Lee .452 sizing die

[fordfan]

Hello all I am casting for 45acp using a lee mold 200gr wc tl and they are dropping out at .453 or .454 most of the time. With that said I ran them through my lee sizing die witch is new and they measured .450 that to me is way to small. Is this something I should take up with Lee Precision or is there something I could do to the die? And if I were to load them at the .453 or .454 would that hurt or damage anything? At the .450 I'm getting light leading. Any help in this matter would be appreciated.

[Spud]

I'd try them as they drop from the mold, make up some dummies and if they chamber, I'd shoot some and see how they do accuracy-wise. .450 is way too small for most ACP's IMO. As for the die, I'd send it back to Lee (after calling them) along with a couple of sized boolits and see what they say. TL boolits were originally designed to be loaded un-sized (within reason), I believe.

[Captain_Howdy]

yea dude send it back and watch ot for those witches...even though some of them are pretty hot in the end they just wanna fatten you up and have a feast!

[Plinkster]

If you're handy just hone out the sizing die yourself after making sure you need it at all. It's simple and fairly quick with a piece of dowel sand paper and a drill. I'd bet Lee is running full tilt 24/7 right now and it really is only a 30 min job if you go SUPER slow. I'd bet you don't need the sizing die though, if you haven't slugged your bore you should take this time to do that. I have 2 1911s that both have a .452 groove and my Lee mold drops same as yours so I don't size and they shoot fine. If you don't want to slug I'd load a dummy to make sure it chambers ok with a .454 boolit first then back your standard load off by 5% and load a few magazines worth and see what your firearm tells you. Good luck and let us know what you do.

[dromia]

Send it back why tolerate poor products from a company that is notoriously cavalier with its quality, tolerances and specifications.

If I bought a .452" die then that is what I'd expect to get, if i got a .450" then I've been sold the wrong product. Unfortunately Lee is going like many post modern companies and applying the Ikea method of quality control, get the customer to do it.

[P.K.]

I'm going to have to send the one I just got back....similar issue with a .452-200SWC. Pushes through at .449-.450.

[fordfan]

thank you gentlemen for your replies and advise I will be calling Lee today

[44man]

thank you gentlemen for your replies and advise I will be calling Lee today
Might be the alloy too. Most will spring back a little.
Lee dies are so easy to lap that I bought a bunch for the .44 and in minutes I have from .430 in steps to .434"

[metho]

I would just get some sand paper and a doll rod and open it up some more. I had to do this with my 356 die that was sizing to 354.

[Recluse]

Send it back why tolerate poor products from a company that is notoriously cavalier with its quality, tolerances and specifications.

+1,000,000

That is THE BEST description I've heard of Lee ever since the first anointment of Obama and the subsequent surge of purchasing began occurring--


a company that is notoriously cavalier with its quality, tolerances and specifications.

After the debacle I went through on the vaunted Classic Cast single stage press--which now finally works how it was supposed to--I've come to the conclusion that if the only place I can get a product is from Lee, then I don't really need it.

Funny thing is that I have some really old Lee stuff that still continues to function and work flawlessly. I'm talking about stuff that is over two decades old and older. It's the new junk from the past few years that has me walking away from them.

:coffee:

[MT Chambers]

The sizing specs on Lee dies is just an approximation, anywhere between .449" and .454" fits within their specs for a .452' sizer. In the industry, it's called the +5 to -5% rule.

[fordfan]

I would just get some sand paper and a doll rod and open it up some more. I had to do this with my 356 die that was sizing to 354.what grit of sand paper would be the best to start out with and for the final.

[DrCaveman]

Fordfan

I started a very similar post a few weeks ago. Turned out the main culprit was my calipers, so I went and got a micrometer for $25.

Reslugged the barrel, saw groove diameter of .4515". Measured the boolits run through the 452 sizer at .4515". They shot like champs, and although I have a very small amount of leading after 150-200 rds, I am pretty happy. Prob will lap it out a titch tho.

My calipers were showing .450-.450-.450 time and time again but the mic disagreed, as did the gun. When trying to load unsized, I run into a lot of chambering issues with my STI Spartan. But if I run the round through my lee FCD, the chamber probs go away. As long as my length is right.

So, three step process: 1. Slug barrel, measure with micrometer. 2. Measure sized boolits with micrometer. 3. Try dropping sized vs unsized loaded into your barrel.

While lee FCD may solve chambering probs it also may swage down your boolit more than you want. Pulling one after loading and crimping should give you the answer.

