Why the cost????

[mrblue]

So looking at molds and their prices. Ive noticed that for a small chunk of metal, usually a couple inches by a couples inches the prices is near or over a hundred bucks......why? As a manufacturer you would buy large amounts of metal, and would keep the price low. You can't tell me a small chuck of brass steal or alum costs over 20 bucks. Then you got a cnc machine or lathe to cut the steal, yeah ok, thats a huge amount of money I know that. And labor costs too. But i can't bring my self to spend so much money on a mold that I may or may not like. So tell me how can Lee do it and not Lyman or RCBS or any of the mold makers. I just don't get it, Seems like they should be out of business with companies like Lee offering high quality products at such reasonable prices. Any insight, what am I missing or are people just fools

[Love Life]

Cast with a Lee mould and then cast with a RCBS or custom mould and you will have your answer.

[Ben]

mrblue

These Lee molds you speak of ( and by the way, I like Lee products ) are not in the league with NOE, or Mihec , or Accurate molds. The quality and craftsmanship of the later 3 above is head and shoulders above Lee products.

The chances of getting a bad out of spec. mold from Lee is many times higher than the 3 I listed also.

If you could cast with NOE, or Mihec , or Accurate molds and then cast with Lee molds , I think you could easily see the difference.

You hear it a lot,........ but you pretty much get what you pay for.

[MtGun44]

EXTREME precision in the best of them, and very durable materials in the
more expensive ones, too. Better quality handles, often.

Precision work has always cost and still does.

OTOH, getting started with a Lee mold is a great deal and highly
recommended if they catalog a design you like. I have a number of
Lee molds that are just fine. Many of their designs do not do a thing
for me and I avoid them.

Bill

[fredj338]

The mat'l is almost free at todays labor costs, that is what you are paying for. Not to mention the 10s of 1000s of $$ in equip cost to produce the molds. I am not sure how Lee manages to produce even their avg quality molds for what they do but higher quality almost always cost more money.

[MT Chambers]

In the case of steel (or iron) I'm sure it is more labor intensive and harder on the tooling, but otherwise there is no comparison in regards to quality.....Accurate, NOE, Mountain Molds, LBT,Saeco, Rcbs, even Lyman, and all the rest are at the top of the mountain......Lee is in the gully at the bottom of the mountain. I'm not dissing Lee as they have a price point that suits some folks, and alot of folks start out with them.

[Hickory]

Try building a motorcycle.
They weigh about 500lbs, a1/4 ton of iron
and aluminum costs about $125 dollars.
I wonder why they cost so much?

[texassako]

I can best relate it to the industry I work in, cars. Lee is like a cheap subcompact. It will get you there as it is basic and no frills and may needs some work if you want it nicer. Lyman and RCBS are your Camry/Accords and get the job done every time you need them. The Accurate, NOE, etc. are your luxury cars, and do everything nicer, slicker, and with more features. Then you have places like Hollowpointmolds that is your custom shop, souping those molds up.

[Ben]

I can best relate it to the industry I work in, cars. Lee is like a cheap subcompact. It will get you there as it is basic and no frills and may needs some work if you want it nicer. Lyman and RCBS are your Camry/Accords and get the job done every time you need them. The Accurate, NOE, etc. are your luxury cars, and do everything nicer, slicker, and with more features. Then you have places like Hollowpointmolds that is your custom shop, souping those molds up.


Well Spoken ! !

[runfiverun]

if my mold drawer is any indication LEE will not be putting anybody out of business anytime soon.
yep there is A lee mold in there.
there may or may not be another one in there in the future ,but i ain't betting any money on it happening.

[dverna]

Comparing a Lee to a high end mold is like comparing a Beretta to a Perazzi.

[MT Gianni]

A bic will light a fire as well as a zippo. One has a finite life.

[BruceB]

^^^^

Yeah, but....

Equating a Lee with a Beretta is like comparing a Yugo to a Lexus.

Beretta makes very fine guns....Lee moulds are another story.

[gray wolf]

Ha !! I can't afford any of them so I ain't got a Dog in the fight, But
gas is 4 bux a Gal. Half & half is 3 bux a quart ( 12 $$ a gallon ) to tired to list any more.
Sides they are not through away molds, You pay a little more and you pass them on to your family or some poor kid down the street.
But an aside, I will say that Mi-heck must be driving a silver Bentley by now Eh.

[jmort]

Gratuitous bashing of Lee Precision...again. Their molds are an exceptional value. As with most things, you get what you pay for, and if $$$ is not an issue, why not get the best. For many/most, their molds work just fine. For around $20.00, the double cavity .358 - 158 - RF is a fantastic value and fantastic all-around bullet that will feed in just about anything, and it has a good sized meplat to boot. Good place to start and some/most never get anything other than Lee Precision molds.

