Cardiac ablation?

[wallenba]

I have been given the option to have a cardiac ablation performed on me at the University of Michigan Medical Center. Since 2008 I have had some episodes of acute atrial fibrolation. Heart rates in the 150's accompany it. It's uncomfortable, and can lead to strokes, so I take Warfarin daily. The procedure is a potential cure, but not gauranteed. It has become a common procedure, and I'd like to hear from members here who have had it, and how they are doing after. Anyone willing to share?

[geargnasher]

Mom and stepmom both had it done. Mom got a collapsed lung from it (nerve damage from over-ablation), but eventually got over it after having half that lung out anyway due to carcinoid lymphoma detected as a course of figuring out why she couldn't breathe after the surgery.

Stepmom had it done, made zero difference.

Principle difference: Mom quit all ASPARTAME after the surgery upon reading that it can cause severe atrial fibrillation (sp?). She had actually resumed her routine of Kool-Aid and Crystal Light briefly after coming home and immediately had problems again, but they never returned since she quit the stuff completely. Stepmom pounds down 6-8 diet Sunkists a day, same as she has for years. There's enough artificial hazardous junk in that stuff to cause a variety of issues.

Look into the aspartame factor, keep an open mind about it. If you drink a lot of 'diet' drinks or consume anything in large amounts (chewing gum, for example) that are loaded with aspartame, that could be the sole cause of your problem. I've noticed it affected my heart (tachichardia episodes) after quitting cigarettes and chewing a lot of gum. Now there is only one brand of cinnamon gum that doesn't have aspartame in it, YET, and since switching the heart skipping and racing at rest has gone away. Should know within a week from stopping all intake of the nasty substance.

Gear

[dbosman]

I've only had the dubious pleasure of driving around the University of Michigan Medical Center. Plan to arrive early and get dropped off. Then plan on a wait for the driver to return. Make sure the drive had their blood pressure meds before they start looking for a place to park.
The scruffy looking guy with the "will park for food" isn't an official valet.

Oh, yeah, best wishes for a successful - pleasant - outcome.

[Stonecrusher]

I had A-Fib for 8 years after I was diagnosed, and who knows how long before. My new cardiologist thought an ablation may work for me. I had the procedure about a year and a half ago and it has made a world of difference for me. They say the longer you are out of rythym, the less likely it will take. Well mine took. I am now in rythym perhaps 99% of the time and the periods when I am not are short and barely noticeable. I no longer stay in constant cold sweat, which is great, and can work over my head with no symptoms at all. My Doc told me that they discovered a while back that most of the bad signals come from the pulmonary vein. He basically froze a ring around the inside of the vein on the other side of the valve. Sort of an insulating ring of dead cells. So even if the bad electricity is being generated, it can't get to the heart. I'm glad I did it.

[429421Cowboy]

Not to scare you away from it, but after several bouts of A-fib at work, i went to my doctor while it was happening and he caught it on echo, i went to Salt Lake Childrens where i had had a heart surgery before, and they did the catheter procedure and were unable to induce A-fib to ablate the bad circut. This was about 4 years ago, i was 16 then, and even though i was treated ok it would have been nice to have it fixed. Later they attributed it to me being over-medicated from BP meds and after a change in meds, i have had no problems. In short, exhaust all of your options first, before they do the procedure! Meds, diet-what have you.

The actual procedure was not bad at all, yeah it hurts but after a full on, ribs cracked, lung deflated, chest tube surgery a few years prior, it was not bad. In fact, i should warn you now, they will shave a spot on your leg about the size of a playing card on your leg in the groin area, then put a sticky asphalt-super glue bandage from your behind all the way to your bellybutton, you might want them to knock you out when they go to take it off the first time!

My mother went to med school there, my whole family on her side is from Detroit, so i do tend to trust doctors from there!

[wallenba]

I've only had the dubious pleasure of driving around the University of Michigan Medical Center. Plan to arrive early and get dropped off. Then plan on a wait for the driver to return. Make sure the drive had their blood pressure meds before they start looking for a place to park.
The scruffy looking guy with the "will park for food" isn't an official valet.

