How to make a spark with lead boolits?

[DrCaveman]

When pulling boolits from loads deemed unworthy or questionable, I have only bothered to segregate and save the powder when I was dumping 10+ grains or so, with runs of 10 or more boolits or so. For lighter loads or simply pulling a handful of boolits, the unused powder goes into a dedicated Tupperware tub. Not worth my trouble to go really slow and clean the dish each boolit to prevent cross contamination.

I have been keeping my empty powder tubs as well.

Apologies now if this discussion is dangerous, flag or pull if needed.

I have tried once dumping an ounce or two of the mix into an empty tub, putting the lid on real tight, placing it out about 100 yds, and hoped to see all the terrible results that mixing powder in my loads would lead to. No dice, no nothing other than a powder tub with a few holes in it.

Then I remembered the wonderful attributes of gasoline. Figured a small splash, and shaking up (a different tub) would be better. Still nothing.

I'm lacking a spark to get things going. Since I am getting ready to pull about 50 rounds of light 38s that I stupidly seated the primer out too far (no I don't want to try seating them deeper, the load sucked anyway) and also about 20 rounds of HOT 7.62x39 (from which I may keep the powder) my powder casserole is ready for some eating.

Any ideas how to make these empty powder tubs (with a little go-juice included) into nice 'reactive' targets? I think I just need a little spark, but I ain't about to line the tub with iron...not sure if my lead boolit would make that spark anyway.

Again, sorry if this is inappropriate, and maybe there is a better sub forum for this question.

[Geppetto]

I think it would be pretty tough to get a spark of any kind off a cast boolit. If you're a really good shot maybe you can hit a 209 primer to ignite your target. I can't think of anything that wouldn't be pretty convoluted and sketchy at best. Probably it would be a better plan to spread the powder out over the lawn and then go to the store and buy yourself a couple pounds of tannerite.

[kir_kenix]

I found a bunch of cans of powder at my grandfathers place with tape over the caps and "DO NOT USE! MIXED POWDER!!!" written on them. I messed around with getting them to go boom. Took alot of work, and wasn't worth it at all. Instead of going KA-FREAKING-BOOOM, it just put out a jet of flame. Super lame.

The advice given by Geppetto is sound. Tannerite is easy to ignite, and pretty darn cheap if you buy a decent sized container and seperate them into smaller ones (I use chew cans...Griz Wintergreen fine cut seems to work the best for some reason...lol).

[DrCaveman]

Good thing tannerite is made about 45 min away from me. The makers are usually at the gun shows. I should stock up.

My thinking is that: just like a cartridge, the powder needs to burn in a confined space in order to exert the proper pressure for the task at hand. Since in this case, I am not trying to propel a 150 grain projectile at 2500 fps, the need for a robust, tightly sealed container, with one weak point (the case mouth holding a boolit relatively lightly in place) for the gas to escape after critical pressure is reached, is reduced.

But in order for anything flashy or boomy to occur, there needs to be a rise in pressure then subsequent release of that pressure. My guess is it would be the lid popping off but the tub may also split along a seam. I suppose the boolit entry hole will not help my efforts...leaky.

Hmm maybe this is going nowhere but perhaps someone with the right kind of training can offer ideas.

Damn, this ice is probably getting thinner as I type...

[newton]

Smokeless powder needs pressure to ignite reliably. This is one reason to have a good hold on the boolits in a cartridge because if the primer pushes the boolit out before the powder ignites then sometimes it won't ignite.

Lead ain't going to spark. Gasoline will ignite with a spark, but you would have to have a flame to ignite a tub of powder.

Your kind of wasting your time, in my opinion, it's a lot more trouble than it's worth. Best bet is the gas mix, a whole bunch of strike anywhere matches in a bundle, and aim straight.

[Bigslug]

Zippo cigarette lighter flint inserted into the cavity of a .22 hollowpoint.

You're welcome.:mrgreen:

[DLCTEX]

I don't know about gunpowder, but an old friend had a case of dynamite once that began to sweat so he decided to blow it up. He put the wooden box 100 yds away and shot it with a 243 several times with no effect. He then put it in a metal can with a lid (used to get grease in 5 gal. metal buckets)and when he shot it again he blew the windows out of his house on that side from 200 yds. away.

I don't think the dynamite blew due to a spark from the metal can, but rather from the contained concussion of the bullets impact. I once shot a Bullfrog sitting in an overturned gallon can. It was DRT and there was not a mark on him. The concussion from the bullet striking the mud in the can killed him.

[Cadillo]

When I was in the basic academy at FLETC/Glynco, we would shoot steel plates at night with Winchester Silvertips. They would throw off a white flash when they hit a steel plate, which confirmed the hits. I don't know what the tips were made of, but they looked to be magnesium or aluminum. The current Silvertips may or may not react the same.

[cbrick]

While starting a fire may be fun to play with I think a far better disposal would be to sprinkle it on the lawn or flower beds. It is great fertilizer.