[mrblue]

Thanks jmortime, I was beginning to sense a strong hate on Lee. I only use lee equipment for price/value and quality. I have no experience with any other brands. But i do see most people don't seem to use them alot. I guess it's a ford vs chevy thing, or dodge.

[felix]

It is no different than clothes worn. Some wear bluegeans everyday because they are comfortable and cheap. ... felix

[btroj]

Ok, the block of metal isn't too expensive. The machinery does the work. Key is, how long did it take to learn to operate the machinery? To program the CNC properly? Ow much money needs to be earned from each mould to pay for the cutter? For wear and tear on the machine? For rent? Profit?

Lee is a large company. The custom guys are mostly one man shops. Lee produces things in large numbers and the cost is spread over those numbers. The small guy makes fewer moulds. The costs involved are spread over a smaller number meaning cost per unit is higher.

What this means is that for a small sop to sell at Lee prices is a sure fire way to bankruptcy.

We pay the price because the quality is worth it.

[KYCaster]

So, get yerself some equipment and start sellin' molds. You can prolly make a killin'. :popcorn:


Jerry

[telebasher]

Some of us drive Fords or Chevys, some of us drive Dodges some of us may even drive BMWs or even a Porsch. Its all good, whatever cocks your hammer. But now I'm wondering why Ranch Dog chose Lee over one of the custom shops. I sure don't have any issues with my RD moulds and haven't heard any complaints about the quality of his moulds.

[felix]

Because RanchDog had no choice at the time. ... felix

[runfiverun]

he still deals with them.
he is working on a 330gr boolit for his 454 casull [levergun] with them right now.

i'm not bashing lee i like the mold i have.
if i have to replace it ,it will be with a design i like better.
i'm more worked up with the boolits design and it's limitations, than i am with mold material.
one thing i learned about molds long ago.
they only make boolits or they don't, if they don't then fix it ,, or throw it away.
and that producton molds are designed to fit just about everything,which means they don't really fit anything i have.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=jmortimer;"Gratuitous" : (definition) ...without cause or unjustified

Sorry, pard....I am justified and I do have cause.

Out there in my shed, among my hundred-plus moulds, is a decent assortment of Lees, likely a dozen or so. They are keeping company with Rapines, Saecos, NOEs, LBTs, NEIs, Lymans, Ideals and probably a few others I overlooked.

The Lee moulds do indeed produce usable bullets for me, but they are certainly not the equal of an NOE or LBT.

I DON"T EXPECT THEM TO BE! For what they are, for what I paid, they are alright.... but the NOE/LBT/etc etc are simply better.

That's not "gratuitous bashing", it's the voice of experience.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Take a couple minutes and look at accuracy cast bullet websites like the CBA. Noooooooooooobody uses Lee molds. Their big issue is that they seldom make a mold that casts round bullets.

There are two cars made in Italy that start with the initial "F". Each has four wheels and tires, and both will do the speed limit. One, of course, will do it in first gear, and trundle past 200 miles an hour. The other one gets 40mpg and has a back seat. There is also about $300,000 difference in the price tag. Women seem to find the one with no back seat much more attractive, ditto the man driving one.

You seem like a person who will be much happier with a Lee. Just don't expect much in the way of accuracy.

[MikeS]

There are lots of folks that love to bash Lee moulds (or anything else they make), but I'm not one of them. I prefer custom or semi-custom moulds from Accurate Molds, Mihec, or NOE, but when it comes to using a production mould Lee is the one I goto first. Lee has a few designs I like, so I get them. I still have some Lyman & SAECO moulds as well, but I probably have more Lee moulds than any other production mould.

It seems that for the last month or so most of my casting has been for BPCR boolits from Lyman & Lee moulds. The other day I grabbed one of Mihec moulds and started casting with it, and I realized that the Mihec mould was so far superior to either Lyman or Lee, and it was really a joy to cast with it!

There's nothing wrong with sticking with Lee equipment, in fact I'm sure Lee would appreciate it if most casters would do just that, but before proclaiming Lee to be high quality, etc. try to borrow a mould made by one of our resident custom and semi-custom makers, and see if you don't change your mind about Lee's quality. Again, I'm not bashing Lee products, only putting them where they should be. It's kind of like telling about your high quality Chevy Caprice to a Bentley owner!

[Boyscout]

I once heard a conversation about VERY expensive stereo equipment between two audiophiles and the capabilities of the same. I responded, "You are talking about audio ranges that the human ear can not discern; seems we are talking about quality only your dog can appreciate." I have a number of Lee's and have been very pleased with them. The bullets I make are capable of accuracy I can not achieve. I also have picked up an RCBS and Lyman mold because I had a need for something Lee did not make. I am happy with all of them and I won't lose much sleep if the Lee's wear out sooner. They got me started on something I really enjoy doing and at a price I could afford if I didn't want to continue with the hobby.

