Cast in semi-auto?

[Dan H]

I have only cast 38 & 45 for revolvers, and have been completely satisfied, but I am looking to "possibly" add a couple semi auto's in 380 and 40 S&W.
I have a model 70 1911 but have only shot factory through it.
Please give your thoughts and experiences with cast for these calibers.

Thanks,

Dan H

[LarryM]

Just started feeding my kimber Custom II a part time diet of cast boolits. I'm currently using the Lee 452-228 -1R but it requires a pretty short OLA to feed through the Kimber. I lube with Lyman Super Moly and have not problemsif I load 'em short enough I'm thinking about the simlar style boolit from Lyman, it looks like it may have a better profile.

[DanM]

Your series 70 should eat cast up and leave you happy. 45acp is perhaps the most cast friendly auto pistol caliber, especially in a 1911.

[ReAX222]

Any info on the .40sw?

[jim4065]

My Glock gobbles up the Lee truncated cones with never a failure to feed. I know that it's not supposed to - but I keep it clean and hold the power done to 45 ACP levels and it does just fine. :-D

[lead_her_fly]

I have a Glock 21 with an aftermarket barrel. I also have a Taurus PT1911. I use a Lee TL 230 gr. LRN in both. The lube I have used so far is either Alox or Xlox. My "alloy" is 80% wheel weights and 10-20% antimony. This makes it hard enough that it goes up both feed ramps without any problem what-so-ever. Hardly any leading. I shot these in PPC out of the Taurus the other night and shot in the high 280's. Pretty good for a gun right out of the box with less than 300 rounds through it!

I am waithing on a .355" sizing die so I can do some #7 H&Gs in my 9mm. With this alloy I don't think I will have a problem.

[Jim]

I haven't been home 30 minutes. I just left Sportsman's Warehouse where I put a Taurus Millinium .40S&W on lay away. They had a Glock for $499 and a S&W for $499. The Taurus was $319.
Knowing that shooting "anything other than factory" through a Glock voids the warranty plus the fact that the Taurus was a wee bit smaller than the S&W, I went with the Taurus. And, YES, it cost less. [smilie=1:
I'll be feeding it Lee TL hard cast with JPW and givin' the plate machine hell!

:castmine: so I can :Fire:

[Unter]

Cast works fine in our 1911 .45's (200gr. swc) and the wifes 1911 9mm & 9mm carbine.

[Cloudpeak]

Cast works fine in our 1911 .45's (200gr. swc) and the wifes 1911 9mm & 9mm carbine.

Are you using the Lee 6 cavity mold? I've tried both the 452-200 SWC and TL 452-200 SWC in my 1911s and can't get reliable feeding. The non-tumble lube bullet does a better job. I can shoot Penns 200 SWC loads all day long with no problem. Very frustrating. I've tried all different COALs with the Lee 452-200 SWC and am about to give up. The Lee bullet is not a true copy of the H&G 68. I believe the Penns bullet is. It's hard to believe a small difference in shape can make so much difference in feeding.

I had great results with the Lee 6 cavities: TL401-175-SWC in my XD40 SC and the TL 356-124-2R round nose in my 9mm M&P but just can't get the 45s to work. My last mold, the TL 356-124-2R, hs been the best Lee mold out of four. The Bull Plate sprue lube is a godsend for these aluminum molds, btw. I've had zero feeding problems in the 9mm S&W.

Cloudpeak

[Dan H]

I just put in an order for a #668 200 gr mold with ballisti-cast for the series 70.
I'm gonna start casting for the 1911 and there the best that I've found.
I'm looking for input on 40 Smith & Wesson or .380. For the wife.
Turner's got a deal on a CZ 75 BD that's pretty tempting, but I prefer to cast my own and I'm looking for success stories.
I'd prefer she shoot something that I can make myself.

[lead_her_fly]

I'd prefer she shoot something that I can make myself.

I would agree with your thought process about making your own. I have one other question though. Is she an avid shooter or just getting started? The 40 S&W round in guns most women like, small (not scary), is a handful to shoot. We big fisted men don't think twice about the recoil but it is the first thing they will notice. You want her to keep shooting right?
I would suggest a good 9mm in an all steel gun if you are set on an automatic. Something like a Sig 226 in all stainless. Who is going to be cleaning the firearm anyway? Stainless will make that a lot easier! The rounds go much faster from an auto too. I am thankful my wife likes S&W revolvers! I bought her a 586 6" to target shoot with, she loves that gun. I load 38s in it. I also have a 226 with Megpro light gathering sights that she loves to shoot. Both are too big for her to carry so she has a Glock 26 for that. She will tell you right up front though, she doesn't like to shoot it! Too much "buck" for her! She has never complained about that from the other guns I have mentioned.
Just food for thought. My wife is my casting, reloading, shooting buddy along with my 5 kids!


