Elmer Keith's family today

[omgb]

I just finished reading "Hell, I was there" by Keith. OK, now my curiosity is up. When did Elmer's wife Lorraine pass away?

How about his son Ted? He would have to be about 70-73 now. Is he still up and going?

[Swagerman]

I too, would like to find out some information on Ted Keith.

Accually think we served together in the same Navy air squadron, VC-35 that later became VA AW-35. This unit was based at NAS North Island San Diego, CA. around 1955 to 1957.

The Ted Keith I met there was an electronics electrican, he knew I was avid shooter who spent a lot of time in the eastern desert down there.

What makes me think its the same Ted Keith, the guy was from Montana, he had a Colt SAS in .44 special, that looked like it was done by Croft, and his belt and holster looked same as some of Elmer's rig...the Montana style belt that was tall in its height.

If it was him, he never mentioned his Pap, Elmer.

Jim

[Bret4207]

IIRC Lorraine died a couple years after Elmer. Ted was a CPA last I knew and thats it.

[mark348]

there is an article in the sept 2006 percision shooting,,,by al marion,,, he talks about helping ted with the cabelas elmer keith musem in idaho,,,so at least last year ted as still doing well,,,,he made sure elmers trophies and many guns were to finally be on display,,,, i hope to go eventually

[G. Keith 444]

I am Elmer Keiths grandson and the Keith family is in bad shape. My son and I will stand by my father no matter what happens but my dad has gone through a hard time with my older sisters fighting over gun money and control over the estate and Ted. Ted is getting divorced but he has me and my son and we will never let anyone or anything harm him.

[Nueces]

Sorry to hear that, GK, but thanks for checking in with us. I bet many of us would want to help y'all out if that were workable. Please let us know.

[slim1836]

It is good that you are there for him, as it should be. I pray that all gets worked out so he can move on and enjoy life to the fullest.

Slim

[M-96 Hunter]

Elmer's guns were all sold off. That's the $ they are fighting over. Same old story.

[Warhawk]

I am Elmer Keiths grandson and the Keith family is in bad shape. My son and I will stand by my father no matter what happens but my dad has gone through a hard time with my older sisters fighting over gun money and control over the estate and Ted. Ted is getting divorced but he has me and my son and we will never let anyone or anything harm him.

Sorry to hear that. But know that your grandfather had a huge impact on the world of guns, shooting, and ammo.

[Char-Gar]

This is a sad but all to familiar story. Death and money brings out the worse in people. You find out what people are really like in these times.

[Artful]

G. Keith 444 , thanks for keeping us up to date - Elmer was a great writer and educator for many of us - Tell your father to hang in there from all of us

[smoked turkey]

G Keith 444 By all means stand by your amazing and iconic grandfather Elmer, and his son, your dad, Ted as well. The situation as you and Char-Gar have so well described has played out in family after family and brings nothing but shame on them. Not so to you, your dad, or grandfather. Sounds like you are all good men and you seem to be raising your son to be one to be proud of also.

[Thin Man]

G. Keith 444, when I was very young and just getting started in my love for the world of firearms I was challenged by a question I could not answer. It was technical and way over my head. At that time Elmer was working with one of the magazine companies posting responses to mail-in questions. I wrote to him with my query, and he responded. He hand wrote his response directly on the letter I had mailed to him. When I opened the envelope and saw his hand writing, I had to sit down and let the reality of the event soak in. It was hard for me to believe that one of the greatest men I had ever heard of would take the time to communicate directly with a new shooter with his wisdom and experience. I still have that letter stored in a secure area to preserve it. I'm very sorry for your family's conflicts, but as others have said that is the usual outcome when estate assets are being divided. I hope all this gets resolved and your family can find peace.

[Streetwalker]

One thing that was very apparent to me when reading Elmer Keith's book "Hell, I Was There" is that Elmer was an incredibly tough and resilient man who overcame severe physical setbacks and other difficulties in his life. I would like to think that same tenacity and basic toughness has carried over to Elmer's children and grandkids and that the rough patch they are going through now will pass and the whole Keith family will come back together and prosper.

[Lloyd Smale]

your grandpa was is one of my heros. Its sounds like some of his blood runs through your veins. Id bet hed be real proud of his grandson.
I am Elmer Keiths grandson and the Keith family is in bad shape. My son and I will stand by my father no matter what happens but my dad has gone through a hard time with my older sisters fighting over gun money and control over the estate and Ted. Ted is getting divorced but he has me and my son and we will never let anyone or anything harm him.