[Buckshot]

...........The production of machining is a very complex subject that involves much more then the mere making of a particular object. The machining center that does the work has a life expectancy. Ditto the tools that do the actual metal removal. Through experience it's known that a particular tool is good for X number of parts before it wears out or breaks. Tools generally get changed out in a production environment at 75% of their expected life. An endmill (and they do not buy clearance or closeout tooling) that costs $32 at an expected 75% production life may really only make 50% of the parts it could do. They know from experience it's better to swap out tooling at 75% and eat the loss then to bust a tool and lose the time, raw material, and OFF SCHEDULE tool replacement headaches.

In addition to a machine operator who stands by to load and unload the machine and who is earning a reasonable wage, you have a tool setter and a programmer who are both rather better paid then the operator. I'm rather well acquainted with Sierra Bullets when they were located in Santa Fe Springs, CA. They sold 2nds (bullets) by the pound and had a considerable number of 55 gallon drums containing them. The 2nds weren't the result of setting up a machine. These would have been pure scrap. But rather the results of actually running the machines ONCE SET UP for a period of time to produce a quantity of bullets for testing. Not testing as in shooting but testing as in testing weights, plus a considerable number of measurements taken to fractions of a tenth, in lots numbered into the tens of thousands. After having seen the barrels of 2nds, I was amazed they made any money at all selling bullets :-).

Lee has their moulds priced to make them a reasonable profit over and above the costs of doing business, including machine replacement, tooling costs which includes replacement (is: initial expence + setting up) scrap, projected machine maintenance and replacement. Not to mention vacation time, SS matching, disability, health insurance, electricity, etc, etc and etc ad nauseum. It's amazing to me that Lee can produce the moulds they do for what they charge for them. One benefit to them is that they've developed their block design to utilize extruded bar stock which requires minimal work to use.

.............Buckshot

[Tatume]

Lee makes molds in large batches and only markets standard models. The custom guys make molds one at a time, to order. That accounts for a large portion of the difference in price right there.

Bullets cast in Lee molds are just as good as bullets of a similar design cast in another mold. I like my LBT molds, and just purchased a new one, a 240 gr WFN GC with a nose the correct length to fit my new Freedom Arms M97. The four-cavity mold casts absolutely wonderful bullets; and although I've only had the mold two weeks, I've already shot 500 bullets and have another 500 waiting for me on the bench. That said, if a $40 Lee had been available in the right configuration (yes, $40 is what I paid for the last six-cavity mold I bought from Midway), I would have bought one.

Take care, Tom

[Case Stuffer]

I have two ,38/357 ,two 45 ,one 9MM six cavity Lee Molds. I have several one and two cavity Saeco and Lymans in 38, 45 , 44 and all of my molds cast nice Booliys and work very well. Perhaps the fact that I purchased all of mine around 40 years ago back when more Americans tool pride in their work has a little to do with it.

I started with the Saeco and Lymans for personal use and then went with the 6 cav. Lees when I went commerical with ammo and Boolits as a part time business.

[btroj]

Thank up Buckshot for an excellent example of why custom costs more.

Lee has found a way to make an acceptable product at a low cost. This allows for reasonable profit at a low retail price.
Custom makers don't buy extrusions. They don't cut corners to make a low price product. They work hard to make the best product possible, cost be darned, within reason.

Why do people buy custom moulds? Because they are nicer to work with. Easier to get to work well. And like Run said, you get the design you want, not what they decide to make.

[arkypete]

It's not that the molds are expensive, it's the dollars are almost worthless.
A few more years and we will be able to get dollars on a roll. One roll can go in the bath room and the other can hang on your belt for shopping.

Jim

[captaint]

I have some Lee molds. The ones I have kept are quite OK. The vast majority of my molds are from our custom makers, or RCBS, with some older Lymans thrown in. Mrblue mentions "you have
this CNC machine" . Yeah, you have it all right, for a (just guessing) couple hundred thousand dollars. !!!!!!!

[Wal']

Its called free enterprise :) :) :) :) the market will pay the price it can bear, if the competition can beat your price, then its..........."back to the drawing board"

[stocker]

I think you should get a quality, multi-cavity mould in your hands and see if you can identify all the machining steps that take place before a mold is completed. How many milling, drilling, tapping, insert fittings, trimming, polishing and lathe turning steps can you see beyond the cavity cutting? It's a complex little package that demands top quality machinery that runs correctly.

[Texantothecore]

The cost components for selling a mold are basically:
Material cost
Machining cost
labor cost
Administrative costs
Debt service on loans made so that they can get your product to you in less than 3 months.
Transportation cost to dealers
Margin for the dealer.
Taxes

Almost everyone starts with Lee because they are of such good value. The bullets work well and are accurate despite what a few of our cognoscenti claim.