:Fire:

[DanM]

I shoot a ton of the Lee 200SWC TL style in my 1911 and OM with no problems. They even feed in the Para Ordnance double stack. They are very accurate with either Titegroup or 231 loaded to about 930fps. As ususal, I dont have oal numbers in front of me (1.224"max I think), but I seat them to expose the front lube groove and use a FCD. Both Lee 230 TL styles, the TC and RN, are real shooters. They also offer an HG68 style 200SWC mold that has the usual lube grooves. The only .40cal I have shot much is a Browning HP. With factory WWB or Federal loads it is a pussycat. Factory sights are a bit awkward, but recoil is nothing but mild. Less than my BHP 9x19 with 125s @ 1120. Of course it is all steel with the best grip design ever made (imho).......

[9.3X62AL]

Dan H--

That price ($400) for the CZ-75BD is REAL GOOD. The decocking feature is a bit of an upgrade to the more common models, which are designed to be locked safe like a 1911A1 if a firing string doesn't consume the entire magazine. Gun Cranks Like Us can adapt to those sorts of design variances more readily than less addicted/more casual shooters can--if that's a factor.

The CZ offers a cast boolit advantage usually requiring an aftermarket barrel to enable--1/16" twist rate. Most 40's run 1/10" or 4 turns/meter (1/9.84"), which is twice as fast as needed for the short/fat boolit profiles used in autopistols. I have a CZ-75B in 40 S&W that I am absolutely delighted with as a cast boolit platform--it is certainly the best cast boolit 40 S&W I've ever fired, and may be the best 40 S&W I've ever tried PERIOD--including Glock and SIG-Sauer, the latter of which costs twice as much as the CZ. Mine is a keeper, for sure.

I've had zero leading and fine accuracy from the CZ using cast boolits. Most of these have been Lee 175 TC's, but also some commercial 175's with that lame candle-wax lube (Western Nevada, from Turner's). Since 40 S&W barrels adhere pretty closely to the .400" groove diameter standard, these store-bought castings work well in the CZ's barrel. I wouldn't try that stunt in the 9mm--their grooves can be all over the map dimensionally, usually wider than the "book" .355". Store-boughts in 9mm often mean the Lewis Lead Remover in the cleaning kit gets a new contract. PITA!

9mm vs 40 S&W........lots of gunrag and Internet debate on THAT question. Since as Californians we are limited to 10-round magazines regardless of caliber, many shooter opt for the 40 S&W. The 40 is a more powerful, more effective stopper than the 9mm IF MOST USA-LEVEL LOADS ARE USED. If the 9mm is given original-spec loads (125 grain bullets @ 1200-1250 FPS), there is little difference in recoil between the two calibers, to me anyway. Stopping potential is increased as well. If the 147 grain sub-sonic FBI-embraced JHP's or the usual run of Winchester white box FMJ's are fired, there is a marked reduction in recoil (and performance) with the 9mm. I know this will incense Facklerites and the Sub-Sonic Sub-Culture, but that's my opinion--and I'm entitled to it. Don't waste bandwidth trying to change my mind. I back that judgement by carrying Speer 124 grain Gold Dot +P's in the SIG P-226 and P-228.

With that in mind, I wouldn't try getting creative with the 40 S&W ballistics. 175-180 grain bullets at 925-950 FPS do a fine job of both working the action and tipping over recipients. The only thing gained by hot-rodding the 40 S&W is accellerated wear to the platform. It's already a +P, in a manner of speaking.

Next post--more opinionated maunderings on the 380 ACP, the American League West race, and the Oakland Raiders.

[9.3X62AL]

The 380 ACP is a very user-friendly cast boolit pistol caliber, owing to its relatively low operating pressures--an attribute it shares with the 45 ACP, which is surely the most lead-friendly autopistol caliber available today. The 380 also has a few of the 9mm's bad habits--wide groove diameters and ultra-fast twist rates--but if addressed with boolits that fit, all goes well.