[sixshot]

G Keith, although I never met your father Ted I did meet your grandfather several times in the 70's & bought most of his books which he signed for me. My wife always liked to sew so she would sit & visit with your grandmother Lorraine while Elmer would take me out back to his trophy/writing room in the back yard, it was a great time for a young guy like me to meet such a great man who was patient & shared so many memories of life, hunts, guns, loads, etc. Good for you for looking out for your father & I hope all goes well for your family. As mentioned I'm sure many forum members would jump in & help. Family problems over money/estates can be nasty, we've been there! Also, lets not forget that John Taffin had been a big help with the Keith family in getting the Cabelas store to display much of what Elmer had in his back yard trophy room before the guns were auctioned. I have several photo's of that same room in the back yard.

Dick

[John Ross]

I am Elmer Keiths grandson and the Keith family is in bad shape. My son and I will stand by my father no matter what happens but my dad has gone through a hard time with my older sisters fighting over gun money and control over the estate and Ted. Ted is getting divorced but he has me and my son and we will never let anyone or anything harm him.

Mr. Keith:
I hope this message finds you, as I see you only posted the one message on this board, almost a year ago.

I started corresponding with your grandfather in 1971 when I got a .44 magnum M29 for my 14th birthday. After dozens of letters back and forth over the next 4 years, I spent several days each summer from 1975 to 1978 with Elmer and Lorraine in Salmon. He was a powerful influence on me and my interest in firearms, and he always invited me to his attic where he kept all of his best guns.

I built my first .50 BMG rifle in 1976 and took it out to show him that summer. He liked it!

Maybe two or three years after Elmer died, I was in a gun shop, Cape Outfitters, here in Missouri. The owner, Don Shrum, said he had three (I think) of Elmer's guns for sale. I was skeptical, as I understood all of Elmer's guns were being retained by the family for display in a museum that they hoped to create. Shrum said that the guns in his shop had been sold by your father to get funds to buy a boat, and to his knowledge were the only firearms that had left Elmer's estate at that time (1986 or thereabouts).

I looked at the three guns. One was a German bolt action rifle in (I think) 9.3x64 caliber with typical German stock design and carving that I find unattractive. The second was some other long gun (shotgun or rifle, I don't recall) that I didn't remember seeing before in Elmer's attic.

The third gun, however, was one I had handled myself at Elmer's house a decade before: His single shot Rigby Farquharson .577 Nitro that he had often written about. I knew it was the same gun not only because I'd handled it before, but because I really like Farquharsons and it is well known that John Rigby & Co. only made one .577 Farquharson in their entire history.

Could you or your father Ted shed more light on the details of the guns from Elmer's estate that ended up at Cape Outfitters in Missouri in the mid-to late 1980s? Was it three guns, as I recall, or a different number? What were the other guns, besides the Rigby .577 single shot?

Here's some photos:

231606
In Elmer's attic in 1975; me examining a Farquharson in a smaller caliber, don't remember what, stocked by Iver Henriksen IIRC, June 1975.

231607
With Elmer and the first .50BMG I built, June 1976

[Hardcast416taylor]

Back in the 1960`s I was fortunate to meet your GrandDad Elmer at a William`s Gunsight dinner for their dealers. Elmer was the guest speaker and had many funny anectdotes about his hunting adventures. I had him autograph my name tag and `rescued` an empty beer can that he had drained and sat down. Sadly both those items are gone missing somewhere.Robert

[TheGrimReaper]

Mr. Keith:
I hope this message finds you, as I see you only posted the one message on this board, almost a year ago.

I started corresponding with your grandfather in 1971 when I got a .44 magnum M29 for my 14th birthday. After dozens of letters back and forth over the next 4 years, I spent several days each summer from 1975 to 1978 with Elmer and Lorraine in Salmon. He was a powerful influence on me and my interest in firearms, and he always invited me to his attic where he kept all of his best guns.

I built my first .50 BMG rifle in 1976 and took it out to show him that summer. He liked it!

Maybe two or three years after Elmer died, I was in a gun shop, Cape Outfitters, here in Missouri. The owner, Don Shrum, said he had three (I think) of Elmer's guns for sale. I was skeptical, as I understood all of Elmer's guns were being retained by the family for display in a museum that they hoped to create. Shrum said that the guns in his shop had been sold by your father to get funds to buy a boat, and to his knowledge were the only firearms that had left Elmer's estate at that time (1986 or thereabouts).

I looked at the three guns. One was a German bolt action rifle in (I think) 9.3x64 caliber with typical German stock design and carving that I find unattractive. The second was some other long gun (shotgun or rifle, I don't recall) that I didn't remember seeing before in Elmer's attic.

The third gun, however, was one I had handled myself at Elmer's house a decade before: His single shot Rigby Farquharson .577 Nitro that he had often written about. I knew it was the same gun not only because I'd handled it before, but because I really like Farquharsons and it is well known that John Rigby & Co. only made one .577 Farquharson in their entire history.