[Case Stuffer]

Sure send it back and they will take care of it. It may only take a moth or so and who knows they may even get it right but as other posted it is a simple fix. A woden dowel (undersize) with a slot cut in the end,cut and insert sandpaper and wrap around the dowel, wet - dry silicon type are what I prefer and use some WD-40 or even just water to keep the sand paper flushed out. I would use 400 grit but a lot depends on how tight the fit is, fast fat the drill is turning the lape, amount of pressure etc.. Work slow and check often , these sizers are soft and the straight sizing section is not that long.

Just received a 6 cavity Lee mold today that need about 20 minute of tweaking / tuning beside the normal cleaning process. It does not cast round and in fact it seems that all six cavities are slightly different. I could have snt it back but I can make do with it. I like the boolits and I size them anyway. Hey it cost $50 delivered to my door, I save 4 cents above alloy cost one every one I cast. Casting 500 an hour is a easy pace so 1,250 and the mold has paid for itself. I cast 500 today so already saved $20 towards the $50 break even point.

[Cane_man]

to resize the lee can't you just put some polishing compound on the bullets and push them through one after another until you get the size you want?

[Captain_Howdy]

LOL this thread is so funny...this is why Lee continues to sell garbage to its customers...because instead of calling them out to make it right you take out your sandpaper and try to fix the problem yourself.

One things for sure, you have to hand it to Lee's marketing staff...they have hit the nail on the head with the majority of their customer base. Threads like this seem to prove it.

a company that is notoriously cavalier with its quality, tolerances and specifications

they would go broke if they were making airplane parts...

[Plinkster]

It's faster for me to buy a half finished piece of equipment and finish it to exact specs myself. Besides not everyone conducts their hobbies in the same manner. Also I imagine few buyers expect top tier product when buying Lee, if they did well I guess they got an inexpensive education didn't they? Sometimes it's about the journey...

[Case Stuffer]

Capt. no offense meant, really but if one want to takethe very simple High Road then just purchase factory ammo or high quality / custom reloads.

Call /text Fed. Rem. CCI and tell them you want 1000 rounds of 9MM 125gr. lead truncated flat nose Bn 18 , lubed with and loaded into cases with ??? powder and quanity.

First wooden houses were made by hard labor using simple hand tools ,some called them log cabins, next came slabbed saw mill planks houses,then planned / finished lumber and thus mankind advanced to the point that most could not ax down a sapling to make a simple lean shelter much less a cabin.





These days it isnext to impossible to even get cast boolits sized to anything other than staandards or even to get a c9mmeical caster / reloader to sell you cast but unsized boolits ,even ones they produce 30K a day .


For most 9MM pistold one has to cast or find a caster who has a good generic 9MM / .38 Super bootlit and order ones sized for .38Super (.357 -.358) as the 9s are sized .355-.356.

[detox]

I purposfully buy a LEE sizer undersize then hone it larger using 600 grit sandpaper and wooden dowel. Wrap paper tape around dowel then wrap sandpaper around that until you get a slightly snug fit inside die, then chuck in drill and hone. Work hone in and out for uniformity. Work slow and size bullets until you get size you are looking for. After polishing, sizer will be better than new with smoother higher polished surface.

Wheel weight lead will spring back more than 20/1 lead. So if you are trying to size a bullet to .452 using an actuall .452 sizer, bullets will come out larger .4525-.453" using WW lead.

[Cane_man]

you buy Lee to save $$$ and i think most understand you may have to use some ingenuity and time to make it work properly, but that is part of the fun and challenge of it all

[Recluse]

Also I imagine few buyers expect top tier product when buying Lee, if they did well I guess they got an inexpensive education didn't they?

I'm trying to figure out why it's somehow wrong with Lee and Lee only to purchase a piece of equipment like a sizer that says .452, but in reality sizes the boolit down much smaller (or, worse, is too large and doesn't touch the boolit at all) and actually expect it to do what Lee advertises it to do?

Anytime Dillon has a hiccup, the Lee folks are johnny on the spot with the "Well, what's the matter with Big Blue" attitudes. Likewise when someone compliments RCBS service, so many of the Lee folks respond with "What? You needed to send something back to RCBS? Why shut my mouth!"

I've been doing this reloading and handloading thing now for over forty years and for close to the last twenty of them, I've been a pretty loyal customer and defender of Lee Precision.

But since the "panic" boom of 2008 after the fraud was elected, I've seen ALL major reloading manufacturers struggling to keep up with demand, but I've only seen one major manufacturer whose quality-control took a steady downward path, and that would be Lee.