The 380 ACP has seen its best days already. The onslaught of compact and sub-compact 9mm Luger pistols has a lot to do with that, especially since there isn't a huge price difference between 9mm's and 380's of a simlar quality level. I've had A LOT of 380 pistols--Colts (old and new), SIG-Sauers, Walthers, and a Beretta 84F. Decent little pistols, but I haven't had one in 5 years. I do have two 32 ACP's, though--and the 32 ACP is more accurate by accident than the 380 ever was on purpose, jacketed or cast. Granted, this is a non-issue for exchanging finality in an alley of parking garage, but I use these blowbacks for small game hunting, and the 380 doesn't make the cut for little targets.

If I were to select a pocket blowback for self-defense, it would be the 9mm Makarov. I have an East German-made variant, and it is a superb service pistol. It devours cast boolits like a greedy animal. There are quite a few of the Maks still around, and the CZ-82 is made in this caliber. There were recent threads on the CZ-82 pistol here. Makarov prices are low, and you get A LOT of pistol for your money.

AL West looks like the Angels, and as for the Raiders........well, San Diego's LaDanian Tomlinson is a class act.

[Dan H]

Excellent input all.
Lead her fly my wife shoots 146 grain wadcutters (Don't know if they're supposed to be 148 grain, got the mold at a gunshow) cast from a 4 cavity Lyman mold over 3 grains tightgroup or 2.7 grains Bullseye. She loves this ammo.
She shot ONE

[Dan H]

Meant to say she shot one 357 round out of her model 520 S&W and that was it, she said never again.
I just wanted to get her the pistol so she could have one in her collection.

I'm liking the 32 ACP idea.


Thnaks for the input


Dan H

[Unter]

Cloudpeak:
Are you using the Lee 6 cavity mold? I've tried both the 452-200 SWC and TL 452-200 SWC in my 1911s and can't get reliable feeding.

Yes, the 452-200-swc in a 6 cavity mold. OAL is 1.235. They work fine in all of our 1911's. My sons gun would not shoot any cast reloads reliably until I got a Lee Factory Taper Crimp Die and ran my reloads thru it. His gun runs fine with them now.:Fire:

Try it, it might help. The same type of die also fixed a problem with 9mm swc's out of a 1911 we have. The gun would shoot cast rn's but not these store bought swc's until the factory taper crimp die was used.

[ReAX222]

I don't know what powders you like, but I have a few soft loads for .40sw 170grain moly coated bullets. 3.9grains of unique with a magnum primer, 4.2 grains of AA#2 with a standard primer and 4.0 grains of winchester 231 with a standard primer.

I couldn't make 3.9 grains of unique to cycle with standard primers and my 19# recoil spring. All of these were light fun plinkers in my G22.

[USARO4]

I've shot cast .380 in Keltecs and many Bersa pistols. I've shot cast 9mm in Taurus, Glock, Browning, Ruger and others I cant remember. I've shot .40 in Ruger, Taurus and Glock. 45acp in various 1911 clones, Ruger, Taurus, and Bersa. I've never had any significant problems, mostly just tweaking OAL for proper feeding. At this point in my obsession with all things cast I cant imagine not shooting lead in semi-auto pistols. Just do a search on this website and you'll find all the detailed info you need.

[Cloudpeak]

Yes, the 452-200-swc in a 6 cavity mold. OAL is 1.235. They work fine in all of our 1911's. My sons gun would not shoot any cast reloads reliably until I got a Lee Factory Taper Crimp Die and ran my reloads thru it. His gun runs fine with them now.:Fire:

Try it, it might help. The same type of die also fixed a problem with 9mm swc's out of a 1911 we have. The gun would shoot cast rn's but not these store bought swc's until the factory taper crimp die was used.


I shot some of these bullets set to 1.235 COAL in my LW Champion and had several 3 point jams. I do use the Hornady taper crimp die to remove the bell and the cartridges fall easily into the chamber. (I don't think the Lee TCD will work in the LNL due to interference with the shell plate, but am not sure.)

Cloudpeak

[Sundogg1911]

I cast for .380 for my Daughters Walther and my NAA Guardian. Cast works well in both! (I think the mould I have is a 90 gr. RN) I cast several different weight .40 S&W. I shoot only cast with my Infinity Race gun, and almost always shoot cast with my CZ 40B (I carry Winchester Silvertips in that one for defense) I also cast about 10 different style and weight .45 ACP for my 1911 collection. There is no auto loader that works with cast bullets better than a .45 ACP. It's a low velocity load. I feel that shooting jacketed in a 1911 at the range is a waste of money (IMHO) once again if i'm carrying one of my 1911's it's with factory HP's just to avoid lawsuits If I would ever need it to defend myself, but that's a different thread completely! ;-)

[nicholst55]

I've shot a ton of cast through .45ACP over the last 30 years in a number of 1911s, including at least one that belonged to Uncle - mostly all SWCs. I used to own a Lyman 452460 200 grain SWC mold, and I shot a ton of them. I made the mistake of loaning it to a 'friend' and he destroyed the mold blocks. Last mold I ever loaned out.

