I've bit my tounge long enough!

[Springfield0612]

I just have to vent! I saw a post on armslist.com here in WA. Guy is selling what I assume to be reloads for 9mm, packaged in plastic baggies and is selling them for $45/50 rounds!!! :evil: I understand what is going on right now in the market but, COME ON!!! I've seen a lot of local retailers here in my area that are not giving into the high prices and it is much appreciated, but guys like this make me sick!
Ok I feel better now! :confused:

[Lee]

Agreed. May he rot in hell...

[btroj]

If people are willing to pay the price then they deserve what they get.

A fool and his money.....

[Ed Barrett]

As I understand it, it's supply and demand. This should show us all how close our supply system is to collapse. I sort of live in the boondocks and food isn't a problem but manufactured products can be we try to keep a couple of seasons of canning lids and other things. When a serious problem ever hits this country people living in large cities will freak out when the grocery store doesn't have food to sell and no heat or air conditioning, drug store out of medicine. When those things happen people will either have those things or pay any amount of money for them. But money won't be worth anything either. Think about that for a while. No one complains when a stock goes up, basicly the same thing as $45.00 9MM's. Just my 2 cents worth.

[km101]

Right there with you!

[462]

It's just another example of the law of supply and demand at work. Though I'd neither buy nor shoot a stranger's reloads, he's entitled to ask whatever price he wants.

[tomme boy]

Now Think of this as food! And what would happen.

[DLCTEX]

Well, we are not to a bag of gold for a cup of dove's dung yet. He can ask, but I will not pay.If others do, oh well.

[TheDoctor]

If he's selling reloads, does he hold the proper licenses? Had a local guy here trying to sell 100 reloaded .223 for $150.00. Figured he was smoking something.

[Jim]

If he's selling reloads, does he hold the proper licenses? Had a local guy here trying to sell 100 reloaded .223 for $150.00. Figured he was smoking something.

You mean like the people at CTD selling LC penetrators (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-223)for a buck.88 a round?

[willie_pete]

Ask him if he has a Type 6 FFL. I'm betting the post will disappear.

WP

[Swamp Man]

This kind of thing is going on all over on one gun auction sites I seen CCI stingers for $15 a 50 count box a while back. If people are hard up enough to pay that they will keep selling them at those prices.

[Crash_Corrigan]

Many shooters over the years have asked me to make reloads for them.

This is because when I go to the range fellow shooters are amazed to discover that the rounds I shoot are all reloads and they look better than new factory rounds. Combined with the accuracy and reliability of these they all want them.


This has allowed me to convert many shooters in reloaders and fellow boolit casters. Some have become very insistent on me selling them some ammo. I have steadfastly refused for many reasons.

First the foremost is the liability issues inherent in making and selling ammo to anybody. However we live in a country with the highest ratio of bottom feeders in the world. All these LAWYERS are looking for work.

So I had better have my ducks in a row. First in order to comply with existing laws I cannot make ammo for sale in my home. Even making ammo for myself violates the CC&R's of the community in which I live.

So I need to find commercial space to make ammo. Then I have to get a business license from the City of Las Vegas and county of Clark here in Nevada. To get such a license requires me to be in complaince with OSHA regulations and local fire department regulations.

These regulations will require me to insure that all my highly combustible propellants and explosive primers and toxic lead are kept and stored according to current and future regulations. Compliance will cost me some big bucks. In addition I will be required to have state of the art security arrangments including alarms and Video coverage etc.

Then comes the 600 lb. Gorilla......ATF and the federal gobermint and all thier demonic minions. I will need ATF licenses and some sort of FFL license in order to manufacture and distribute ammo.

To do it right will cost me major bucks and raise my overhead to a point where I will need to sell my ammo for at least a dollar round just to make expenses.

Did I mention insurance? Ask a legitimate manufacturer of ammo what hoops they have to jump through in order to stay in business? Then the same shortages that all reloaders suffer will also be suffered by me as well. Powder, Primers, Brass and Lead Alloy are all only available from a small group of manufacturers and all of those are also required to be in compliance with local and Federal regulations.

Have I mentioned the groundswell against anything related to guns that is currently in fashion? All the left leaning media and the tofu farting, Prius driving, tree hugging, granola crunching scum and their ****** friends are ready to throw their money and efforts into anything that will disarm and render the 2nd Amendment just an ancient curiosity.

So if this fella is in compliance with any rules and regs to sell his home made fodder and sell it by the baggie full I would be floored.

I have been involved in boolit casting and reloading since '93 and although I have save a lot of money by making my own ammo it has not been a cheap hobby. I have thousands and thousands of dollars invested in equipment and such. I just have been able to be involved in a sport which has always facinated me and since retirement has become a major part of my life.

I would not have it any other way. However in order to keep it I cannot afford to sell or give away any ammo to anyone for any reason as doing so would expose me to lawsuits which could take everything away in a hearbeat and make a bottom feeder rich.

It ain't happening on my watch.

In fact I have made plans to distribute my weapons and all my reloading stuff via a Firearms Administrator included in my Last Will and Testament.

