first run casting and i've got some questions

[jondavis0904]

Well today I made my first run at casting. I mainly wanted to just use my Lee Pro 4-20 pot to get a fill for it and to autotune my PID that I built. Well while doing this I decided to go ahead and cast some bullets. Through my whole run I was getting folds and wrinkles in all of my bullets. I have read around on here and have found it could be due to lead temp being too low or the mold not being warm enough. Well my lead temp was at about 695 F. When I dipped the corner of my mold into the lead and lifted it back out none stuck so I figured my mold was warm enough. All the bullets I cast today had wrinkles. I have attached a picture of what I got through out my whole run. The only thing I could think was the outside temp was cool enough to make my lead and mold cool quickly. I'm in South Ga but the outside temp today was only about 69. Any thoughts or pointers in the right direction? And I did not smoke the inside of my mold due to having read mixed results of it on this site. I am using the Lee TL356-124-2r.
Thanks,
Jonathan
63206

[cs86]

I'm curious to see what others say. I had the same problem. I smoked my mold and the wrinkles went away. I've had others tell me that smoking it is a way of coving up some of the problems. I think it has to do with mold temperature. If you just casted a few then it probably didn't get up to the right mold temp. The next time I cast I'm going to try not smoking the mold and see what happens when the mold gets hot and see what happens about about 10 casts.

[jondavis0904]

like i said I did not smoke the mold. all together i cast maybe 150 bullets and they all had these wrinkles.

[turmech]

Only 2 possibilities come to mind mold not hot enough or not clean enough.

For the cleaning part I clan my molds with hot soapy water and tooth brush. Some times even after cleaning with soapy water I will need to hit the cavities with brake cleaner sort of a second cleaning.

For the temperature part I have just recently incorporated a hot plate into my casting set up and it has really helped. Prior to that I would heat it on the corner of the pot and dip it in the lead as it would appear you have done. I then would need to cast fairly fast initially to reach a good mold temperature. Prior to the hot plate it would not be uncommon for me to cast 100 bullets before I reached the correct mold temp. I do however ladle cast a bottom pour should be quicker.

Once you reach good fill and while getting there there is not time for inspections between bullet drops.

[turmech]

Oh, I vote for not smoking the mold. I have only ever smoke one mold and it was not the mold which got smoked it was the hollow base plug on a lee slug mold.

[jondavis0904]

thanks for the input. I have a hot plate, but just didn't use it today. The only cleaning I did to the mold was spraying it down real well with break cleaner and using a cotton swab to clean the inside of the mold.

[xringshutr]

Cast at a higher temp. Too cold. Indicators: shiny, wrinkly, rounded driving bands, etc. Re-clean your mold too. I use just plain old carb cleaner. Others use a toothbrush and Dawn dishwashing liquid, but the mold should be completely free of any kind of oils. Smoking seems to be frowned upon here, but I have great luck with it in my Lee molds and it has no discernable effect on diameter, so I say do it if it makes life easier. My MP molds don't need smoke, they just work...and work well.
Getting a nice consistant pace going helps too. The sprue should take about 3-5 seconds to cool/initially frost over. Then you vary your pace or adjust temp on the pot to maintain that temp. Don't forget to use sprue plate lube. Makes a huge difference in the operation of the mold. That should cover a few basics to try out.

69 posts......sweet.

[wv109323]

I agree that mold or lead may too cold.
I read an older casting manual that said the old timers would spit on their molds. When the spittle would fry on the mold they knew it was the right temperature. Not the most sanitary way but it should give you an idea how hot the mold needs to be. I would pre-heat the mold with the hot plate.
One other possibility is that the vent lines in your mold are not open allowing the air to escape the cavity when the lead is entering the cavity. Like others said clean the mold and make sure there is nothing that would prohibit air from escaping.
Here is a hint: I use an RCBS 124gn. CT mold. With that mold I have to get the lead into the cavity very quickly to get the mold to fill completely. I open the bottom pour spout all the way to fill that mold. I don't know if it is me or the mold but I find the mold one of the most difficult to cast with of the ones I own. If I pour the lead slowly I get wrinkles. I hope this helps.