So long as customers not only let them get away with it, but DEFEND them for their cheap and sloppy ways, there is absolutely zero reason for them to improve a damned thing.

I just don't think it unreasonable to order a piece of equipment and have it do exactly what it says it will do without having to first refinish it, re-bore it, re-size it, polish it, etc etc.


Capt. no offense meant, really but if one want to takethe very simple High Road then just purchase factory ammo or high quality / custom reloads.

Again, why are we excusing a major manufacturer whose seemingly lowest priority is quality control? Are you saying that since buying Lee sizers is a **** shoot, we should just give up reloading and go back to buying factory ammo?

Not me.

We have several machinists here at CB who somehow manage to make push-through sizers right down to the thousandth, or even ten-thousandth of an inch their customers want--and this is with the lathes they have in their garage or shop. But somehow a major manufacturer can't program their zillion dollar equipment to do the same and then even have a QC person check to ensure the sizers are being produced to standard and spec?

As far as the factory ammo? I've got thousands of rounds of factory ammo that was issued to me during my LE days, and not one batch of it can shoot as good as my handloads, be they cast or jacketed.

Lee manufactures ONLY reloading equipment. They don't make ammo, they don't make holsters or optics or slings or cases or rests or anything else. They only make reloading equipment.

Why is it too much to expect from them equipment in the specifications they say they are supposed to be?

:coffee:

[WaywardSon]

I have several Lee sizing dies as well as some of their other equipment. I also own RCBS, Lyman and products from other manufacturers. There is a reason Lee is less expensive.

[flyingstick]

.454 is what I size my boolits to for the 45 acp. Outside of one bullet mould from Rapine, all my moulds are from lee. As is my presses, dies, sizers and everything else. I just take into consideration I probably will have to beagle or lap out one when i buy it. But I know that up front.
$ 30 for a lee vs. $120 + handles for something else? Casting for me is making something work...It's why I do it. Try the .454's they just might shoot great dropped....
Don

[Captain_Howdy]

Capt. no offense meant, really but if one want to takethe very simple High Road then just purchase factory ammo or high quality / custom reloads.

Call /text Fed. Rem. CCI and tell them you want 1000 rounds of 9MM 125gr. lead truncated flat nose Bn 18 , lubed with and loaded into cases with ??? powder and quanity.

First wooden houses were made by hard labor using simple hand tools ,some called them log cabins, next came slabbed saw mill planks houses,then planned / finished lumber and thus mankind advanced to the point that most could not ax down a sapling to make a simple lean shelter much less a cabin.





These days it isnext to impossible to even get cast boolits sized to anything other than staandards or even to get a c9mmeical caster / reloader to sell you cast but unsized boolits ,even ones they produce 30K a day .


For most 9MM pistold one has to cast or find a caster who has a good generic 9MM / .38 Super bootlit and order ones sized for .38Super (.357 -.358) as the 9s are sized .355-.356.

No offense taken. Simply put I expect to get what I pay for. If you go to a restaraunt and order a steak that is what you want to see on the plate when it comes to the table, if the waitress brings out a balogna sammich I bet you would have her take it back. My problem is this, the manufacturer advertises a product to do a certain thing, and that product is a precision tool no less, I expect the tool to be what he says it is, regardless of what I pay for it. And if it isn't I expect for him to make it right.

The problem with people allowing things like this to happen and go unchecked is this: the manufacturer never gets any complaints and continues to sell out of spec tools. It gets worse and worse and then everyone starts getting junk parts.

To take the 'high road' as you say is best by keeping everyone honest and do the right thing, which is to allow the manufacturer to make it right and get his out of spec tools out of the system. This benefits everyone from the manufacturer to the seller to the end user.

To keep an out of spec tool and 'making it' work is actually doing everyone a misjustice, especially the manufacturer...well, that is an honest manufacturer.

In reality it is your tool. Do with it what you wish. I am an aircraft mechanic and nothing in the world annoys me worse than out of spec tools and parts.

As far as your comments about the size cast bullets are concerned, this is the very reason we buy tools like molds and sizers. So we can have what we want. It's hard to get what you want when folks are selling garbage tools. I cast for reasons of independance, hobby, and because I want to. I buy tools because I need them to complete my mission. Any tool that doesnt do what it is supposed to do is mere garbage. Simple. If I have to make it work when I buy it new? That don't fly.

No offense.

a company that is notoriously cavalier with its quality, tolerances and specifications