His fee has been negotiated in advance (M1 Garand, S&W Model 57 and a Winchester 50-90 Sharps with the gorgeous Kelley Soule Sights) and he will ensure that my wishes will be granted. He will sell to our members on this forum most if not all of my collection and a portion of the profits will go to Ken (45 Nut) and the remainder to my wife. This will ensure that this equipment will stay in the family so to speak and not be scrapped and discarded.

I want to make sure that the shooting and reloading aspect of this sport will continue and we will encourage the inculcation of our love of the sport to our young people. I do not want it end with our generation.

This walking turd in Washington state could care less about future generations, about ruining the reputation of reloaders or of playing into the hands of those Diana Feinstein worshippers who are trying the destroy our sport forever. He has no idea of the Pandora's Box he has opened and could care less because he just wants the money.

I would love to have the opportunity to speak with him about his illegal and inflammatory actions. However this is not be be. He will get his buck something from some dufus and spend his profit without a care in the world about anything or anybody other than himself. He could be in a world of hurt.

I am sorry for having to hold back and not express my feelings but to be PC I must suffer this offence quietly.

[dudits]

crash, well said!!! bravo and i feel you're pain on the PC thing

[BLTsandwedge]

Crash, you mentioned insurance. I've a suspicion that a small ammunition manufacturer would only find liability coverage in excess lines. There are a good number of companies that'll work with excess lines- but the very definition is that excess lines do not conform to your state's insurance regulator. In short, it isn't expensive- it is extremely, bitterly expensive- and the carrier can write into the policy any limitations they desire.

[MtGun44]

LOL!

WHO CARES? If one fool wants to sell ammo to another fool for $10,000 per round, I do not
care one whit. Nobody is forcing anyone here.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

LOL!

WHO CARES? If one fool wants to sell ammo to another fool for $10,000 per round, I do not
care one whit. Nobody is forcing anyone here.

Bill

Both ends of this process probably deserve one another richly--though its existence does the human race no credit whatsoever.

[41 mag fan]

A fool and his money will soon part....but i'm not a fool and not parting with my money!!

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like a job for the BATFE, I don't want someone shooting junk ammo next to me (or anybody else) on the range. Reassign the agents from Fast & Furious to Shiny & Dangerous. Seems all these guys are good at is polishing brass.

[Kull]

LOL!

WHO CARES? If one fool wants to sell ammo to another fool for $10,000 per round, I do not
care one whit. Nobody is forcing anyone here.

Bill

Agree. Don't care.

[Case Stuffer]

Well I care. Everytime there is another senseless shooting it provides more bad press for all responsible / lawful gun owners and thos who reload and sell ammo outside ofthe law are not doing any of us any favors. We have move than enough cards sacked against us allready.

[swheeler]

Well I care. Everytime there is another senseless shooting it provides more bad press for all responsible / lawful gun owners and thos who reload and sell ammo outside ofthe law are not doing any of us any favors. We have move than enough cards sacked against us allready.


yaaaaaaaaaaah right, who's law is that you're talking about, it's not mine.

[dakotashooter2]

A fool and his money will soon part....but i'm not a fool and not parting with my money!!

And possibly a fool and his fingers may part also.................................

[Echo]

It's just another example of the law of supply and demand at work. Though I'd neither buy nor shoot a stranger's reloads, he's entitled to ask whatever price he wants.

+1. This is the Land Of The Free (Dang it, it IS!), and he can ask whatever price he wants to. And I am free not to buy it...

[MtGun44]

+1 on Echo.

Bill

[johnnybar]

I just have to vent! I saw a post on armslist.com here in WA. Guy is selling what I assume to be reloads for 9mm, packaged in plastic baggies and is selling them for $45/50 rounds!!! :evil: I understand what is going on right now in the market but, COME ON!!! I've seen a lot of local retailers here in my area that are not giving into the high prices and it is much appreciated, but guys like this make me sick!
Ok I feel better now! :confused: When I first read this post I thought, "Dang! here we go with a double charge waiting to go off!" But, after cooling off a little before replying, I thought in these days and times, our rubber bands are wound so tight that we need to take a breath or two before they snap. We have no way of knowing what this guy is selling do we? He may be moving bulk 9mm....remember the bulk deals several retailers use to offer in ammo cans? Anyway guys, don't blow a gasket over this guy. If they are reloads, some badge on federal payroll will spiff up his resume' at this guy's expense.

[horsesoldier]

Its called the free market. We are letting the market determine the value of our goods.I am getting tired of people complaining about people hoarding and jacking prices up.We all seen this coming.If you dont like the price go somewhere else or wait it out.If somebody want to make a buck its their business.As far as I am concerned he can do whatever he wants.