[Buzz64]

I would guess it's oil in the mold - alcohol or acetone and a Q-tip works for me. Wild card is the shiny boolits - that usually indicates lead is too cool - but then you said 695 so that should be plenty. I'd clean the molds again and suspect your thermometer isn't giving an accurate reading - crank up the pot until you get slightly frosted bullets and see what the ole thermo says.

[jondavis0904]

I'm not using a thermometer. I have a PID on my lee pot.

[Jailer]

Mold is too cold. Pre heat the mold more and increase your casting pace. You pot at 695 is plenty hot enough.

[Hounddog]

I agree with the others, you gotta get that mold hot. I own a slew of lee molds and those little suckers can be finicky when it comes to temp. I find that once I preheat my mold I like to dip it in the melt to get the temp up and make my boolits frosty. Normally the heat dissipates from the mold while casting and I have to re-dip it once I start seeing small wrinkles or poor fill out. Once you've done it a few times you will get a feel for your mold's quirks. Good luck.

Hounddog

[cs86]

Do any of you notice when the sprue is being pulled from the bullet rather then slicing off? I noticed it more when the mold is on the hotter side. It goes away when the mold is on the cooler side. I had a thread that people said I had the mold to hot. This thread sounds like with a lee mold I shouldn't have much of a problem with being to hot.

[Larry Gibson]

What alloy?

Did you clean the mould and degrease it before use?

Don't smoke the mould BTW.

Cast at 725.

Keep the sprue plate 3/8 - 1/2 from the spout.

Open the spout so the alloy gets into the cavity as quick as possible.

Pour a generous sprue over each cavity.

Larry Gibson

[jondavis0904]

What alloy?

Did you clean the mould and degrease it before use?

Don't smoke the mould BTW.

Cast at 725.

Keep the sprue plate 3/8 - 1/2 from the spout.

Open the spout so the alloy gets into the cavity as quick as possible.

Pour a generous sprue over each cavity.

Larry Gibson

I'm using straight clip on wheel weights, hand sorted to pick out the zinc and iron ones. I cleaned my mold with break cleaner. I did not smoke the mold.

[462]

Wrinkles are a result of a mould that's not clean enough, or not at its optimum casting temperature. Since those wheel weight boolits are so shiny, the mould's temperature is the culprit. A mould oven is a spiffy casting tool.

Your alloy temperature is okay.

[mpmarty]

+1 on too cold mold and the pot temp is probably about right for coww.

[dbosman]

I'm not using a thermometer. I have a PID on my lee pot.

Calibrated against what? How do you know X on your PID translates to 695 degree lead? You wrote you were tuning the PID.
Your next PID will be for the hot plate. Yeah, me too.

[jondavis0904]

Calibrated against what? How do you know X on your PID translates to 695 degree lead? You wrote you were tuning the PID.
Your next PID will be for the hot plate. Yeah, me too.

Only thing i had to compare the temp on the PID to was the outside temp and my thermometer on my back porch.. of which it was the same +/- a degree or 2. As already stated.. the molds were cleaned fairly well with break cleaner. I'll warm the mould up on the hotplate next time.

[Springfield]

After 150 bullets any oil on the mold is long gone. Preheat the mould well by dipping the end, not just a corner, of it into the lead and counting to 150. At that point it is probably too hot but is is easier to cool down a mould than heat it up. If the sprue is taking less than 8 seconds to cool the old is too cold for those bullets, at least until you get a good casting rhythm going. Most guys say you have to clean the heck out of a LEE mould, I say just burn that oil off and get a coating going on the mold, kinda the easy way to smoke a mould. Same for Mihec, noe and BRP moulds. You may sacrifice the first few casts but saves a lot of time cleaning. Sacrilege, I know, but I cast 5-10,000 bullets a week so I will stick with what works for me.

