Let's see your best .30 PB groups

[Marlin Junky]

I'm just getting into shooting plain base boolits from my '06 and was wondering what kind of results others are obtaining.

So far, my results aren't anything to write home about (< 2MOA) but I don't see why my '06 shouldn't do as well as .22 match ammo if I can find the right combination. I'm using 4759 and alloys just about the same hardness as Lyman #2 or a bit softer. I don't want to use alloys much softer due to the likelihood of deformation in the loading process. I've got a mold cut by MM that casts in the 195-200 grain range (depending on casting temp and alloy) but am contemplating a 180 grain design to be cut by Accurate. The MM castings have a 0.2" meplat, 0.43" ogive, 0.16" leading band (to fill the throat), 3 lube grooves of approx. equal length and a 0.12 or 0.13 (IIRC) long base. The overall length of the boolits are 1.08". Perhaps I'll post a pic of the boolits if I get a round-to-it.

So far, the 180 grain design on the drawing board has two lube grooves and a .14" long base which I'm thinking about making even longer (perhaps .15 or .16). It's also got a .190 meplat and a secant ogive which should move the CG toward the base a bit farther.

MJ

[HARRYMPOPE]

i have wallet groups under 3/4" at 100 yards.But no target full of them.At 50 yards i get much smaller MOA groups them when i go to 100 and 200.I went though PB 20 molds and none really made it a MOA gun.If you average about 1.5-1.75 MOA from 100 to 200 i believe that is pretty good.

[Blanket]

Maybe your rifle can't shoot as well as your load

[Marlin Junky]

i have wallet groups under 3/4" at 100 yards.But no target full of them.At 50 yards i get much smaller MOA groups them when i go to 100 and 200.I went though PB 20 molds and none really made it a MOA gun.If you average about 1.5-1.75 MOA from 100 to 200 i believe that is pretty good.

Are you talkin' '06?

What molds?

MJ

[Ben]

I've been enjoying my Modern Bond , 30 cal., 190 gr. Spire plain base mold that I bought from HARRYMPOPE (George ) recently.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/010_zps42b9b38e.jpg


I've shot some pretty impressive groups ( for plain based bullets ) at 50 yards.

Here's 20 rounds fired at 50 yards :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0687.jpg

Today, I thought that it was time to move on out to 100 yards and do more testing with this bullet and load that shot so well at 50 yds.

I thought that the bullet performed well at 100 yards , ( see target below ) considering it is a plain based bullet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0800.jpg

[Marlin Junky]

Ben,

No groups yet with a somewhat slower burning powder; e.g., 4759, 5744 or 4227?

Can I assume you're shooting Ben's Red on that boolit and if so, how many grains of lube? Looks like that boolit holds about 1/2 grain or less of lube.

MJ

[pipehand]

Ben, that's some good shooting. How did you arrive at the charge of International? Hodgdon's hasn't listed loads with it for metallic anything since 2006. I bought a jug of it thinking it was Universal, before I got back into loading for my shotguns. Did find some Cowboy action data for that powder and lead boolits in 38 special, 44 mag and 45LC.

I'm sure the charge of International you're using is safe, I was just curious as to why that powder. Have a lot on hand?

[HARRYMPOPE]

"What molds?"

A Modern Bond like i sold Ben.The Lyman Ideal 308403 (sometimes it shot)A couple of weird SAECO obsolete numbers.Also the Ideal 308241 RN I went though about 20 molds and 10 powders over a three year period.I never found a magic mold or powder and eventually stuck to 7-8g of Bussyeye or 8-9g of Unique.i aimed for 1100-1200 fps.At times i averaged close to MOA for a few groups but long haul was closer to 1.5-1.75 with good loads.I shot mostly 10 shot strings as it what i have to do in the matches i was using them in.

"Are you talkin' '06?"

I shot them primarily in a Win p-17 with HS barrel-also a 1903 2 groove and a 1903A3 with 4 Groove HS barrel.
I tried them as well in a 670 Winchester that shot just like the military one accuracy wise. I did get it to shoot some of the smaller dimensioned PB's that wouldn't shoot in the military rifles larger throats.The little 140g SAECO #630 really shined in that one.

[DeanWinchester]

Using an Accurate 31-180E sized .311 and lubed with Bens Red in my '94 winchester .30WCF I'm getting less than 2 inches at fifty yards using 10.0g of Unique. Might be better if I had a scope.

I'm going to try Trail Boss soon and see what happens.

[Ben]

Ben,

No groups yet with a somewhat slower burning powder; e.g., 4759, 5744 or 4227?

Can I assume you're shooting Ben's Red on that boolit and if so, how many grains of lube? Looks like that boolit holds about 1/2 grain or less of lube.

MJ

MJ,

Yes, Ben's Red, I've never weighed an " as cast " and compared it to a lubed one ? ? ?

[Ben]

Ben, that's some good shooting. How did you arrive at the charge of International? Hodgdon's hasn't listed loads with it for metallic anything since 2006. I bought a jug of it thinking it was Universal, before I got back into loading for my shotguns. Did find some Cowboy action data for that powder and lead boolits in 38 special, 44 mag and 45LC.

I'm sure the charge of International you're using is safe, I was just curious as to why that powder. Have a lot on hand?

I looked at a burn rate chart. Drew some quick ( but safe and conservative ) " guesstimations " by comparing Int. Clays to Unique and began loading.
If I was to " err " it would be on the low end and the conservative side of things.

My load of 7.8 grs. of International Clays with the 190 gr. Modern Bond shows no signs of any excess pressure. I've also shot 8.0, 8.5 and 9.0 of International Clays with no problems in my rifles ( 30-06 Springfields ).

