Homemade handi barrels?

[richbug]

Anybody done their own homemade H&R handi barrels? I am planning on doing a 357 and a 40-30 straight.

I thought I would do a simple spring pushed extractor rather than copying the H&R ejector, Making the locking block out of a piece of 5/8" square.

[B R Shooter]

Many moons ago, a friend bought the lug and parts for Contender barrels. He had a 21" barrel machined down to a multi-flat, and the lug welded to the barrel. A butt stock was available from Fagen. It all worked quite well, and this was long before Thompson Center came out with their own long barrels. If you can machine the lug properly, it can be done I would think.

[MBTcustom]

Someday, I would like to learn how to weld on that lug, but to be honest, I'm a little scared of doing so. when the rifle is fired the pressure tries to make the barrel go forward, and the action go back. The two try to get away from eachother, and the only thing that reduces the force applied to the boolit, being applied with equal square inches to the bolt face, is the grip that the case has on the walls of the chamber, and that can be effected by a host of factors. To be on the safe side, I assume that the action face is going to have to take all the pressure that the cartridge generates. The only thing that is keeping the barrel from becoming a projectile itself, and landing 10 feet in front of the bench, is the weld on that lug. So, I want to treat it with respect.
One option that some fellers have explored, is to stub the barrel, but this creates situation where you have less solid material surrounding the chamber, so only small diameter cartridges can be considered "safe" with this method.
I am working on a custom rifle for a client right now that is based on a handi rifle. It is going to need a custom barrel, so I am going to send it out to an older and wiser gunsmith who has a guy that will cut the lug off the original barrel, and weld it on to the new one, but even he (the gunsmith) said he wouldn't attempt to do that weld himself. It has to be done by a certified welder, who knows what he is doing, otherwise it could get dangerous! Also, it needs to be done with a TIG welder so that the heat is kept as localized as possible to reduce (not eliminate) the warp it will have on the barrel.
Also, the welding procedure will mess with the hardness/tensile strength of the barrel steel, so it may need to be normalized afterwards.

That's the way I see it, but I might be being paranoid?
I know that even a crummy wire welder will give pretty darn strong joints. I just don't like hanging my reputation on a weld when I'm not a welder.

[richbug]

That's the way I see it, but I might be being paranoid?
I know that even a crummy wire welder will give pretty darn strong joints. I just don't like hanging my reputation on a weld when I'm not a welder.

So you don't think some 11018 run with a Lincoln Idealarc is a good idea, using heat control paste, and taking care not to heat up the barrel any more than needed(small short welds, wait to cool)? A 1.125" 357 barrel has a huge amount of meat as compared to any S&W or Ruger Cylinder.

[Nobade]

Make it a stub barrel. Weld the lug to a tube, then machine the inside of it round and thread it for barrels.

-Nobade

[dragonrider]

I have made two of these for my TCR-87 one is 7.62x39, the other is .243
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/762x39%20tcr%20barrel/TcrBarrel002.jpg

Should not be too difficult to make one for a handi

[nhrifle]

Shouldn't be too bad a project. I was a welder for T/C back in the day. The Encore was brand new if that gives you an idea of when. We used a TIG welder to attach the lug and after the barrels cooled they were smacked with a huge pneumatic hammer to make sure the weld held and didn't crack. The lug was just a square block that had a vee section cast into one of the long faces. The vee was held against the barrel and would align the block with the barrel and the engineering guys had made us a wierd tilting clamp to hold it together while it was welded. I was able to do 400 to 500 in a shift, so once the machining is done, this should go pretty quickly.

[MBTcustom]

Huh. Maybe I should belly up to the bar and get 'er done! I can certainly make a lug, and I have a whole passel of junk barrels to experiment with. Might just give 'er a try.
Thanks for the info NH! That's the closest I have gotten to a real answer yet!