Rick

[Wayne Smith]

Great high nitrogen fertilizer. Don't bother putting it on your root crops!

[Tatume]

I don't know about gunpowder, but an old friend had a case of dynamite once that began to sweat so he decided to blow it up. He put the wooden box 100 yds away and shot it with a 243 several times with no effect. He then put it in a metal can with a lid (used to get grease in 5 gal. metal buckets)and when he shot it again he blew the windows out of his house on that side from 200 yds. away.

I like dynamite stories! When I was about 12 years old my Uncle Junior told me to come with him. He had a box under his arm. Turns out the box was a half case of dynamite that was old and sweating. He had me dig a hole under the old tobacco barn, saying it was time to bring the old structure down. Now, that Appalachian barn was built of logs on a stacked-stone foundation, and had been there for a couple of hundred years. After Uncle Junior wired the blasting cap and unrolled the wire, he gave me his flashlight and told me to take a battery out and touch the wires to it. When I was ready, we hid behind a split-rail fence and I touched it off. It rained stones and dirt for what seemed five minutes, and when the dust cleared the tobacco barn was still standing, with a big crater under one side of the foundation.

I'm sixty years old now, and my brother lives on the farm. He has converted the tobacco barn into a garage. It's as sound as ever.

Take care, Tom

[2manygunz]

I'll weigh in with the opinion to go with the lawn fertilizer/tannerite plan. Some things just don't work well when re-purposed.
Now that I think about it, that explains the one really lush area of grass in the back yard. I forgot that I dumped the old mixed powder there.

[paul h]

Just a reminder that smokeless powder is a propellent, not an explosive. While it is a fast burning fuel, it does not burn fast enough to go boom.

I would imagine (note don't try this at home, theory only) that if you ground smokeless powder into a very fine dust it would burn faster and may be capable of a deflagration or detonation. That said playing with energetic and reactive chemicals is a good way to get burned, maimed and sometimes killed.

Might be interesting to mix some powder with tannerite to see if it improves the reaction.

[fourarmed]

I once heard Bob Hodgdon telling stories about his youth. Very hair-raising, as his house was always full of gunpowder. He said a Prince Albert can full of Bullseye could be set off with a high velocity jacketed bullet.

[FLHTC]

My buddies and i did things similar as kids. We used a lit candle behind a gallon pickle jar of gasoline and home made black. Potassium nitrate that could be bought along with sulfer flour at the drug store. Crushed some Kingsford charcoal and after the correct amount of attention, we had a pretty cool display. We walked off about 100 yards and shot it with 22 rimfires. Not sure which of the two made more flame but it was a pretty big mushroom of flame. And we never grew up shooting people or leading a life of crime, we just had fun. We learned early on to respect the power of gunpowder but our parents would have blistered our asses if they knew.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

Put the powder on top of tannerite and shoot it.

[MtGun44]

Silvertips used to have aluminum jackets, no idea if still true. Those flashes
were part of the aluminum burning.

Bill

[dakotashooter2]

You have been HOLLYWOODED..................... Only in the movies do bullets produced a spark with any regularity...................

It is possible a high velocity bullet could do it. I suspect it would involve similar principles and conditions required to produce a dust explosion..............

[beagle]

In VN, we got a stoppage on the 20mm system on one of our Cobras. When we cleared it, one of the 20mm HEI cases had a 7.62mm hole in it and we found the bullet from an AK in the fiberglass of the ammunition container. No powder ignition in the case and this was with a FMJ bullet. Pretty hard to ignite smokeless./beagle

[dsol]

Somebody has been reading Unintended Consequences I see. :)

Great book!



Zippo cigarette lighter flint inserted into the cavity of a .22 hollowpoint.

You're welcome.:mrgreen:

[357maximum]

I made a spark with a standard 22LR one time and one time only. I was shooting at a squirrel on the ground back in the woods and happened to hit the "knot" on an old rusty barbed wire fence on the way there. I saw a decent spark and missed the squirrel, but he gave me a second chance and I redeemed my inattention on the second poke. I guess the rust sliding by the rust made the spark. I would not have believed it had I not been there.

Tannerite targets are alot more fun when the shooter does not know they are shooting at tannerite btw. :lol: They are awfully hard on the target board when you tape them to the backside behind the bullseye though. :mrgreen:

[longbow]

While I would not have believed it if I had not seen this in a documentary, small arms rifle fire did cause gasoline containers to burst into flames, also fuel tanks of helicopters and aircraft.

Apparently there is (or can be under the right circumstances) enough heat generated at impact to ignite the vapourized/vapourizing fuel. This would be with copper jacket bullets though not lead boolits.

Certainly large caliber armour piercing rounds will do it but I did not think small arms fire would.

This also requires a metal container so I think your plastic container with a soup of gasoline and smokeless powder will need some help to ignite.