Could you or your father Ted shed more light on the details of the guns from Elmer's estate that ended up at Cape Outfitters in Missouri in the mid-to late 1980s? Was it three guns, as I recall, or a different number? What were the other guns, besides the Rigby .577 single shot?

Here's some photos:

231606
In Elmer's attic in 1975; me examining a Farquharson in a smaller caliber, don't remember what, stocked by Iver Henriksen IIRC, June 1975.

231607
With Elmer and the first .50BMG I built, June 1976
Than-you what a neat story.

[repeat]

I know this is a long ago thread but I have to mention how I met Elmer Keith.
In 1979 a new release of a book by Elmer Keith would hit the market and a gun show where I lived would have them.
At the show I had a table with a few guns for sale and asked the person next to me to look after my table while I went to buy a book and when I got there a lady said Elmer Keith is here signing books but he is out right now so I bought the book Hell I was there and went to the hotdog stand and bought a hot dog and went to the condiment stand to fix my hot dog and a wiery older gentleman was there fixing his hot dog and we had a short conversation as I mentioned I just bought the book.I said he was a legend and he said he is not all he is cracked up to be and went back to my table.That man came by my table and picked up my book and signed it,Elmer Keith and winked at me.
That book was stolen from my table by some low life and I can't find that book anywhere for a reasonable price.Still is a legend.

[Electrod47]

Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, Bob Milek, Jim Carmichael all those men could write in a manner to draw you in and help you appreciate your firearm hobby. Today's gun rags are just that, paid advertising. I'v collected and kept all the aforementioned writers articles and books and treasure them to re-read as my education continues now for 60 years.

[lightman]

I know this is a long ago thread but I have to mention how I met Elmer Keith.
In 1979 a new release of a book by Elmer Keith would hit the market and a gun show where I lived would have them.
At the show I had a table with a few guns for sale and asked the person next to me to look after my table while I went to buy a book and when I got there a lady said Elmer Keith is here signing books but he is out right now so I bought the book Hell I was there and went to the hotdog stand and bought a hot dog and went to the condiment stand to fix my hot dog and a wiery older gentleman was there fixing his hot dog and we had a short conversation as I mentioned I just bought the book.I said he was a legend and he said he is not all he is cracked up to be and went back to my table.That man came by my table and picked up my book and signed it,Elmer Keith and winked at me.
That book was stolen from my table by some low life and I can't find that book anywhere for a reasonable price.Still is a legend.

Thats a cool story! Sorry to hear that your book was stolen.

[Eddie Southgate]

Lorraine died in 1998 if I remember correctly.

[jonp]

Elmer's guns were all sold off. That's the $ they are fighting over. Same old story.

Want to find out someones true character short of going into combat with them? Have someone die with money involved. I never forgave my aunt, mother and both sisters for what went on over my grandfather and grandmothers belongings.

[Kestrel4k]

Want to find out someones true character short of going into combat with them? Have someone die with money involved. I never forgave my aunt, mother and both sisters for what went on over my grandfather and grandmothers belongings.
So in other words, combat. :-/

[Blkpwdrbuff]

Truer words were never spoken. Money turns families into bitter, hateful enemies for the rest of their lives and beyond.
Blkpwdrbuff

[MaryB]

Truer words were never spoken. Money turns families into bitter, hateful enemies for the rest of their lives and beyond.
Blkpwdrbuff

Truer words...

My little bro tried to muscle me out of my parents wills. Said since I was single his kids deserved it more than me... my sisters took him aside and literally beat some sense into him but I will no longer talk to him or go to any gathering he is at... he was super mad dad left all his tools to me. He would have sold them off, I use those tools and have memories of using every one with Dad...

[jonp]

So in other words, combat. :-/

Not really except between them. I was so disgusted by the squabbling and backstabbing I washed my hands of it all and moved to AZ for college.

Never spoke to any of them again. They have all passed away and I did not go to any of their funerals.

[alamogunr]

Sad stories about families fighting over estates. I'm lucky that I'm not wealthy and definitely not well known. I think we raised our sons to have more values and sense.

[shooterg]

True that on family greed ! But glad this thread got rebooted as some neat stories above I'd missed !
Like many here I couldn't wait for the next article by Elmer or Skeeter.