I started reloading 7 years ago and spent a grand total of 132.00 for my first press and all the goodies to go with it, including dies for .45-70.

So it is a great deal and it could be said that Lee is responsible for the growth of the reloading industry.

Lee dominates the industry because of their value. They are also a leader in innovation and many of the cool functions on other presses and equipment are licensed to other manufcturers by Lee.

Lee's business model is that while there are a lot of great things you can do with presses and other equipment they build only what the average guy will pay for because that is their market. They have done well and will continue to do so as there is not a better deal anywhere.

As casters and reloaders develop different needs they may start looking for a more advanced outfit and definitely for more molds from the historical to the nearly absurd and Lee does not work in this area.

Most all people who start with Lee end with Lee. The group on this board is quite a bit more demanding than the average reloader so you have to take that into consideration.

There is much more to this story such as my favorite presses, the Lee Hand Press and the Lee Classic Loader, but the overall story is as I have described here.

[Doc Highwall]

Buying a custom mould is really a investment. With proper care it will last longer then you will live.

Now think about when you go shooting or hunting, it is a hobby for relaxing. The last thing I want is to be frustrated because my equipment does not work the way I want it to such as sights that do not repeat, or bullet that does not fit the throat of the gun.

Some shooters are not interested in accuracy but need a large volume of bullets like for cowboy action shooting. Then you have the other shooter who uses their gun for competition and needs all the accuracy they can get and are still looking for even smaller groups. This is where the custom mould maker comes into play, especially if they cast and shoot lead bullets. They know what is needed and how to make it.

[dakotashooter2]

Even at $100 or more a good mold will pay for itself very quickly if you do any amount of shooting. Last week I cast about 1000 boolits out of one RCBS mold. The savings in cost (cast vs commercial cast) of the bullets produced in that one casting session was equal to 1/2 of what I paid for that mold. Over the value of the mold if I compared the cost to jacketed bullets. All my moulds were bought used. The lyman and RCBS molds are still in near perfect condition. I can't say the same for the Lee molds.

[Willbird]

Well looking at the overall picture I do see something. Lee jumped in later in the game than most other "traditional" mold makers. They used a process none of them do (that I know of) and a material none of them used or use either.

The Lee mold is typically bored (maybe with a form tool?), it is made of an aluminum extrusion, it has a fairly inexpensive handle attached to every mold (for the 1-2 cavity models).

The traditional molds are made from ferrous metals, the cavities are cut with a cherry that for many years took a highly skilled person to make, and the volume probably did not warrant investing in the latest and greatest machine tools. If I had to guess I would think that the traditional makers waited out a lot of the "advancements" and kept right on doing it like they had all along.

The custom makers like Accurate Molds (I mention them because I recently bought my first custom mold from them not counting Lee group buys) use modern mfg methods (if I had to guess anyway) to produce a very fine quality "one off" product at what is a truly amazing price in your choice of materials (I chose aluminum) using domestic mfg facilities and NOT exploiting lax import regulations to land a truly amazing product quality wise in my hands in DAYS not weeks or months :-).

I'm glad to see the "new" Lee 2 cavity design....IMHO it is really a step up from the past design.

Bill

[alamogunr]

I've got a bunch of Lee 6 cavity GB molds. They make boolets that fill a niche for me. I'm sure that many here have more than I have. I've also got a few regular Lee catalog molds that also fill a specific need. When I want a more sophisticated or durable mold I go with a Mihec or NOE GB mold. Or a custom from Accurate or Mountain. Those are very few because I don't trust my design ability.

Having said all that, I don't hesitate to use the Lee molds when I want a boolet that they produce.

[Moonie]

Most of my molds are Lee but I do have Accurate Molds, Mihec, NOE and even an Ideal currently. I only have issue with one mold, it is a lee bator which was cut incorrectly. All of my other lee molds produce good boolits with the one noted exception. They are not what the others are, but they are a great value.

[newton]

I only have Lee molds. I am new to the club, so it was the easiest way in. I eventually would love to have a custom mold. I sometimes ask myself why, and the answer is just because.

I cast boolits only to be able to shoot more. Cast boolits are an means to an end. If a boolit drops from my mold, that I can then take and size(or not size), lube, and load - then I am happy, happy, happy.

The only reason, I see, to the extra cost is because of the fit and finish of the customs. We can compare the two, Lee and Custom molds, to cars, guns, computers, airplanes, women, etc all we want. But the truth of the matter is that a boolit mold is likely one of the most simplest things made - especially compared to women. You cannot compare Lee molds to custom ones like you would one car to another.

When I buy a custom mold I am going to buy one that is comparable to one of my lee molds. The only things I can honestly say that are going to be the comparing things are (as long as I use the same casting techniques) - how easy is it to cast decent boolits in a given time, what percentage are rejects, how easy they fall, how well the mold feels in the hands, and in the end how well do they shoot. It will only be just so I can say I did it.