Oh, yeah, best wishes for a successful - pleasant - outcome.

HEHE LOL. I know what you mean! I had a consultation there last week about the procedure. I programmed my Garmin to take me there. I thought it would be easy. The address only took me to the center itself. After that I was on my own to find the correct office. That place is like a maze, compounded by the fact it was built on a hillside with multiple levels and underground parking everywhere like gopher holes. I was lucky to find it at all. I caught a glimpse of a sign that said 'cardiology'. I slipped in the parking garage there, took the elevator up, and actually ended up where I was supposed to be.

[wallenba]

I had A-Fib for 8 years after I was diagnosed, and who knows how long before. My new cardiologist thought an ablation may work for me. I had the procedure about a year and a half ago and it has made a world of difference for me. They say the longer you are out of rythym, the less likely it will take. Well mine took. I am now in rythym perhaps 99% of the time and the periods when I am not are short and barely noticeable. I no longer stay in constant cold sweat, which is great, and can work over my head with no symptoms at all. My Doc told me that they discovered a while back that most of the bad signals come from the pulmonary vein. He basically froze a ring around the inside of the vein on the other side of the valve. Sort of an insulating ring of dead cells. So even if the bad electricity is being generated, it can't get to the heart. I'm glad I did it.

I go about three months between episodes, in between, I have perfectly normal sinus rythmn. Mine is induced by my sleep apnea. The lack of oxygen when I stop breathing makes the heart beat faster. Go long enough like that, and the heart goes wacko...a-fib. I use a bi-pap device which works well, but my airway still gets blocked if I roll over onto my left side while sleeping. We don't know why that is.

[RoyEllis]

Keep in mind this was just my experience with it. 3yrs ago I went to an urgent care clinic since my Dr. couldn't see me right away, first thing I know they're putting me in an ambulance & sending me to the ER for heart attack. After a battery of tests the cardio doc tells me I have Wolfe-Parkinson-White syndrome (short circuit pathways in the heart muscle) and sets up cardiac ablation.
Long story short...they find 4 short circuits that have to be burned out, lost me on the table 3 times & a "simple 1.5hr procedure" stretches out to 7hrs in surgery (scares the he!! out of my wife, kids & grandkids). Today, I'm fine and doing much better than before the procedure. Would I have it done again? Yep, I feel it's better to die on the table where you have Dr's to pull ya back if it's at all possible than to collapse miles & minutes away from help and have absolutely no chance.
As an aside, the defib paddles they use to "jump start" you, will dang sure leave a rectangular burn on your skin. I woke up with one front & back, felt like a hellacious bad sunburn in a pair of 3"x5" spots.

[Boyscout]

Thought I had pneumonia on Memorial Day 2 years ago so I went to a med-check. Congratulations, you have congestive heart failure and a heart rate of 200. It felt like a long week at work which I had just done. Since then I have had 3 ablations: two for atrial flutter and 1 for atrial fibulation. My last episode was during Turkey Season last April. I packed up my trash and went home to scheule an outpatient cardio-version. I haven't had an issue since but I am on Pradaxa, Tikosyn (anti-arythmia) and a c-pap machine. I camp when I hunt so now I care a deep cycle marine battery and a set of of special jumper cables. I have to insulate the air hose when the temperatures drop below 45 or I get a waterboarding kind of experience witht the condensation. Except for a job that has terrible hours I feel much better now. I can not sleep lying down more than 30 minutes without the machine or the apnea effect kicks in. I have one area that can not be ablated between the two chambers of the heart but they have hopefully isolated it. If not, the next procedure is open heart where they do something called a mini-maze and remove the thin walled section between the left and right atrial chambers. It is too thin to burn. My electro-cardiologist said I went about 9 years without treatment to be where I was. I thought my symtoms were just lack of sleep from the job. The most pain I have felt is paying for the bills and them trying to get an IV in my veins.