[jondavis0904]

After 150 bullets any oil on the mold is long gone. Preheat the mould well by dipping the end, not just a corner, of it into the lead and counting to 150. At that point it is probably too hot but is is easier to cool down a mould than heat it up. If the sprue is taking less than 8 seconds to cool the old is too cold for those bullets, at least until you get a good casting rhythm going. Most guys say you have to clean the heck out of a LEE mould, I say just burn that oil off and get a coating going on the mold, kinda the easy way to smoke a mould. Same for Mihec, noe and BRP moulds. You may sacrifice the first few casts but saves a lot of time cleaning. Sacrilege, I know, but I cast 5-10,000 bullets a week so I will stick with what works for me.

The sprue was cooling almost as soon as I got done pouring into the mold. Sounds like my problem is a very easy fix with my hotplate/dipping the mould.

[MikeS]

Yes, the problem you're having is the mould is too cold. Your pot temp is right (assuming your PID is correct), and your cleaning sounds like you got the oil out of it. You might want to try cleaning it again, as it can't hurt. I also use a PID on my Lee pot, and I keep it set to 350C (which converts to 662F) for most of my casting, I generally don't even cast hotter when casting hollow point boolits, something many people here think you need to do.

So, clean the mould again, and use your hotplate to preheat the mould. I usually put my mould on the hotplate and turn on both the hotplate, and Lee pot at the same time, and by the time the lead is ready to cast, so is the mould. One thing you'll need to do is check your hotplate. My first hotplate ( cheap open coil bought at Walgreens for $12.00) needed to be on HI to heat the mould, but my next hotplate (cheap one that has a solid top, bought on Amazon for under $20.00) needs to be on the MED setting to keep the mould at the proper casting temp. Another thing I do is I keep the hotplate on the whole time I'm casting, so if I take a break I put the mould back on the hotplate, which is the reason for making sure the setting is right, I can take a 5 minute break from casting, and the mould will still be at the right temp for casting.

Another thing, because you're using an aluminum mould you'll need to cast as fast as you safely can, aluminum moulds loose their heat very fast! I find that when I'm casting with an aluminum mould I need to cast fairly fast, when I'm casting with a brass mould I can cast at a slower pace without a problem, in fact the slower pace keeps the mould at the proper temp without the need to cool the mould with a wet rag as many folks do. I try to regulate the temp of the mould while casting by varying my pace so I don't get the mould too hot to the point where I would need to cool it off.

[jondavis0904]

the hotplate I have is also one of the open coil cheapos from walgreens.

[Case Stuffer]

Good news is that casting mistakes are an easy do over and once you learn thru experience it will likely say with you for many years.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?188632-Casting-is-like-riding-a-bicycle

Like Springfield I never bother to clean my molds ,well I did have to clean a few that had developed a bit of rust from 30 years of storage. I agree wth others that your mold was to cold but can not understand how after that much casting.

I use a 35 year old RCBS Pro Melt, set the dial to 750 , place mold(s) on top ,remove molds to flux then start casting. I was getting good boolits on third cast of the day in a 60 F shop with doors and windows open and a light breeze blowing outside but no real air movement cooling the mold(s). I had to slow down my casting rate after 15 minutes or so as the sprue was taking to long to cool.


I have long looked at casting as more of n art than a science. My lead thermometer is still missing in action snce mymove six years ago however my pot dial was fairly accuarte last time checked years ago.

[metho]

Make sure you are pouring fast enough. If you pour too slow or are stopping during the pouring process it will cause wrinkles.

[David2011]

The sprue was cooling almost as soon as I got done pouring into the mold. Sounds like my problem is a very easy fix with my hotplate/dipping the mould.

You can get your mold hot, even too hot with the hot plate but you can't keep it hot with the hot plate. I use the same Walgreen's coil type hot plate and it works just fine. The mold temp is controlled by the pace at which you cast. It's less important if your melt is at 675 degrees or 725 degrees. If you cast too slowly, the mold won't be hot enough. If you cast too fast, it will be too hot. It's more of a feel thing than a measurable thing. My pace usually needs to be 3 to 3.5 pours per minute- a new batch every 17 to 20 seconds. It may not sound like much but seventeen seconds per pour is a LOT faster than 20 second intervals and 15 seconds per pour is flat out humpin' it.

David