I was unfamiliar with tannerite so looked it up. Now there is something that would "initiate" your burn! Yes, shooting the tannerite with the container on top should produce the results you are looking for. I think i want some tannerite! I am betting "not available in Canada" though.

Longbow

[357maximum]

I have heard that if you can lay your hands on some of them aluminum oxygen breathing tanks that are full or mostly so it can be quite lively when struck with a med/high velocity round.


Recommended rules:

1. Make sure you are at least 100 yards away from the tank......200 would be better.
2. Make sure it has rained recently as oxygen makes a pretty good oxidizer for aluminum apparently and some burning shrapnel can/will happen....you might even catch your inlaws woods on fire. [smilie=1:
3. Do this only in a very isolated area.
4.DO NOT DO THIS AT ALL........just don't do it, proably best if you imagine a big bellerous boom that can be felt from a long ways off and may shake windows and upset neighbors down the valley.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, guys, Well, I guess I'll tell how I made a lead bullet spark. I had made a .22 mould up for casting heel-base bullets for my rimfire re-loads. Chucked one up in bench lathe collet & drilled from nose end as deep as I dared & still left enough metal in base. drilled for a press-fit on a #4 lead shot. Cavity filled with powder from those round plastic toy caps+4FG black & shot pressed 1/2 of dia. in nose. I used to shoot these into 2X4 wood blocks..first block always penetrated..2nd one about 1/2 way..splitting open revealed a blackened hole with tiny lead splinters sticking in wood. Made a nice flash when shot against rock at night! I guess you could do same with loaded fact. round.. It's a wonder I still have all my fingers!

[Ranger185]

My buddies and i did things similar as kids. We used a lit candle behind a gallon pickle jar of gasoline and home made black. Potassium nitrate that could be bought along with sulfer flour at the drug store. Crushed some Kingsford charcoal and after the correct amount of attention, we had a pretty cool display. We walked off about 100 yards and shot it with 22 rimfires. Not sure which of the two made more flame but it was a pretty big mushroom of flame. And we never grew up shooting people or leading a life of crime, we just had fun. We learned early on to respect the power of gunpowder but our parents would have blistered our asses if they knew.

I loved this post brought back so many memories of growing up in the NC mountains. I seriously do not know how we survived but I wouldn't trade it for the world. Blasting caps and black powder that will get your a$$ beat I guarantee it take it from experience. People think my Harley is dangerous they have no idea such a nanny world it has become.....

[Ranger185]

Recommended rules:

1. Make sure you are at least 100 yards away from the tank......200 would be better.
2. Make sure it has rained recently as oxygen makes a pretty good oxidizer for aluminum apparently and some burning shrapnel can/will happen....you might even catch your inlaws woods on fire. [smilie=1:
3. Do this only in a very isolated area.
4.DO NOT DO THIS AT ALL........just don't do it, proably best if you imagine a big bellerous boom that can be felt from a long ways off and may shake windows and upset neighbors down the valley.

Thanks guys it has been a rough week and I haven't laughed so hard in a long time...not just kids I heard a few weeks ago a 52 year old guy set his inlaws woods on fire shooting tracers.....[smilie=1:

[mdi]

About the only "kaboom" I was able to create was from "Railroad Torpedos". A friend worked for a railroad and would bring home these torpedos; a waxy coated, reddish cube about the size and shape of a charcoal brickette. They had soft metal tabs (lead?) for attaching them to a rail/track. When a locomotive ran over them, they would explode, loudly. I believe the pattern of the torpedos on the tracks signaled the engineer of conditions ahead (danger). We would shoot them with our .22 for a good loud bang, and being the genius I am I attached one to a beer bottle half filled with Bullseye. Good loud bang and a huge puff of white smoke! But, seems some LA County sheriffs were driving around the hills, out of uniform/undercover, looking for ??? and we got rousted. They kept us there for about 45 min., checking out guns and other supplies, but we had shot the last torpedo and only had 22 lr shells, so they let us go...

[grouch]

I'd try putting a bunch of wooden match heads in with the powder, Maybe they would ignite the whole mess when shot.
Grouch

[rbuck351]

Even if you can get it ignited, it isn't going to give an earth shattering KaBoom without being contained in a very strong container. Tupperware won't do it.

[archmaker]

Look into a Creamora - use the powder in the creamer to help ignite it. I use the powder for a fuse (sprinkle on a piece of masking tape like making a cigarette and fold).

[David2011]

One day I found an unfired .243 round at the range, out by the 100 yard targets. I stuck it in an existing bullet hole in the target stand, bullet first and went back to teh firing line to shoot it. It was a little crooked in the hole and I ended up I hitting the side of the case instead of the primer. I could see that the powder had gone into the pipe target stand and was burning nicely. Nothing spectacular; just some burning smokeless powder. The case was separated about 1-1/4" from the head after a 6.5mm bullet went through it. I never did find the .243 bullet or shoulder of the case.

David