To say one will last longer than the other is very, very subjective. Aluminum is aluminum, steel is steel, and brass is brass. Yes, there are different grades, but unless your comparing stainless steel with some pot metal steel, the metals are not that different in terms of how they cast boolits when comparing two of the same kinds of metals.

I think the difference is that Lee understands that some people are not wanting/needing a mold that looks and feels different, as long as a boolit can be made that can be shot. The custom mold makers simply put more time and energy into a mold that looks and feels better. The one major thing that has already been said is Lee only has X amount to choose from. If you ask for a custom mold, they will make it, but it will cost as much as a custom mold from someone else.

In the end, I think that the closest you can come to comparing mold makers with something else that we all might have some knowledge of is knives. If you want something to cut with usually you are not going to go to the local knife shop and buy a $200 knife. However, if you are looking for a specific shape and size of a knife, and are looking to use one for a particular reason, then sometimes you are going to spend more on one than another. I have always bought cheap knifes. They cut. They work. But one day I decided I wanted a particular knife, made from a particular steel, and guess what it is fantastic. But also guess what, while I still use that knife, I also still use others, and still have ones that are years old and still cut when I need them.

I don't think that its "you get what you pay for" as far as molds are concerned, but is more "you pay for what you get".

All in all, I just wanted to jump in the conversation. All this really does not mean a hill of beans unless you have a gun to shoot boolits out of.

[fredj338]

Gratuitous bashing of Lee Precision...again. Their molds are an exceptional value. As with most things, you get what you pay for, and if $$$ is not an issue, why not get the best. For many/most, their molds work just fine. For around $20.00, the double cavity .358 - 158 - RF is a fantastic value and fantastic all-around bullet that will feed in just about anything, and it has a good sized meplat to boot. Good place to start and some/most never get anything other than Lee Precision molds.
It's not bashing if it's true & you admit in the same breath "you get what you pay for". Sure, get a good Lee mold, it will make bullets. Getting a good one is the trick & even then, design & execution have a lot to desire. I have Lee molds, will rpobably buy them again, but I do understand what I am buying & it is a Yugo.

[btroj]

I don't bash Lee but I like a good custom mould too.
I buy moulds based on bullet design, not maker. Lee doesn't make moulds in many styles I want so I go elsewhere.
Don't confuse desire for nicer with bashing Lee.
Just because I like Heineken doesn't mean I thumb my nose at people who drink PBR.

[jimb16]

I've cast thousands of boolits with some of my Lee molds and they are still going strong. BUT< I've also got a couple that I wouldn't hit a dog in the tail with. Quality and milage will vary.

[chajohnson]

Do people still drink PBR?

I've got a couple of, "go to," 2-cavity Lee 45 ACP molds. I've. cast thousands of boolets with them over the last 30 years. They're a pleasure to use & what they produce are accurate. I've also got an expensive Saeco 4-cavity mould that makes the most accurate 38 wadcutter boolets my PPC custom gun has ever shot, and does so in a hurry. All of these molds cast beautifully with the proper alloy and are fun to use. Will the Seaco outlast the Lee molds? Probably. Who knows? Who cares; as long as it outlast me. The fact is they all meet my needs. I really don't care what a mould cost (within reason) as long as it does what I want it to do with little difficulty. Life's too short, otherwise.

[runfiverun]

ummm, aluminum isn't just alumnim.
and steel isn't just mehanite,and brass ain't all the same.

[PuppetZ]

Just to add my 2 cents, FWIW, I began this whole casting enterprise a short year ago. Like many others before, I went the cheap route with the Lee mould for an '06. Liked it. A few months later I went straight to an NOE because they had a design I liked and the RCBS's and lyman's were out of the question because of availability to me, or rather lack therof. The two molds cannot even compare as far as look and apparant machining quality goes. I also understand that a small run will cost more per mold simply because setup and production cost for 100 units or 1000 units is almost the same, save for material cost of course.

Where I wish to digress is when it comes to easiness of use. I, for one, have a very hard time getting my NOE moulds to work well. The main quirk and it's really that, just a quirk, is that they dont deem to want to heat up and I get very low retention rates because of fillout defects. Now dont get me wrong, I like my NOE's molds. They are well made, very precisely cut and of good facture and appearance and are of bullets designs otherwise note available anywhere else, but they are also temperamental tools that you must treat right for them to give good results. The Lee's are just easier.

Of course a Ferrari will get you anywhere faster than a Fiat, but the slower Fiat is more forgiving of what I'd qualify of beginner's error.

Of course, YMMV.