[Reload3006]

While it does grate on the nerves a rightful owner has every right to sell what he has for as much as he wants. A buyer has the right to say no I dont need it for that price. But there are other factors involved here. Look at Dianne Feinstein And all the other Anti fanatics. If you notice they don't mind the high prices they want everything driven up so the average Joe can't afford it. That doesn't stop them now does it? Take automatic weapons for example you can own and shoot a fully automatic weapon if you have the money for the license ammo and weapon perfectly legal. But its so expensive you and I will never be able to do that. Even if this gun grabbing **** doesn't go anywhere the Lib Politicians have managed to drive up the cost so that you and I will have a hard time justifying our hobby/sport. So on one hand its supply/demand on the other hand there are some sinister events going on here and We all should be paying attention to. Or yes you will be perfectly legal to have a permit to own and shoot anything you want you just will not be able to afford it. But that doesn't slow down the Feinsteins Comos and other Fat cats. I don't begrudge any rich person their money but I do begrudge them pricing me out of the Second amendment right doesn't that bother anyone but me?

[bob208]

i would not call the guy selling a fool. just some one taking advantage of things. the fool is the one paying the price.

[Case Stuffer]

While it does grate on the nerves a rightful owner has every right to sell what he has for as much as he wants.

I guess I need the rightful owner part explained.

I think I own a quanity of reloaded ammo but I have been lead to believe that I do not have the right to sell it. I own equipment and supplies to reload ammo but again not licenesed to sell said ammo. I own a fully auto firearm but again can not sell it to just anyone. I / we can not ship,receive,send in for repair anything smokless without going thru a FFL holder.

I own firearms which I can not sell to minors. I use to drink and had beer and liquor which I could nbot sell to minors.

In this country ( USA) just because one purchases ,pays for an item does not give the full legal right to do with it as they please. Hell many live in subdevisions where they can not paint thier homes certain colors,can not have an antenna showing park a boat ,camper, motorcycle etc. in their drive or on the street.


Explain to me how a select fire capable of firing full auto requires special tax $200 stamp, special applivcations / approval yet a semi only with a bump fire stock is legal.

[horsesoldier]

To me I dont see how its any of the feds business.They can pass all of these stupid laws they want.Sure doesnt sound like a free country to me, asking for permission to do anything

[horsesoldier]

Sorry if I came out as a little harsh.

[Blacksmith]

These prices are demand driven so if the demand slows the prices will subside. If the demand does not subside then the market place will create greater capacity which will result in greater competition and lower prices. It is called supply and demand in the free market.

[Adam10mm]

So I had better have my ducks in a row. First in order to comply with existing laws I cannot make ammo for sale in my home. Even making ammo for myself violates the CC&R's of the community in which I live.

So I need to find commercial space to make ammo. Then I have to get a business license from the City of Las Vegas and county of Clark here in Nevada. To get such a license requires me to be in complaince with OSHA regulations and local fire department regulations.

These regulations will require me to insure that all my highly combustible propellants and explosive primers and toxic lead are kept and stored according to current and future regulations. Compliance will cost me some big bucks. In addition I will be required to have state of the art security arrangments including alarms and Video coverage etc.

Then comes the 600 lb. Gorilla......ATF and the federal gobermint and all thier demonic minions. I will need ATF licenses and some sort of FFL license in order to manufacture and distribute ammo.
My village has no zoning laws, so I run my business from home. Cuts down on overhead immensely. No local license, no county license, no state license (state barely regulates the firearms industry). My company's only administrative expenses are $25 for the company annual report, $150 for the three year FFL, $2,100 annual liability insurance, and $2,750 annual ITAR registration fee as a manufacturer of defensive articles. $4,925 in administrative costs annually.


To do it right will cost me major bucks and raise my overhead to a point where I will need to sell my ammo for at least a dollar round just to make expenses.
This is where the tiny guys like me have an advantage. My overhead is stupid low for a business of this type.


Did I mention insurance? Ask a legitimate manufacturer of ammo what hoops they have to jump through in order to stay in business? Then the same shortages that all reloaders suffer will also be suffered by me as well. Powder, Primers, Brass and Lead Alloy are all only available from a small group of manufacturers and all of those are also required to be in compliance with local and Federal regulations.
There are components available to OEM manufacturers that aren't available to dealers or the public. Primers for one. There are special OEM only discount primers that can only be sold if you have an 06, 07, or 10 type FFL (ammo, gun, DD manufacturer, respectively). They are cheap as hell compared to the market right now. Need something? $15-22/K all day long and if it's out of stock, wait a week. When you grow big enough you can get contract terms, ie you are guaranteed to be supplied with X amount of product for Y amount of price. It doesn't take that much to get there, but you're in Camdex territory. Three to four thousand rounds per hour if you have a good load that will facilitate it and then do that 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week.


Crash, you mentioned insurance. I've a suspicion that a small ammunition manufacturer would only find liability coverage in excess lines. There are a good number of companies that'll work with excess lines- but the very definition is that excess lines do not conform to your state's insurance regulator. In short, it isn't expensive- it is extremely, bitterly expensive- and the carrier can write into the policy any limitations they desire.
$2,100 a year for insurance. Not as bad as people make it out to be. $175/mo factored monthly isn't "bitterly expensive".


LOL!

WHO CARES? If one fool wants to sell ammo to another fool for $10,000 per round, I do not
care one whit. Nobody is forcing anyone here.

Bill
Yep, asking price is one thing. Price sold is another. Ask what you want, the paying customer sets the price.