[Mike in TX]

I am a cardiac nurse and agree that you should isolate all other variables before going in for ablation. A friend of mine took 4 tries before long term solution with ablation so a one shot deal it is not always, especially if there are more than 2 or 3 short circuits. Meds are bad when it comes to afib. Lack of sleep as well as sleep apnea will cause a fib. Best of luck to you.

[shooter2]

I've heard that there are some dangers with the procedure for A-Fib and, as the folks have said, no guarantees. I have A-Fib and take meds for it which pretty well control it. Nothing is 100% I guess. I did have the procedure for flutter and that was an in/out process and worked great.

Mike in TX said "I am a cardiac nurse and agree that you should isolate all other variables before going in for ablation"

That seems like good advice. Get many opinions and do what you think is best for you. I sent a prayer which is about all I can offer. S2

[DRNurse1]

Good responses here: Evaluate all your options and know, that while this may seem like a good one FOR YOU, it may not work.

Quick details: the heart is a bit like an electrical wire, some cells conduct, some insulate. The ablation process uses heat, cold or chemicals to change a region from conducting to insulating (stopping the conduction). There is a neat property of the cardiac muscle in that each conducting cell has the ability to start a heart beat. Each has its own intrinsic rate and can be reset by faster cells, so ordinarily the slower cells do not interfere with the faster ones.

That said, I hope and pray this works for you. You will feel much better if your heart beats regularly without adding medications. Your risks for heart attack and stroke are greatly decreased when your heart beats regularly.

DRNurse1, recovering ablated patents since 2002.

[Harry O]

I started having severe A-Fib about 5 years ago. The doctor talked about ablation, but wanted to try other (less invasive) stuff first. I had my heart shocked to straighten it out and then they started me on two different types of heart medication. It works about 99% of the time and the other 1% are brief episodes that go away on their own. My doctor said that when this no longer works (he says that there is no curing heart problems -- you just slow down the deterioration as much as possible), they will go to ablation, but not before.

I did have one problem with one of the heart meds interacting with my cholesterol lowering medication. It gave me severe joint pains in every joint in my body. After a few months, we finally figured out what caused it. I went off the cholesterol medications for a couple of weeks and then started up on another one. So far, so good.

[popper]

Had Afib @ 62, got a restart that fixed it for a few years. Wasn't on any medication of any kind. Pulse was > 200. Basically the pump stops pumping and you get tired real quick. Talked to the cardiac surgeon during a normal checkup - he said they used a catheter to burn out a nerve. Didn't tell me they use 5 catheters to probe before burning. Second episode @ 66, decided to get the ablation. No problems 4 yrs later. They can't guarantee the results but should be able to give a reasonable estimate. Hated that warfrin - if you can get off that stuff, do. Still on HBP and cholesterol meds, but cholesterol has been the same since I started testing in the 80's.

[wallenba]

My doctors tell me that I am one of a small percentage of individuals who actually know when they are in A-Fib. I was astonished to hear that most don't feel it. The high pulse rate, the fluttering is very uncomfortable but not painful. I'm told I'm lucky, in that I can get in for observation as soon as I feel it, lessening my risk of stroke. So far, I have always converted on my own after about 12-24 hours. I take Warfarin for the clotting, and have my INR ( clotting time) every 2-4 weeks depending on changes. I also take 100mg of Flecainide twice a day (Tambacoor).
As far as the Aspartame and MSG links, I looked it up on the net (thanks Gear) that seems to apply to those with 'lone a-fib', where no other heart factors are involved. I have hypertension and sleep apnea. On the plus side my stress test always show me with a healthy heart. I don't smoke, and only take a drink at weddings, holidays or wakes.
The psychological affects of this are that they make me think long and hard about venturing out far from home in the woods or out fishing on the lakes. Or going on a long bike ride, or plane trip. The 'what if's' are always popping up.

Being on Warfarin is a bummer if you really like green food like cabbage, spinach celery and the like. I do. They are high in vitamin K and mess with the clotting time. Another reason to have the ablation and get off the Warfarin.