PuppetZ

[olafhardt]

Virtually all my equipment is lee. I bought it and it worked. How could it be any better? I get used to things. I did once buy another brand of dies, they were different and adjusted differently, don't use them. What I want to do Lee's do.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

The cost is not the metal. As a machinist I can tell you that good tooling is expensive and machine time will average $80/hr. A quality finish takes time with slower passes. Then you have the quality control, with high end equipment to ensure your mold is correct down to .0005" or tighter. As far as people, you have the machinist, engineer, programmer, maintenance, qc specialist, assembly worker, and many more supporting staff. Figure shop cost (full running cost / machine) to be ~$1000 to ~$1500 per hr. Aluminum is a much lower cost operation and Lee has larger tolerances with a less finished end product. Me I got lee as I can make my own too but I had to see how I liked casting. Now I can make my own as I love casting.

[newton]

Do people still drink PBR?

A lot do...while casting with lee molds...:drinks:

[newton]

ummm, aluminum isn't just alumnim.
and steel isn't just mehanite,and brass ain't all the same.

I would love to hear the makeup of the different aluminum that is used in one mold manufacturer versus another. Is Accurate's aluminum so much different than Lee's? What are the discernible differences, not in the way the mold is made, but the type of aluminum it is made from?

This is one downside I see to the Lee line. I would like to try out some brass and steel molds, as cheap as possible, but the cheapest in the business (Lee) just does not make them.

Really, that's all it boils down too, Lee is the absolute cheapest mold company there is and so they get the reputation that comes with it.

[gefiltephish]

I have enjoy working with my NOE, Accurate and MP molds. I cannot say the same for the Lee.

Even though I swore I would never purchase another Lee mold, I just recently bought a 2 cav Lee 148 wad cutter mold for my wife to try out the bullet design. It's the "old" slotted block and the only 2 cav Lee I have, but was only 20 bucks. She likes the bullet, but I hate using the mold. I just ordered an equivalent 5 cav from NOE for $97. The Lee served it's purpose so will probably wind up on ebay or the classifieds here.

I don't have a gazillion molds like many here, but I have quite a few now, all of them have Lee handles attached. I'm not in love with Lee handles - they're cheep @ 11.50 ea. I can't say for sure, but I imagine that those costing 3 times as much probably don't need to have the wooden handles drilled and wired to keep 'em from falling off, or that I'd have to take a hammer to the occasional one to straighten it so the molds close properly (yes, I have 2 that came that way). But hey, the Lee's are only 11.50 so if I have to throw one or two away out of frustration it's no big deal because they're "such a good value". Next time I'll try out an MP handle.

I have lots of Lee stuff that I DO like, the LCT as one example. I just can't get along with Lee molds.

[cbrick]

This is one downside I see to the Lee line. I would like to try out some brass and steel molds, as cheap as possible, but the cheapest in the business (Lee) just does not make them.

Really, that's all it boils down too, Lee is the absolute cheapest mold company there is and so they get the reputation that comes with it.

This isn't rocket science, take it as LEE bashing if that makes you feel warm & fuzzy if you like but I look at it as experience.

I've had LEE molds and will never buy another. Why? Because I don't buy any tool whether it's to work on my car or my house or to cast bullets to see how much time, effort & frustration it will take to get it to do what I bought it to do. I have 70+ molds and could well have 2-3 times that number if cost were the only consideration as opposed to saving up for a quality tool that is a pleasure to use.

I didn't cast my very first bullet to see how cheap I could do it and I haven't cast a single bullet since then to see how cheap it could be done. To some "how cheap" is the only consideration and NOTHING else matters. If that's your thing fine, have at it. I cast to get a boolit that I made with my own two hands that will be the boolit that I want and perform as I want it to. None of that has anything to do with how cheap can I do it. I get a great deal of satisfaction & relaxation from my time casting & the frustration I've experienced with LEE molds do not give me either. I'm not rich but for my money I'll save up and get a tool that will be a pleasure to use as opposed to how cheap is it.

Ok, let the LEE fans start with how snotty & uppity I am & how great LEE is.

Rick

[newton]

Originally Posted by newton
This is one downside I see to the Lee line. I would like to try out some brass and steel molds, as cheap as possible, but the cheapest in the business (Lee) just does not make them.

Really, that's all it boils down too, Lee is the absolute cheapest mold company there is and so they get the reputation that comes with it.

This isn't rocket science, take it as LEE bashing if that makes you feel warm & fuzzy if you like but I look at it as experience.

I've had LEE molds and will never buy another. Why? Because I don't buy any tool whether it's to work on my car or my house or to cast bullets to see how much time, effort & frustration it will take to get it to do what I bought it to do. I have 70+ molds and could well have 2-3 times that number if cost were the only consideration as opposed to saving up for a quality tool that is a pleasure to use.

