Some more surplus Tubal 2000 tests Tuesday

[Buckshot]

........The previous test in the 30-06 of 23.0 H4198 and 23.0grs of T-2K proved in that instance to be exactly the same. Since the powder was produced by Nobel in France, shooting buddy Ron said, "Those Frogs stole our 4198!"

However a further test with previous H4198 data will be done with the T2K in the 8x56R (4 increasing loads, 40 rounds).

7x57 with 4 increasing loads (20 rounds)

45-90 with 4 increasing loads (20 rounds)

I expect it to prove the same again and the T2K @ $61/8lb is a buy, compared to H4198 @ $108/8lb. I mean, as close as I can figure it's a better deal.

.............Buckshot

[felix]

Buckshot, you'd think so, but Nobel was the father of DuPont. The latter name is really the former name over here in the states. Did you not know that Dupont was the VERY FIRST corporation listed on any exchange in the US? ... felix

[BlueMoon]

I have been following this comparison of the Tubal and H4198, although I'm a fan of RL-7 for a lot of my cast bullet shooting. I do find good loads with 4198 in everything except the 30/30.

I thought Nobel was that place in Sweden that makes the RL powders for Alliant, or maybe that's the prize? Also remember something about Bofors, Bofurs or something like that.

I ate a cheap can of pears the other day that came from Wmart and it said make in China.

Bill

edit: Also interested about the 7X57 results as that should be close to my 7-08 that I have three molds for but none any heavier than 145grns.

[felix]

The old powder companies are all interconnected anyway, all started by the same related folks from different locations. Keep in mind that Hercules is the double base powder division of DuPont. Well, alliant is the new kid on the block in stock manipulation, but I bet the same "powder" folks are intact. ... felix

[carpetman]

I bet Nobel couldnt get a job with Salvation Army collecting money at Christmas.

[Scrounger]

I bet Nobel couldnt get a job with Salvation Army collecting money at Christmas.

Right. He'd probably have to join the Air Farce to keep from starving...

[JohnH]

Where is this powder to be found???

[Buckshot]

Where is this powder to be found???

Graf & Son has it.

..........Buckshot

[Buckshot]

............I found my 30-06 data from last Tuesday :D Shot in a M1917. FC brass, WLRP, Ly 311284 + dacron. Charge, 23.0 grs:

H4198 ............................ T2K
High: 1697.0...................1696.3
Low : 1676.7...................1682.0
SD: 7.6...........................5.7
ES: 20.3..........................14.3
AVRG: 1687.3..................1687.5

Today's data:

45-90 data. Sharps, 28" bbl.

The H4198 data was fired 2-97 using the Lee 459-405F and was paper patched with a card wad under the boolit + dacron. OAL 2.985"

The T2K was fired with the RCBS 45-405 and dacron. OAL 2.988"

H4198 ............30.0 grains........ T2K
SD: 7.8 ................................. 12.5
ES: 20.2 ............................... 34.2
AVRG: 1372 ........................... 1417

H4198 ...........32.0 grains..........T2K
SD: 3.9 ..................................5.4
ES: 9.7 ..................................14.4
AVRG: 1432 ............................1475

H4198 ...........34.0 grains..........T2K
SD: 10.6 ................................12.4
ES: 25.6 ................................28.0
AVRG: 1590 ............................1563

H4198 ...........36.0 grains..........T2K
SD: 11.0 ................................16.2
ES: 26.2.................................38.6
AVRG: 1659 ............................1657

8x56R. M1895 Steyr carbine 19.5" bbl

H4198 data fired 12-04 Oldfeller boolit 242gr, Javalina Lube, Graf brass, WLRP, no dacron, tipped up. OAL: 3.035" Roll crimp into 2nd lube groove.

T2K data Oldfeller same boolit lot & components as above except dacron and high temp green lube.

H4198 ................23.0 grains .........T2K
SD: 8.9 .......................................24.2
ES: 24.3 ......................................85.3
AVRG: 1521 ..................................1537

H4198 ................24.0 grains ..........T2K
SD: 7.7 ........................................ 21.6
ES: 20.1 ........................................65.6
AVRG: 1584 ...................................1605

H4198 ...............25.0 grains ...........T2K
SD: 18.4 ......................................10.0
ES: 46.9 ......................................35.7
AVRG: 1621 ..................................1635

H4198 ...............26.0 grains ...........T2K
SD: 11.4 ...................................... 8.1
ES: 27.6 ...................................... 28.4
AVRG: 1682 .................................. 1675

7x57 Mauser. M1908 Brazilian Mauser. 29" bbl

H4198 data fired 9-95. Tumble lube and Tamarack lube. OAL 3.157" WW bras and primers. Dacron

T2K data, Tumble lube and Javalina. OAL 3.177". WW brass and primers. Dacron

H4198 .................21.0 grains ............T2K
SD: 5.1............................................8.4
ES: 11.2 .........................................20.9
AVRG: 1816 .....................................1793

H4198 .................22.0 grains ............T2K
SD: 6.9 ...........................................9.1
ES: 16.2 ..........................................22.4
AVRG: 1875 ......................................1870

H4198 .................23.0 grains .............T2K
SD: 0 .............................................. 10.4
ES: 0 .............................................. 23.5
AVRG: 0 .......................................... 1917

H4198 .................24.0 grains .............T2K
SD: 0 .............................................. 16.7
ES: 0 .............................................. 34.2
AVRG: ............................................. 1979

The "0" data above is because I thought the next page of data in my range book was more H4198 data, but it was surplus IMR4198, which is slower then IMR3031. That data was meaningless here. The T2K data was listed in case anyone should have similar loads for their 7x57 to extrapolate.