[nhrifle]

Goodsteel, you probly already know this, but definitely practice on some scraps first until you get the clamping down so the block doesn't shift on the barrel. Believe me, it happens easy and fast. The clamp we used had a channel support that held the barrel. The lug was slid onto the barrel and a clamp block was lowered onto the lug that was grooved to fit the lug tightly, whereby the barrel and lug were clamped together accurately. Be sure and tack weld the corners of the block securely before running a bead as the block can twist and warp. Don't ask how many times I had to run to the finishing department so they could cut the block off and grind the exterior of the barrel back to proper profile!

[MBTcustom]

I know, but many others might not, so thanks for posting. Sent you a PM.

[Nobade]

I have made two of these for my TCR-87 one is 7.62x39, the other is .243
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/762x39%20tcr%20barrel/TcrBarrel002.jpg

Should not be too difficult to make one for a handi

That's pretty slick! I hadn't thought about making one with a built in rail.

I still maintain making a stub is the way to go, so you're not welding right over the chamber. Plus changing barrels in the future is way easier.

-Nobade

[MBTcustom]

That's pretty slick! I hadn't thought about making one with a built in rail.

I still maintain making a stub is the way to go, so you're not welding right over the chamber. Plus changing barrels in the future is way easier.

-Nobade

Yeah but look at the picture. He made the lug itself big enough to accept standard size threads. Purdy slick!
Thus, no weld is necessary at all.

[tomme boy]

Your going to be running a reamer into the barrel. That will take care of what ever damage was done by welding. The only problem I see would be the metal might be a little harder. So go slower and make sure it is a sharp reamer. Once tac welded, it should only take about 20-30 sec. per side to weld. From most of the welds I have seen on the TC barrels, they are more melting the two pieces together than adding filler. NEF barrels the welds are almost completely ground off. You can't even see the welds.

[Nobade]

Yeah but look at the picture. He made the lug itself big enough to accept standard size threads. Purdy slick!
Thus, no weld is necessary at all.

I did, and I like the idea. I guess I was kind of unclear in my last post, I really was talking about two different things.

And do reply to tomme boy, yes I know you'll cut the chamber after welding. But welds still don't do anything positive to a barrel. And if I really had to weld on it, I'd rather only do so once and set it up so I could thread different barrels in.

I already set up a Handi like that recently. It had a trashed 45-70 barrel on it, so I cut that off, reamed it, and threaded it internally. Now I can put whatever barrel on it I feel like and it doesn't take long. Currently it has a 6 inch long 1:10 twist 32 H&R mag barrel, with a piece of tubing high temp soldered on to make it legal length. Why? Because I had a 6 inch chunk of barrel blank I cut off another project and wanted to see how it worked. Shoots great, BTW. I'll keep playing with it until I get bored with that and make it into something else.

If you really wanted to make an entire barrel setup with a welded lug, go ahead. It would be an interesting project and if done right would work just fine. It's just that I personally wouldn't do that because of numerous reasons I have already mentioned. But there's lots of ways to get where you want to go!

-Nobade

[Willbird]

Your going to be running a reamer into the barrel. That will take care of what ever damage was done by welding. The only problem I see would be the metal might be a little harder. So go slower and make sure it is a sharp reamer. Once tac welded, it should only take about 20-30 sec. per side to weld. From most of the welds I have seen on the TC barrels, they are more melting the two pieces together than adding filler. NEF barrels the welds are almost completely ground off. You can't even see the welds.

I have heard more than 1 person say that a TC contender barrel where the chamber is shorter than the lug is probably not one of the more accurate ones, but TC has some weird ideas about throats for pistol ctg, the aftermarkets use a rifle type throat and get a far more accurate barrel that way. They used to say the contender lug was welded on using "electron beam welding" or some such ??

Just had a look at my 500 SW handi barrel, it looks like they put a large bevel on the lug, welded it on, then machined or ground the weld and so that it blends with the barrel with no fillet radius to speak of.

Bill

[Cap'n Morgan]

Someday, I would like to learn how to weld on that lug, but to be honest, I'm a little scared of doing so. when the rifle is fired the pressure tries to make the barrel go forward, and the action go back. The two try to get away from eachother, and the only thing that reduces the force applied to the boolit, being applied with equal square inches to the bolt face, is the grip that the case has on the walls of the chamber, and that can be effected by a host of factors.