I didn't cast my very first bullet to see how cheap I could do it and I haven't cast a single bullet since then to see how cheap it could be done. To some "how cheap" is the only consideration and NOTHING else matters. If that's your thing fine, have at it. I cast to get a boolit that I made with my own two hands that will be the boolit that I want and perform as I want it to. None of that has anything to do with how cheap can I do it. I get a great deal of satisfaction & relaxation from my time casting & the frustration I've experienced with LEE molds do not give me either. I'm not rich but for my money I'll save up and get a tool that will be a pleasure to use as opposed to how cheap is it.

Ok, let the LEE fans start with how snotty & uppity I am & how great LEE is.

Rick

Re-read my posts and highlight where I ever said people were "LEE bashing". I do not feel "warm and fuzzy". Please do not put words into my mouth...err...posts that are not there. I have never said anything negative about anyone, or any other mold maker. I think its great that there are other mold makers. I think that they charge a decent price for the product they produce. I think that it costs more to produce their molds, just like it would cost more for LEE to produce a custom mold. Re-read my posts and do not make assumptions.

Just because one person has a frustrating experience with a LEE mold does not mean that the mold is inferior to another. The OP was asking why it costs more for other mold makers, and there are very VALID reasons why they cost more.

Its good to have a discussion on things like this. But its ridiculous when people start fighting and making incorrect statements.

[cbrick]

I made no incorrect statements. I used your post as an example of - Your words (but the cheapest in the business (Lee) just does not make them.) and (Really, that's all it boils down too, Lee is the absolute cheapest mold company there is).

Those are your words and I merely used them to explain why I don't use LEE molds so please explain my incorrect statements. Plus it wasn't meant to bash you but rather highlight my points.

Rick

[jmort]

"Ok, let the LEE fans start with how snotty & uppity I am & how great LEE is"

O.K. - you are "snotty and uppity" - seriously though, cbick you're a good "clinger brother" stuck here in California with me, but, specifically, if someone points out that Lee Precision molds are out of spec by .003 or some other specific criticism, that is fair. Junk catagorical throw-away comments like Lee Precision mold are "junk" or whatever, serve no useful purpose. There is good reason Lee Precision is number one - best product for the least $$$. Lee Prescision has done more for more reloaders than any other company. God Bless Richard Lee and Lee Precision, a great family company selling "Made in the USA products." And as always thank you Lee Precision for sponsering this site.

[newton]

You stated "take it as LEE bashing if that makes you feel warm & fuzzy"

I never said anyone was LEE bashing and you insinuated that I did.

Insinuated past participle, past tense of in·sin·u·ate (Verb)
Verb

Suggest or hint (something negative) in an indirect and unpleasant way.
Maneuver oneself into (a position of favor or office) by subtle manipulation: "she insinuated herself into management".

You used my words, followed by your statement. That is, by definition, insinuating. You could have easily left my statement out, which had nothing to say about.

Now, maybe I assumed that you were using my statements in a negative way. If that assumption is wrong, then I apologize. However, when people quote someone, they are doing so for very specific reasons. You quoted me, then immediately said something that can be construed negatively by others. If you were quoting me for an example of what you thought also, the quote would normally be followed up with the indication of such.

[Love Life]

I have Lee moulds. One is the 358-125-RF. It is a 2 cavity I have had for years. It casts decent boolits.

My other Lee mould is the 452-255-RF. It is a 2 cavity I have had for years. It casts decent boolits.

To get them to cast decent boolits required polishing the cavities, general Lee-menting, and I have to close the mould on a flat surface to ensure alignment. I do not like the shallow lube grooves on the 452-255-RF.

To get my NOE, RCBS, and Mihec moulds to cast nicely filled out and round I have to: Take them out of the box, clean them with dish soap, heat them up, and cast boolits.

The difference is very easy to see in both the ease of casting and the quality of boolits dropped. IMO the custom moulds are worth every penny more than the cost of the Lee.

I have a bunch of Lee equipment on my benches, but I only have 2 of their moulds with no plans to buy more. Not that Lee is junk, but they are not the best.

[GLL]

Any insight, what am I missing or are people just fools

Some of us are "just fools" ! :) :)

http://www.fototime.com/8F95495D13D5995/orig.jpg

Jerry

[cbrick]

"Ok, let the LEE fans start with how snotty & uppity I am & how great LEE is"

O.K. - you are "snotty and uppity" - seriously though, cbick you're a good "clinger brother" stuck here in California with me, but, specifically, if someone points out that Lee Precision molds are out of spec by .003 or some other specific criticism, that is fair. Junk catagorical throw-away comments like Lee Precision mold are "junk" or whatever, serve no useful purpose. There is good reason Lee Precision is number one - best product for the least $$$. Lee Prescision has done more for more reloaders than any other company. God Bless Richard Lee and Lee Precision, a great family company selling "Made in the USA products." And as always thank you Lee Precision for sponsering this site.

No longer stuck in Komifornia, I escaped a year ago & moved back to America.

