Are we sure all these are zinc?

[Whitespider]

I sorted a couple buckets of WW this AM, I found these amongst the treasures and trash.
4431

I’ve noticed pictures of the same type of weight on other posts, always described as zinc. I tried cutting into them with a knife like I do when I suspect a zinc clip-on. The two on the left are hard, I can’t even ding them with a knife. But the six on the right are soft, they cut with a knife just like lead alloy weights do. As you can see my test knife isn’t that sharp. Look at the picture, you can plainly see the cuts I made into them.

Are we sure all weights of this style are zinc?

[EMC45]

I've come across some that will cut and some that won't. I melted some of the soft ones and the paint just bubbled off 'em. I believe they are somewhere in the berm now!

[357maximum]

Why risk it? Save them for pinning bait to the bottom of the river..

[Crash_Corrigan]

I throw it all in the cast iron dutch oven. When it starts to melt I insert my RCBS Thermometer. I keep it there and keep the melt at a temp less than 700 degrees. Lead will start to melt at 500 or so and should be liquid at 650 or less. Zinc however will not melt until it hits 740 or more. Keeping the alloy at less than 700 will keep the Zinc or other mysterious weights in a solid state. When it gets to above 660 or so start taking off the unmelted stuff and clips. When it is all gone then flux the remainder. Once it is properly fluxed and stirred then remove the dross and either ladle some out to your ingot molds or add some more ww's. Just remember to keep the temps less than 700 and no zinc will ever impregnante your alloys. I usually keep a couple of inches of molten lead in my smelting pot as this liquid pool quickly transfers heat to new cold ww's and improves my speed of smelting. I dump the clips and dross onto a sandy area of the ground and later when it all cools I toss it in the garbage or whatever. A powerful magnet helps to find the clips in the sand and makes the job easier. I do not worry about zinc weights as the above practice keeps them out of my alloy. :mrgreen:

[ron brooks]

I believe that Zinc melts at 787, not 740.

[felix]

Ron, nobody in their right mind would make WW out of PURE zinc, or for that matter, pure anything. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

Whitespider,

It seems most weights I have suspected as zinc have turned out to be mild steel after using the magnet test. Most of those that have appeared harder than Pb but nonferrous have only had a coating on them (perhaps a baked on enamel paint) and I have ended up melting most of them. I collect weights from independent tire shops that service work trucks.

Felix,

How does one know if he is getting zinc contamination? I've noticed when casting lately that my metal tends to cling a little to the sides of my casting furnace (a Magma 40# MasterPot set up for ladle casting at about 800F or a bit higher). I have been slowly working toward casting with pure clip-on WW metal but at the same time I've been rendering WW's fairly quickly over a water heater burner which doesn't give me much control over BTU output; i.e., the bottom of the cast iron rendering pot could be 1000F before the top reaches 500F... the turkey fryer stand does get a little red where the cast iron pot sits on it. I have been assuming that the attraction of my alloy to the pot's surface has been due to lack of tin (solder). Boolits have seemed normal so far but I've needed to increase the heat (as expected) to get mold fill-out equivalent to using WW/solder alloys at 750F to 770F.

MJ

[ron brooks]

Felix,

Good point, I really hadn't though of zinc being alloyed, and that lowering the melting point, just as alloying lead, as in wheel weights or linotype does. I've always tried to not let the lead I'm smelting get any hotter than 650, durn sure below 700. With my burner, it ain't hard.

Ron

[Freightman]

pure zink is higher than lead!

[Johnch]

At least the ones with the Zn on then are for sure
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v312/johnch/?action=view&current=ww.jpg

I have found a bunch of steel weights that look almost exactly the same

When I sort , I now have 5 buckets
Trash , stick on , WW , Zink and steel

God do I hate sorting WW
The good old days are sure gone !!

John

[John Boy]

The good old days are sure gone !!
John, there still a few good days left ... I scored two 5 gallon pails last week - pure garden variety WW's and about 2#'s of them 98.4% Pb strips :mrgreen:

Then later in the day, my neighbor said - "Come on over, I have a present for you" Was 43#'s of pure lead drain pipe that he took out of a bathroom job

[Marlin Junky]

Has anyone ever found a zinc WW that isn't riveted to its clip?

MJ

[Johnch]

I have some Zink stick on weights , they have the Zn on them also

I have been doing a Bend test

Lead ww I can bend ( if not to small )
Zink and steel , I am not man enough , or too much man depending on how you look at me [smilie=1: [smilie=1:

John

[Dye]

Has anyone ever found a zinc WW that isn't riveted to its clip?

MJ

Yes they are out there

Be carefull Dye

[pumpguy]

I have pulled out about a half dozen that looked like lead until they floated to the top of my dutch oven during a melting session.

[Marlin Junky]

Yes they are out there

Be carefull Dye

Please let me know the next time you find one.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

I have pulled out about a half dozen that looked like lead until they floated to the top of my dutch oven during a melting session.

Were they steel? Did you test them with a magnet?