As to " WHY " on that particular powder.....I'd read that it was a " New Clean Technology " powder. I thought , Ummm, maybe I need to try some of this stuff behind a .30 cal. plain base bullet in my 06'.

I don't use ANY ball powder with my .30 cal. cast plain base bullet loads. Int. Clays is a flake powder.

I don't regret the time and efforts that I spent in the experimentation. I've shot MANY groups like you see above with International Clays in the 06'.

Ben

[Marlin Junky]

I've shot MANY groups like you see above with International Clays in the 06'.

Ben

I'd still like to see you shoot 15 grains of 4759 behind that boolit. Velocity should be in the 1200-1300 fps neighborhood and it wouldn't surprise me at all if your 100 yards groups are tightened up somewhat.

MJ

[Ben]

MJ,

I have 4759.

So...., I'll use your load suggestions and get back soon with the results.

Ben

[pipehand]

Went out this morning to do some group shooting with plainbased boolits in my .308. I had hopes that my groups would look like Ben's. They sure did- if Ben was shooting at 200 yards. I, however was shooting at 50.

Groups with a gaschecked RCBS 30-150 FN were half the size of the plainbased ones, and the rifle doesn't like that boolit near as much as the 30-165 SIL boolit. I had loaded up the FN's because it was adequately accurate, and i wanted a flatnose to shoot a deer with this past season. I'm hoping that the MiHec 308 Hunting Boolit will be as accurate as the Silhouette, but with a fn or hp. Been waiting for that one for 11 months now.

The PB boolit I used was an old RCBS 30-180-SP, with the GC shank milled off. It is not a bore rider, but a kind of Louverin with wider bands and a funky scraper groove up front. Was using 6.5 grains of Red Dot for a propellant.

My groups at 50 yards, using a bolt action, scoped (3x9 set on 9) bolt action rifle were about the same size or larger than the groups I get with a ghost ring sighted Guide gun using plain based 420 grain boolits at 100 yards.

Gonna have to work at it with the 30 cal PB's.

[DeanWinchester]

Just got back from the range I fired 50 rounds of 308 Winchester from my Ishapore using an Accurate 31-235A plain base over 13.0g of Trail Boss which gave me just under 4 inches for all 50 rounds. This was the first time out with this one so not bad. I think a different powder with a bit more velocity will improve things. The bullet is certainly NOT stable as evident from the oblong holes.
The 1/12 twist may not be ideal for this bullet as far as a target load but This bullet is 1.335" long. If I can keep things grouping that good (better hopefully) it would be devastating on a deer.

[longbow]

Well, I am not in the same league as most of the posters so far but I have managed to work groups sizes down to just over an inch at 50 yards with my scoped No. 5 Lee Enfield (.303 of course).

The boolits is a home made 185 gr. "slick" Design at 0.305" nose/bore rider and 0.313" bearing surface. I knurl that up to 0.316" then "hot tumble lube".

The load is 18 grs. IMR4227 then the case filled to half way up the neck with COW.

The groups I just got are better than i have been getting with my NOE 316299 gas checked and sized to 0.315" over 22 grs. IMR4227 (no filler). So, now I have to load some of each with varying powder charges to see if the home made boolit groups are repeatable and which boolit shoots best.

For cast boolit loads I am generally using IMR4227 or Unique.

Longbow

[Marlin Junky]

MJ,

I have 4759.

So...., I'll use your load suggestions and get back soon with the results.

Ben

Sounds good... use an alloy in the BHN 13-15 range though.

MJ

[DrCaveman]

How about 30-30 and unique, y'all?

I'm trying to dial in a med-light load using lee 150 gr flat nose, and around 8 gr unique. Maybe more or less depending on what I hear here.

Anybody have any stellar results to show? Non-GC of course, as per OP.

Just want to set my expectations realistically.

[DeanWinchester]

How about 30-30 and unique, y'all?

I'm trying to dial in a med-light load using lee 150 gr flat nose, and around 8 gr unique. Maybe more or less depending on what I hear here.

Anybody have any stellar results to show? Non-GC of course, as per OP.

Just want to set my expectations realistically.

Heck yeah!
I use an Accurate 31-180E Plain base sized .311, lubed w/Bens Red over about 9.5g (I'd have to check my notebook). It shoots minute of clay pigeon at 50 & 100 yards all day. If I miss, it's my fault every time. Zero leading, very easy on my bum shoulder. It's the perfect load for a '94 in my opinion.

[DrCaveman]

Ok dean, good sounding load. I may have to get that mold, it looks like a hard hitter. No probs with feeding despite that big ol' nose? Looks like one could crimp at a variety of locations though so it should work.

Now, what about boolits designed for gas checks, but you leave the checks off? I dunno, the more I am looking, it seems that people really don't do this much, or at least dont talk about it. I know that so far, leaving off the GCs on boolits designed that way has not given me good results. At least, putting the GC back on has improved loads tremendously every time.

Maybe something to do with this 'trailing edge failure' concept. Should I stop wasting my time with the non-GC'd GC boolits?

Or, if you have had success with this setup, show us your groups!

[45 2.1]

Maybe your rifle can't shoot as well as your load

I believe you have that reversed......... The load usually doesn't do the rifle any justice (the nutt behind the butt is in that also).

[popper]

Just starting with 336 scoped x9 30-30 but got 1.5" @ 50 yds with 14 gr 2400 RD170311 (182gr) no filler, powder coated,~50/50 Pb/COWW AC w/sulfur. Shot about the same group as 15 gr 2400 GC version of the RD and 170 gr corelok/4895. Actually it's about the same as that CB over a full load of LeverE powder. Unique wasn't as good. A better shooter on a calm day should get better groups.

[Marlin Junky]

Ben, have you shot the 15 grains of 4759 yet?

Thanks,
MJ