Goodsteel.

As long as we're talking straight wall cartridges, the forward pressure on the barrel is negligible. Most of the "forward" pressure is working on the bullet base alone - not the barrel. Check out Mr. Richardson's "Guerrilla Gun" which must be the most simple shotgun ever made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt3NuCbxSQQ

[Willbird]

.

Goodsteel.

As long as we're talking straight wall cartridges, the forward pressure on the barrel is negligible. Most of the "forward" pressure is working on the bullet base alone - not the barrel. Check out Mr. Richardson's "Guerrilla Gun" which must be the most simple shotgun ever made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt3NuCbxSQQ

That kind of runs against the grain to the 30 carbine TC contender barrels that seem to have stretched some frames ?? I know PO Ackley did some work to show the case wall gripping the chamber takes some load from the standing breech, but good design is still to make the action strong enough to withstand 150-200 percent of the chamber pressure applied to the sq inches of ctg head involved. Technically it is only subjected to the sq inches of area of the INSIDE of the case head, or maybe the largest dia of the case interior.

The slam fire shotgun to some degree uses what would be called "advanced ignition" where the round fires while the bolt is still in forward motion, some submachineguns use it, and the Oerlikon 20mm anti aircraft cannon uses it, the moving bolt can be lighter than a normal bolt in a blow back action because it still has inertia due to being in forward motion when the round fires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(firearms)#Advanced_Primer_Ignition_blowb ack

Due to the over strength of about any good safe action design you can totally take away the ability of the case to grip the chamber by oiling the ctg and you would not blow up the gun, I would not suggest it however.

Some of the advanced ignition guns actually use lubricated crg cases (heard about it with the Oerlikon)

[izzyjoe]

this is a very interesting thread, i have an old H&R topper jr. that i've pondered what to do with. i'm thinking a 32-20, or 30 carbine. with a low pressure cartride like those two i would'nt be afraid to weld it with an arc welder, ofcourse i'd rig up some kind of coolant pump to flow through the barrel as i welded it.

[dragonrider]

Not welded, not threaded and the rail is seperate
held on with four screws. Barrel is pressed into
the block and pinned. The pins can be seen.

[Nobade]

Aah sooo! That works too!

[leftiye]

Sooo, would probly work fine to make a clamp with an underlug on the bottom, and a groove or two on the inside, and a scope base on the top piece.

I buy up H&R shotgun barrels (and also use any SB2 barrel that I posses that I don't like/have use for), cut them off where the cylindrical portion ends, bore them out and thread them, and install new (gooder) barrels in them. I like the option of threading with a fine thread and threading the whole stub.

Eagle View Arms in Wash. State is making these barrel stubs for encores and contenders.

[leftiye]

Shouldn't be too bad a project. I was a welder for T/C back in the day. The Encore was brand new if that gives you an idea of when. We used a TIG welder to attach the lug and after the barrels cooled they were smacked with a huge pneumatic hammer to make sure the weld held and didn't crack. The lug was just a square block that had a vee section cast into one of the long faces. The vee was held against the barrel and would align the block with the barrel and the engineering guys had made us a wierd tilting clamp to hold it together while it was welded. I was able to do 400 to 500 in a shift, so once the machining is done, this should go pretty quickly.

Were any special pre heating, and slow cooling/heat soaking processes used?

[Willbird]

I'm going to have to look the handi over and see how bad it would be to machine a stub from billet, it is short enough than on a cnc mill you could stick it straight up and profile it around the outside probably.

I'm 100x the machinist that I am a welder :-).

[nanuk]

I believe Swede Nelson had a thread where he showed how he welded lugs onto barrels.

also, I have read many who have welded onto barrels, and one where the lug is held on by some screws.

I had a thought, once you have the stub threaded you could thread a barrel in, but leave a bit of the breech short, so no indexing issues come about, and you could have a switch barrel very easily.