I never used the word "junk" and I never mentioned any LEE tool other than the molds. I stated very clearly that the molds are not for me and why they aren't. I never had a single one that wasn't aggravating at best. Never have I said a word about LEE reloading tools in this thread or any other.

Rick

[Ben]

Gee, how much does one of those made of 24K like yours cost Jerry ? ?

[cbrick]

Ok newton, if you want to take my post as a personal slam go right ahead. It changes nothing.

As I told you already, I merely used your words to highlight what I wanted to say. If that is offensive to you then don't use those words.

Rick

[fishhawk]

Oh well I knew it was going to happens sooner or later. Looks like the cabin fever is starting.......

[kidmma]

My , we have strayed from the origonal post. I think we've hit about everything. I'm not sure I remember what it was about. Does anyone remember what a Yugo or Fiat was? I knew someone who owned a Fiat back in the 80s. It was a fairly good car for it's time. We have dated ourselves, eh?

[felix]

The best European cars have never seen our shores. Prolly the best car I have ever been in was a Fiat. The style was a Caddy type, and the driver was a high dollar escort type of person who was THE last "cabby" at the airport after our flight arrived at 3:00 AM Rome time. He took us into town, 50 miles away at no less than a 100 mph. I did not feel ONE bump in ANY direction. By the way, Enos Farrari owns and drives that same car brand and model for himself, the cabbie told me. Also, all the Fiat cars made in Spain are called Siats. ... felix

My wife just told me the cabby's name was Marco Russo. He was contracted to be our guide (and driver) in Europe during the late 60's and early 70's.. He knew the several languages and countries we visited very well. ... felix

[newton]

Ok newton, if you want to take my post as a personal slam go right ahead. It changes nothing.

As I told you already, I merely used your words to highlight what I wanted to say. If that is offensive to you then don't use those words.

Rick

No offense taken now. This helps clarify things immensely. My apologies for assuming.

[GLL]

Gee, how much does one of those made of 24K like yours cost Jerry ? ?

Ben:

Let's see....$1600 per Troy once + Tom's lathe time = more than a LEE 6-cavity ! :)

Jerry

[finishman2000]

Gratuitous bashing of Lee Precision...again. Their molds are an exceptional value. As with most things, you get what you pay for, and if $$$ is not an issue, why not get the best. For many/most, their molds work just fine. For around $20.00, the double cavity .358 - 158 - RF is a fantastic value and fantastic all-around bullet that will feed in just about anything, and it has a good sized meplat to boot. Good place to start and some/most never get anything other than Lee Precision molds.

some value..... i broke down after swearing never again a lee product and bought their 12ga slug mold. after the 5th or 6th rhe mold wouldn'y come back togther without hitting it to close. i let it cool then threw it into the garbage where it belongs. I have h&g molds that are older than me and are as new. THAT is a value!

[500MAG]

I have casted with mostly Lee molds ( over 10 molds) and a couple Lyman molds for over 20 years. I casted with one of the NOE molds yesterday that I purchased and I have to say it was fantastic. No comparison. I will be buying more!

[cbrick]

No offense taken now. This helps clarify things immensely. My apologies for assuming.

And besides, your post that I quoted and highlighted with bold text . . . I agree with you completely which is why I quoted you.

Rick

[kweidner]

I have accurate, NOE, Lyman, Lee, Corbin, and soon BT sniper. Lee are OK IMHO. I don't like the way they align but you get what you pay for. I have heard the new alignment system is nice. I can't say. My Lyman had to be lapped to drop MY lead to the proper diameter. The Corbin is frustrating in that it is awful big and one hole will not cooperate. Thus my incoming BT sniper. Accurate and NOE cast my material to the size I want with no manipulation, true to size and weight. That is what you pay for in the custom lines. Custom sizes, custom designs, and great turn around times for me anyway. Tom has had my order to my door in a week. NOE happened to have an overstock on a HP design I wanted. Same thing. In my custom throated revolvers, I need custom sizes for the boolit to fit properly. Accurate and NOE get the nod. If I were plinking, it might be a different story. However, I never plink....I intend to hit what I aim at.

[jonas302]

Anybody ever wonder why Lee doesn't raise there prices? They would still be the cheapest and could spend more time on the molds. Even Lee haters have to appreciate them they bring a lot to the game and keep other company's prices in check

[David2011]

Since I cast and shoot a LOT of .40 I bought a 175 grain truncated cone 6 cavity Lee mold. After getting very frustrated with it I bought a 4 cavity 180 grain Lyman. The 4 cavity Lyman will produce as many boolits in my hands as the 6 cavity Lee because it hold a more even temperature with less effort and drops theboolits more easily than the Lee. Do a search on this website for Leementing. That will explain the difference beween inexpensive molds and the rest. Good molds don't have to be fixed after you buy them new.

David