I may avoid some of the 9mm pitfalls.

I just could not understand how I got the very small groove dia. I actually slugged the barrel again using a ML round ball and came up with the same number.

I will, when I start loading for 9mm be using .358".

Brooks

[40Super]

The problem with just picking a number is that many barrels that are on the "small" size also won't chamber the oversize boolits. I have three barrels right now that won't chamber any lead slug that is bigger than J=word sizes. Then the other barrels will chamber .003" oversize. That's why I prefer to slug.

[Jim..47]

Thanks for the explaination 40 Super

[Cane_man]

why can't you just take a lead boolit, then tap it on the nose with a hammer? do it carefully and the boolit OD will expand 0.05 ~ 0.10 just right for a slug

[Char-Gar]

I have yet to encounter a 9mm firearm that won't chamber and fire a round with a .358 bullet. This includes a dozen or more us and euro handguns and a couple of sub-guns.

[40Super]

My XDm 9 and a Storm Lake NM 9mm conversion for my XDm40. Both slug at .3555 and a .357bullet barely fits. .358 will jam 70% of the time. It IS because they won't chamber a .358 bullet and not any other reason. My other barrel is a 45, that is tight also.

[Dan Cash]

Had a Star Model B 40 years ago that would not swallow any slug over .356. regardless, it taught me much about reloading and pistol shooting but I never had much luck with it and cast.

[Char-Gar]

64470

I can only speak of my own experience, but my 9mm load is a 124 grain TC bullet from an older El Paso made NEI. It is sized .358 and taper crimped as shown in the pic. It feeds without a bobble in my current 9mm firearms to wit; Sig P239, Sig P226, Browning Hi-Power, Smith and Wesson 59, Walther P-38, P.08 (1913 DWM) and an Uzi carbine. It has also been used in several 9mm firearms that no longer live at my house. It has never been a problem.

I did have problems with this load until I determined the correct seating depth and proper taper crimp. Once those issues were resolved, the round feeds through about two dozen firearms of various American and European makes.

[williamwaco]

Mucho work for no meaningful information. The groove diameter of your barrel is .354 - .355. Size your bullets .358 and worry no more. No sense making this stuff so complex when there is nothing to be gained by doing so.


+1.

To me, slugging a barrel is only an exercise in curiosity.

I do it occasionally but never to decide on sizing diameter.

.

[novalty]

I am looking to purchase a 124gr. TC 9mm mold for my S&W 5906, and my brother's Walther P-38. Been told by many to slug the barrels, was wondering if it would really be necessary? I have sizing dies for both .357 and .358 currently.

[bgokk]

I am looking to purchase a 124gr. TC 9mm mold for my S&W 5906, and my brother's Walther P-38. Been told by many to slug the barrels, was wondering if it would really be necessary? I have sizing dies for both .357 and .358 currently.

What I have seen with this thread is 1. "If the rounds will chamber" then the largest diameter that chambers is the size to use.

2. 9mm barrels vary considerably.

3. S&W barrels run on the small side.

4. Your gun will tell you if it's right or wrong.

The last word in #4 is the one that we all want to avoid.:groner:

[Voodoocld]

I have a 5906. The barrel slugged pretty small, i believe .3545", using the printer rod jig.

[Char-Gar]

I am looking to purchase a 124gr. TC 9mm mold for my S&W 5906, and my brother's Walther P-38. Been told by many to slug the barrels, was wondering if it would really be necessary? I have sizing dies for both .357 and .358 currently.

You should have read the entire thread. IMHO slugging your barrel is a waste of time because

1. US made 9mm barrels will run .354 - .355
2. Euro made 9mm barrels will run .356 - .357

Every 9mm I have fired, US and Euro, and I have fired dozens will feed and fire with accuracy cast bullets of .358. .356 or .357 will do just fine in US made firearms, but so will .358. IMHO .358 is the universal sizing diameters for any and all 9mm autopistols. I have never found one, but I suppose there could be a few floating around that will choke on .358. If you run into one of these, they are not dangerous with .358 rounds, but they might not chamber. Such pistols, if they exist, are seriously out of spec.

Bottom line is size your bullets .358 for your Smith and your brothers Walter and spend no more time over the issue.

Yes, I do know what I am talking about!

[novalty]

Well I have a sizing die in .357 and .358. Been thinking of contacting Mihec to order a 125gr mold from group buy. Guessing if I order a .359 mold and start sizing with .357, I should be good to go.

[fcvan]

Back in 85 when I first started loading 9mm for my S&W 459, I bought the Lee 356-125-2R and a .356 push through sizer. The 459 didn't like .356 nor did my brother's 659. As cast, the Lee drops at .358 so I pan lubed and shot as cast. I figured the seating and crimping would be doing some sizing of the boolit.

I used the chamber as my 'go, no-go' gauge and adjusted my dies accordingly. The alloy used then was pretty soft as it was range scrap from work where all we fired were factory hollow based wad cutters in .38 special. Unsized soft boolits, pan lubed with Javalina, over 5 grains of Unique became my standard 9mm load.

When I bought a Lyman 450, I bought the .358 sizing die and stuck with that until last year. I don't know what possessed me to buy a .357 sizer die but I did. The loads I fired when sized smaller keyholed at close range. The bore didn't lead but the load was the worst reloading blunder I had ever made.

I don't have the 459 any longer, but I do have a 3913 and my brother still has his 659. I can tell you with certainty, the Smiths, Glocks, Glock 40s with 9mm conversion barrels, and my Marlin Camp Carbine all love .358, but really didn't like .357 boolits. I traded that sizer die to a friend on this site.

[MtGun44]

novalty - yes, but if .357 doesn't work, size to .358. IME, the Lee 356-120 TC is
superb, conventional lube, sized to .358 now, started with .357 and it was suboptimum
in a couple of guns.

Bill

[40Super]

Not all 9 mm will chamber .358 ! I have 2 - and XDM and a Storm Lake(the rest will run them fine). So to try and universally just size to .358 can give you problems. They are not "out of spec" they are match type barrels.
It's a good chance if the barrel slugs small, the chamber will also, unless the chamber is cut generously to allow for the case wall thickness plus the extra boolit diameter.

[novalty]

I've contacted Mihec & hopefully will hear back from him soon on placing an order for a 359 125 cramer mold.