[Chena]

+1 regarding inheritance. I have seen it poison many families, and degrade several otherwise good people. It has cropped up three times in my own family. Despite some regrets over keepsakes, I shrugged my shoulders each time and moved on. The memories are far more precious than the objects themselves. Last year I spent a long evening admiring a collection of family firearms going back at least to the 1930s that had been snagged by a nephew by marriage. I knew the history of each gun and took pleasure in passing down the stories. The circumstances gave him a valid moral claim based on good works and anyway why start trouble with people you should care about more than a pile of walnut and steel? At least three of the guns were legally mine, which I didn’t think worth creating ill will by mentioning. I got to handle my father’s hunting rifles, the first shotgun I ever hunted pheasant with, the first deer rifle I ever carried, the first .22 revolver I ever owned and the first rifle I ever refinished. That was enough. My own son was present and I did get the Devil in me and wink at him whenever my nephew looked a bit shame faced and started to fidget.

[M-Tecs]

From personal experience the family members that did the least in helping/supporting the parents expect the most and they are that are generally the source of the conflict.

[MaryB]

From personal experience the family members that did the least in helping/supporting the parents expect the most and they are that are generally the source of the conflict.

Describes my little bro to a T... When mom and dad needed help they called me knowing I would be there ASAP, be it with cash, a helping hand, a drive somewhere when sick(took Dad to the hospital for emergency gallbladder surgery...). Little bro? I am busy, it is football night and we are partying... or he was to tired and had to work when it was a 2 AM call like the gallbladder call I got... I also spent way more time with mom and dad at the lake fishing, he always wanted to hang with friends instead... if dad was building something he usually called me, little bro didn't know which end of a screwdriver to handle...

Came time for the estate and little bro was first in line demanding more for his 3 kids...

My oldest sister told him in front of the probate judge to shut up and sit down. It is an even 5 way split but if you argue we cut you out and a 4 way... he lost out on a life insurance payout because of that! My oldest sister who was in charge of the estate told him enough was enough, he missed out on $10k... again he wanted my share because he had kids and I didn't...

[gc45]

My folks were pretty well off later in life; my Dad grew up very poor but was the hardest worker I have ever known, a huge saver/investor, mostly he bought properties for rentals or pastures because of their farm and always wanting more cows. I was the one staying close to home and looking out for them; but when Dad passed and Mom 3yrs later, and as their Executor, I decided my Brothers and I would share everything evenly. It helped being a close knit Christian family IMO -

[Brokenbear]

Well I'll tell you what folks when it comes to family ..go into life expecting to be let down ..when it happens you already knew it was coming and when it doesn't just enjoy the small miracle ..don't hate because someone does not have your "class" and sense of fair play and honesty but rather pity them ..remembering they are not worth hating ..not worth lowering yourself to their level ..Feel strength in YOUR ability to forgive and forget
Believe me I have had my own family disappointments but taking the high ground will always always leave you in a position of moral and mental strength that dollars alone will not and cannot fulfill

Bear

[nvbirdman]

My brother lived near our parents, I lived about 500 miles away. When our parents needed something, it was him that they called. When they passed away, he handled their estate since he was in the area. He asked me for a Power of Attorney to simplify matters and I did not hesitate to sign it. He also called one day and suggested a 60-40 split since he had been there for them and he was handling the estate. I was just about to call him and suggest one third, two thirds.
I'm sure when I'm gone, my two daughters will be fighting tooth and nail.

[rintinglen]

From personal experience the family members that did the least in helping/supporting the parents expect the most and they are that are generally the source of the conflict.

Truer words were never uttered. When my Grandmother died, my Aunt Muriel and her sister were screaming at one another, fighting over my Grandmother's china cabinet. I know that neither had done anything for my grandmother--too busy with their families--so my mom and dad and my cousin took turns taking her to the grocery store. My father was one of the executors, and just shook his head. I was only 16 at the time, but was appalled. I believe my Aunt Lela bought the china cabinet from the estate, which was my father's and her way of putting those two harridans in their place.

[dale2242]

I just established a living trust.
That will solve a lot of problems.
Anyone that contests it gets $1.

[WRideout]

Truer words were never spoken. Money turns families into bitter, hateful enemies for the rest of their lives and beyond.
Blkpwdrbuff

Whenever I see a business that advertises, "We treat you like family," I want to tell them "Please just treat me as well as you would any stranger."

Wayne

[Frank V]

Folks, could we get back to Keith?
He was an icon in the gun field, when I was young I tried to read every article he wrote. Today I am still a fan of the .44 Special!
Thank you Elmer!

[Chena]

Back to Elmer: although he hated the title, “Hell I was There” is the most entertaining gun book I have ever read. It documents a time that will never return and gives a deep insight into the Master’s personal history and character. His work on shot guns for waterfowl started my 10 gauge double stage. Wish I still had that gun, but it was expensive to feed and my shooting skills never rose to it’s potential. Through trial and error I eventually realized that the more I deviated from his prescriptions for the .44 Spl and .44 Mag the less success I enjoyed. It seems terribly sad that Keith’s personal battery has been broken up and sold while Jack O’Connor’s has not.