So there it is enough different case types and sizes along with bores to pretty well show me that H4198 and Nobel Tubal-2000 are very similar if not the same load for load. I think statisticly they show what might be considered lot to lot variation for the same powder.

If you were loading something right at the top for book data with H4198, naturally you would reduce your starting charge of this T2K and work up. For moderate pressure loads shown for H4198 (such as these above), you could use that as data for the T2K.

This T2K burns very nice and clean. I showed Deputy Al the bore of the Sharps after firing the 20 rounds and he asked if I'd been shooting paper patched boolits. It was as shiney as a new dime. No powder dust or lube smudging at all. If you have any use for a 4198 type burn rate powder, I think you should check this surplus powder out.

.................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

This Tubal 2000 stuff looks like the real deal, all right. 4198 powder for around $10/lb. appeals to my cheap nature in no small way. Rick's accuracy results seemed pretty consistent with his usual rifle work, too.

Dunno if he used Tubal during the Burrito Match, but everyone in attendance used something better than I used--I got creamed--so order in the world has been restored after last week's brief departure from reality. Not the rifle's fault, the loads used in the 9.3 x 62 were shooting under 1" at 50 yards. Total operator headspace, this time.

Pardon my off-topic ramblings, but I did run some full-power j-word loads from the 9.3 after the conclusion of festivities today. 50 of them, in order to have some empties to install Nosler Partitions into. These consisted of both Speer 270's and Nosler Ballistic Tips (250 grainers). Like every Ballistic Tip I've tried in every caliber, these shot VERY well from the CZ. Kinda made the Speers look stoopid. I had already established that I was having a bad shooting day, but the BT's sort of made things better--and rang the 200 meter gong pretty consistently from the bags. So did the 270's, for that matter--but the gong is fair-sized, so maybe that's not a real challenge from the bench. Of course, any sort of bench work with 270 grain bullets at 2300 FPS in an eight-pound rifle will be exhilarating, and adding in the flies trying to land in your eyes as you're squeezing off shots--it was a bit of work.

One last thing--I had removed the scope and mounts from the CZ last time I fired the rifle. These are the CZ rings, and the company makes some modest claims of repeatability upon removal and replacement of the scope after sight-in. In this case, the claims were confirmed--less than 1" of impact shift at 50 yards, and the rifle whacked the 200 meter gong every time I tried it, with exception of two called shots due to operator error offhand.

[BruceB]

"...the gong is fair-sized..." That's OK, Al, an elk is "fair-sized" too!

"...bench work with 270 grain bullets at 2300 in an eight pound rifle will be exhilarating..." Boy-oh-boy... if that's exhilarating, I'll let you shoot my .404 from the bench. 400 at 2400 in an eight-pounder will give y'all something to get excited about (once you climb back onto the stool)!

Glad to hear the CZ is doing as expected. I just saw a report that they are now being sold here in .404, as well as some of the more-common LARGE calibers, like up to and including the .505. I can't warm up to the European stock style, although it's comfortable at the shoulder. The American version LOOKS better, but I wonder if it handles as well?

"Tubal 2000" sounds like some shyster's blurb about a newly updated feminine plumbing procedure, sorry 'bout that. 4198 works so well for me that I'm gonna have to break down and get some, I guess, in spite of the froggy origin and the lousy name. Maybe I'll just label mine "Gallic 4198".

[onceabull]

Reading re: Deputy AL getting off 50 Full Power Jxxxxxd 9.3x62 mm loads from the Bench.. geez, sounds like some are taking this elk hunting game real seriously !! I'm having mixed results, Partner & I notified of successful draw in cow Elk,Seven Devils( Id.unit 18) 10 days later he calls to tell he's diagnosed with Leukemia, chemotherapy ending just before hunting starts. Said something along the lines of"guess you will have to do the heavy work this fall"...already recruiting from the JV team.!! Onceabull

[Johnch]

I just looked at Graf & son and could not find Tubal 2000
Where is it listed ? Or am I just blind ?

Johnch

[Buckshot]

I just looked at Graf & son and could not find Tubal 2000
Where is it listed ? Or am I just blind ?

Johnch

...........It was in their catalog along with the rest of their powder. Dunno about their website.

............Buckshot

EDIT: Just checked their online listings and also closeouts and it's not shown there either. Just call'em up I guess? Maybe I got the last 4 jugs :D?