MJ

Sounds like those soft nonlead wheel weights in the opening post may be made from PVC. Here's something that might interest everyone:

EPP Rapid Research
Lead Free Wheel Weights
February 15, 2007 (Updated)
February 5, 2007
Request:
Eric Nelson from King County requested research assistance on EPP non-lead wheel weights. King County has done previous research and is using the Xact Balancing Product (PVC) in the Fleets Department (see Additional Resources below for previous research and background on the issues surrounding the use of lead wheel weights). King County has tested steel wheel weights and have attempted to get consistent pricing and availability in the past for non-lead metal wheel weights; however, the majority of the supply was going directly to OEMs of new cars and trucks. King County would like to know if alternatives are now available in sufficient quantity to get government pricing and consistent supply.
Key Findings:
Alternatives to lead wheel weights and manufacturers include:
1) PVC Plastic (IMI Xact Balance) (PVC is a source of environmental concern and may not be an environmental improvement compared to lead1)
2) Steel (BADA (manufactured by Hennessey Industries), Perfect Equipment) Steel is currently the environmentally preferable option. Prices of steel wheel weights are now competitively priced for large orders.
3) Zinc (Perfect Equipment) (Zinc is also a source of environmental concern)
The environmentally preferable option currently is steel. PVC is not a good alternative to lead since it
is being phased out of many products because of links to human and environmental health concerns. If a polyethylene alternative for the Xact Balance product becomes available, this will eliminate the concern about their current composition of PVC. Zinc can also be harmful to the environment and human health, so zinc is not the best option. Zinc pollution has exceeded allowable quantities in storm water in Washington in some areas(2).
Pending WA State Legislation for Lead Free Wheel Weights

[footnotes at the end of page 1]:
1 IMI is currently conducting performance testing on the next generation non-PVC XACTBalance product. The prototypes they are working with are polyethylene. As soon as they finalize the final material choice and dimensions, samples will be available.
2 Terry Whittmeier, Washington Department of Ecology Storm Water Inspector 509-574-3991

Washington State House Bill HB 2143 - 2007-08 introduced and referred to the Select Committee on Environmental Health February 9, 2007. If passed this bill will require the use of alternatives to lead wheel weights. Link to the bill: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/Summary.aspx?bill=2143&year=2007
*Update March 9, 2007 OLYMPIA, Wash. (March 1, 2007) — A bill that would ban lead wheel weights in Washington state has unanimously passed a special committee of the Washington Assembly.
The ban would go into effect on state-owned vehicles Jan. 1 and on all vehicles registered in the state by Jan. 1, 2010.
Pricing and Availability: Steel wheel weights are now available to the after markets, with prices almost comparable to the price of lead wheel weights if an organization orders a sufficient quantity. Shipping costs make it most economical to order as large a quantity as possible.
Northwest Distributors:
Myers Tire Supply (BADA, IMI Xact Balance, Perfect Equipment)
Northwest Sales Group 5718 1st Avenue South Seattle, Washington 98108 Government Representative, George Bond (330-253-5592)
Phone: 206-762-5111 Fax: 206-762-5546
Meyer’s Tire distributes plastic, aluminum and steel wheel weights for IMI (Xact), Perfect and BADA. George Bond worked with the Postal Service on a lead-free wheel weight pilot project. The California USPS has already converted to lead-free wheel weights. Government pricing is available.
NAPA (BADA)
Government Accounts Representative for King County Greg Ballinger 206-228-6272. Government pricing is available and production is able to meet orders.
“The BADA company will work only through our standard distribution for smaller end users. As of my conversation last week with the BADA Marketing Manager, we can deliver all of our current “steel” wheel weights on a regular basis given freight minimums and standard packaging requirements are met. All pricing will need to come from NAPA and I suggest that for those questions you may wish to contact Jim Dennis at NAPA headquarters at 800-298-8805 ex. 6591384”
Gregory Buhr
District Manager for the Northwest
Hennessey Industries (BADA)
Northwest Sales Group (IMI Xact Balance PVC Plastic)
Brian has developed a King County price list that is still current as of January 2007.

Six Roblees (IMI Xact Balance, Perfect Equipment)
Tukwila, WA
206-787-7970
Additional Resources:
“Automaker's Continue Move to go Lead-Free; Aftermarket Lags”, February 8, 2007 http://www.autocarepronews.com/default.aspx?type=art&id=80953&sid=271666&iid=4852&stid=0
Lead-Free Wheels Project, The Ecology Center
http://www.leadfreewheels.org/
King County Purchasing Bulletin on Lead Free Wheel Weights
http://www.metrokc.gov/procure/green/bul92.htm
State of Minnesota announces program to phase-out lead wheel weights on state vehicles
http://www.pca.state.mn.us/oea/media/040315.cfm
Criteria for Purchasing Decision Making:
o Lead alternative non toxic materials
o Product performance
o Availability in Northwest
o Cost
***To help disseminate this information and encourage EPP, PPRC will list the summarized results, including contact information, on its website. Please let us know if this is not acceptable***

[pumpguy]

The ones I pulled out look just like the lead ones. They were not steel. They were zinc. Next time I render wheel weights and get one I will post a picture. (If I can figure out how!!)

[Marlin Junky]

The ones I pulled out look just like the lead ones. They were not steel. They were zinc. Next time I render wheel weights and get one I will post a picture. (If I can figure out how!!)

How can they look like Pb and be zinc?

MJ

[Finn45]

Few examples here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2268&highlight=zinc

And here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6484&highlight=zinc

Later I've found more examples of very similar looking Pb and Zn weight pairs, but not any zinc weights with riveted clip. Of course there's markings Zn and Pb marked on them (except in the old Pb ones!), but if not, then knife/cutting plier/magnet tell's it for sure. With my limited supply of lead and lead alloys I don't take any risk of mixing zinc to my alloy, so I separate them as good as I can and also watch the temp while melting them.

[Marlin Junky]

Thank you Finn45...

The magnet and knife test ought to do it. If it's not mild steel and one can cut it with a knife, its either Pb or PVC.

MJ