I also shot a bunch of the old Lee 190-SWC, and they fed fine also. I don't have any load data handy, but I used Unique, W231, and 700X mostly.

Interestingly, I didn't have any difficulties getting cast SWC ammo to feed through a GI 1911 after polishing the feed ramp (not throating - just polishing), and using commercial magazines.

[JRR]

I have a wonderful CZ75B SA in 40S&W. It shoots the RCBS 40-180-FN with great accuracy. In fact, it is the best cast bullet platform/projectile I have yet to experience in a semi-auto.

Try the RCBS 180 with Herco, Unique, AA5 and AA7, and believe it or not WC820 Slow, with AA9 data. My best load with THIS pistol is 5.8 gr. of Herco. 950 fps with superb accuracy at 25 yards.

[35remington]

Cloudpeak, what magazines are you running in your 1911's? I would think there would be something out there that should work with the Lee 68 pattern 200.

[rigmarol]

I haven't been home 30 minutes. I just left Sportsman's Warehouse where I put a Taurus Millinium .40S&W on lay away. They had a Glock for $499 and a S&W for $499. The Taurus was $319.
Knowing that shooting "anything other than factory" through a Glock voids the warranty plus the fact that the Taurus was a wee bit smaller than the S&W, I went with the Taurus. And, YES, it cost less. [smilie=1:
I'll be feeding it Lee TL hard cast with JPW and givin' the plate machine hell!

:castmine: so I can :Fire:

Jim, I have the same firearm and it loves my cast Lee TC TL boolits! lubed with Felix. Enjoy!

[Cloudpeak]

Cloudpeak, what magazines are you running in your 1911's? I would think there would be something out there that should work with the Lee 68 pattern 200.

I have six of the Springfield Armory 7 round factory mags. All mags feed the 200 SWC Penns lead bullets and WWB 230 grain without a hitch.

I'm really stumped. Neither the Lee 200 TL SWC (which is much shorter but has a larger flat nose diameter than the othe Lee or the Penns) or the Lee 200 SWC which is supposed to be a copy of the HG 68 (and it is close but not identical) feed 100%. I'm tearing my hair out and I don't have much to spare:-D

Cloudpeak

[Unter]

Originally Posted by Cloudpeak:
I do use the Hornady taper crimp die to remove the bell and the cartridges fall easily into the chamber. (I don't think the Lee TCD will work in the LNL due to interference with the shell plate, but am not sure.)

Not saying this will solve the problem, but with similar experience the Lee die worked. It was used after the seating/crimp die.

Good luck,
John O.

[9.3X62AL]

No more Raider or Angel commentary, I promise.

I will make at least one bad pun, though--the 45 ACP is an unalloyed delight as a cast boolit caliber and platform. I think the last jacketed 45 ACP bullets I bought were purchased at least 10 years ago, to me such expense is just wasted money. My 45's (S&W and Glock, this week) both dote on the classic GI RN duplicator, Lyman #452374. A box-stock Colt Series 70, a couple SIG P-220's, a S&W M-4513, a Kimber target variant, and even a *** Auto-Ordnance digested this one without a hiccup.

The two current 45's also process Lyman #452460 very well. Some Glock shooters report that SWC's hang up in their pistols, but these seem to be more a characteristic of the compact models.

I'm not a strident cheerleader for Lee molds, but their series of TC designs at "standard" weights for 9mm, 40/10, and 45 ACP are GREAT designs. In the SIG 9mm's and the CZ-75 x 40, they shoot accurately and feed like water in a funnel. I haven't tried the 45's in the Glock 21 yet, but they did very well in my much-fired S&W M-645. These are all conventionally-grooved boolits, not TL's.

[35remington]

I'm not familiar with Springfield magazines. Do these have the Colt pattern tapered lips or the parallel lips? Have you tried the GI full tapered style without the abrupt release point?

If the gun will not run with the Lee longnose SWC and the proper (NOT wadcutter style) magazines then there's something wrong with it. The shorter SWC is going away from what the 1911 was designed to feed and I wouldn't be so upset about that one not working.

Experiment with your magazine release timing, leaning toward later release magazines that let the rear of the round rise fully into the extractor (tapered lips). That's why I suggested the GI type.