Think I'm going to go ahead with it. Good and bad experiences posted here, but tipped in favor of it.

[farmerjim]

Never knew I had it till I was being hooked up for neck surgery and the nurse called out Doctor look at this!
I had a 162 resting pulse. Have had 2 ablations. First one they couldn’t get the catheter to stay on the spot because I have sleep apnea and would take a deep breath every time the doctor went to burn. Second time they did it under a general anesthetic , first was conscious sedation where I watched the catheter go into my heart before I dosed off,.
It was a hard place to reach but with a lot of burning they thought they had it. Unfortunately they did not get it all, But the cured it enough so that I only go to about 110 and only for a short time.
The only pain is having to lie on your back for 5 hours after the procedure.
I am glad I had it done. It is an extremely safe procedure.

[sparky45]

A-Fib is associated with a higher incidence of Stroke. Those with A-Fib that do have a Stroke are less likely to survive than those who have a Stroke without having A-Fib. A-Fib is a condition whereby the Right Atrium of the Heart has more than one focus (point of impulse or electrical discharge) firing which causes the Atrium to contract usually with less efficiency and in a chaotic manner. Once located that area of the Atrium is "zapped" to stop the chaotic rhythm. Very common procedure and done on a daily basis at all medical centers. Check out your Cardiologist and medical facility thoroughly and if satisfied go through the procedure. Described by most Heart Associations as a life saving procedure. I hope this message encourages instead of discourages you in your decision.

[wv109323]

I was diagnosed with WPW at age 35. The doctor put me on Norpace and that medicine worked for 20 years. The doctor wanted me to have the ablation but since the medicine worked 100% I never did.
The doctor told me the surgery was 95% successful. With WPW it gets better with age. At age 57 I have been off the Norpace for about 2 years with absolutely no problems.
I remind you this WPW and not Afib.

[Boyscout]

Nurse Mike's advise is the same as my cardiologist. Take care of the easy stuff first (in my case Atrial Flutter in the left ventrical). Many of the older anti-arythmia medicines have severe long term effects and they may try some newer ones that lesser side effects. Age has a lot to do with it. Pradaxa is much easier to live with than Warfarin. It has many of the same dangers but you only have to be off it for two days before surgery. Vitamin K rich foods are not an issue since it works on blood clotting through a different mechanism than warfarin and asprin. I can usually tell when I go into A-fib and confirm it with an excercise watch I wear all the time now (Sportline at Dicks). The ER let me check my pulse against their monitors last time I was in and we matchec up by about 1-2 heartbeats. Before I "feel" anything I usually get agitated and anxious. Sometimes I feel a buzz up my neck. My cardiologist said once the symptoms start they can hold off until I start getting light headed and short of breath or I cardiovert back on my own which has only happened a few times. My last cardio-version was a scheduled out-patient 26 hours after going out of rythm. He wants to avoid the more invasive mini-maze until I have had some time to heal. Ablations are not always effective immediately as scar tissue at the ablation sites needs to form.

[DRNurse1]

Good information from the above posts. One clarification about the heart as a pump: if any pump runs too slow, it pumps less. The odd thing about the heart is that if it beats too fast, it also pumps less. Too fast is different for everyone because of other medical/ health issues but for most folks above about 140 or 150 beats per minute the time it takes to fill the heart with blood is longer than the time in between beats. This creates a cascade: each beat pumps a little less than your body wants, so your body speeds up the heart rate, but that just leads to even less blood being pumped. Think of you r blood as a thick viscous fluid the takes some time to move from one place (your atria) to another (your ventricles).
The atrial fibrillation makes this situation worse because the atria are responsible for the maximum filling of the ventricles prior to the ventricles pumping the blood out to our organs. If the atria are 'fibrillating' that maximum filling is not synchronized and your heart may pump 25% less with each beat.

That said, Get-R-Done, Mr. Wallenba, feel better, and hug your kids.