bad cleaning experience

[canuck4570]

I Canuck here .... the one who was suppose to throw away his Ruger no 1 in the carbage because no matter what I did I did not get accuracy (bedding.... free floting the barrel.... change lube.... high and low velocity I got leading) well I found the problem .....
It was the cleaning agent that I use to clean the barrel.... Yes this was it ..... last year I found out that ISOL a cleaning agent that mechanic use to clean part did realy get the lead out easely from the barrel .....so after 5 to 10 shots when the rifle started to shoot bad even at low velocicy it was easy to remove the lead wich I hab baddly in the bore.... so I change lube tried this and that and no good result and I told myself I am lucky to have this ISOL to clean a few patches down the bore and that was it.... last time at the range I forgot the ISOL and I use regular bore cleaner and thant shot my usual hunting load (34 gr. of H4198 behind a 475 NEI and proceded to shot .... superb accuracy I was up to 20 round and stil accuracy so I told myself lets clean the rifle and to my suprise no lead just powder residue... shot again whith diferent bullet no gaz check and gaz check and the same result... so mystefied I whent home got the ISOL and went back to the range and cleaned the rifle with ISOL and the problems started again.... cleanied the rifle with regular bore cleaner and superb accuacy and no leadind...this is told to you cast bullets shooter so you want have the same agravation that I have.... stay away from ISOL it must be to dry for the barrel because each time that I have used it the patch used to swkeek down the barrel ...... Canuck here have a good time....yes forgot something tried the same thing with my Tikka super varmint ... cleaned it with ISOL and the same result even with jacketed bullet....

[Blammer]

wow! thanks for the info!

[Bullshop]

Whodathunkit ???!!!???
BIC/BS

[44man]

Not good to remove all oil from the bore, bore cleaners like Hoppe's, etc always leave a film on the steel. Too much oil is no good either so the bore needs wiped before shooting. To degrease it to bare steel just makes problems.

[9.3X62AL]

Not surprising to me at all, Canuck. I think these "super-cleaners" all get metal not only CLEAN--but DRY, as well. Clean may be all right, but dry and dessicated IS NOT.

While I'm not a huge believer in a lot of the FBI-derived terminal ballistics rain-dance, their "hard science" firearms & ballistics-related stuff is pretty sound. Dating back to 1983, the material in my rangemaster school from FBI stridently discouraged use of Brake Kleen or similar materials for barrel-cleaning purposes--DO NOT, PERIOD. Their lab work showed that doing so desiccated the barrel metal--decreased accuracy--and decreased service life. The oil-based powder solvents like Hoppe's #9 or Break-Free over time "seasoned" the bore, much like a cast iron frying pan is through repeated use. Use of Brake-Kleen on action components for purposes of cleaning off gunk was OK, as long as some oil-based solvent/lubricant coating was re-established on the cleaned metal. FBI's thrust was to use Break-Free for all its advertised purposes--"CLP"--Clean, Lubricate, Protect. I've followed this regimen since its presentation 24 years ago, and nothing I've seen since that time argues or suggests against it.

[Bass Ackward]

Yep. I use Bullplate lube after cleaning now. I patch it in followed by a lose dry patch. No more need for those low velocity preppers or LLA painted on the nose of the first few, etc.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Not surprising to me at all, Canuck. I think these "super-cleaners" all get metal not only CLEAN--but DRY, as well. Clean may be all right, but dry and dessicated IS NOT.

While I'm not a huge believer in a lot of the FBI-derived terminal ballistics rain-dance, their "hard science" firearms & ballistics-related stuff is pretty sound. Dating back to 1983, the material in my rangemaster school from FBI stridently discouraged use of Brake Kleen or similar materials for barrel-cleaning purposes--DO NOT, PERIOD. Their lab work showed that doing so desiccated the barrel metal--decreased accuracy--and decreased service life. The oil-based powder solvents like Hoppe's #9 or Break-Free over time "seasoned" the bore, much like a cast iron frying pan is through repeated use. Use of Brake-Kleen on action components for purposes of cleaning off gunk was OK, as long as some oil-based solvent/lubricant coating was re-established on the cleaned metal. FBI's thrust was to use Break-Free for all its advertised purposes--"CLP"--Clean, Lubricate, Protect. I've followed this regimen since its presentation 24 years ago, and nothing I've seen since that time argues or suggests against it.

Wonder if the Brake Kleen old wives tale was related to Layne Simpson's wild-eyed advocacy of Mercury Outboard Quicksilver Top Engine Cleaner or some such about twenty years ago. I tried it, and found it to be suspiciously similar to ordinary spray carb cleaner. It was very difficult to shove through a bore, and not particularly conducive to one-hole groups. Maybe Layne got a cut from Mercury? Oops, there I go again, badmouthing a gun writer. The last time I did that another gun writer ran me off a board! I did learn to never accept cleaning advice from anybody named Simpson, not even Homer himself.

[**oneshot**]

I always run a lubed patch down the bore after cleaning, and then a lubed patch followed by a dry patch before shooting my cast boolits. I carried this over from muzzleloader and it works great.

[kodiak1]

Yes clean then lube the barrel.
Ken

[no34570]

Ummmm
Pardon my:confused: stupid question,but what is ISOL[smilie=1:
no34570

[DeanoBeanCounter]

[smilie=1: Sure enough. When I was in the National Guard, one guy got some spray on carburetor cleaner and sprayed down his M16. It took all coating off the bolt carrier (what ever it's coated with) and a lot of bluing off the receivers. The bolt carrier didn't slide to easy either.
no34570, there's no such thing as a stupid question. :twisted:
Somebody think of a better word than stupid to use.
Deano
:coffee:

[no34570]

[smilie=1: Sure enough. When I was in the National Guard, one guy got some spray on carburetor cleaner and sprayed down his M16. It took all coating off the bolt carrier (what ever it's coated with) and a lot of bluing off the receivers. The bolt carrier didn't slide to easy either.
no34570, there's no such thing as a stupid question. :twisted:
Somebody think of a better word than stupid to use.
Deano
:coffee:

How's????,my lack of knowledge then?[smilie=1:
no34570

[canuck4570]

Ummmm
Pardon my:confused: stupid question,but what is ISOL[smilie=1:
no34570
ISOL is the cleaner use in garage when cleaning parts of cars... they usualy have a tub with circulating Isol comming out of a fawcet just like in your kitchen and all the dirt grease and so on is circulated by a pump throught a filter that cleans the ISOL and circulated again throught the fawcet .....

[no34570]

ISOL is the cleaner use in garage when cleaning parts of cars... they usualy have a tub with circulating Isol comming out of a fawcet just like in your kitchen and all the dirt grease and so on is circulated by a pump throught a filter that cleans the ISOL and circulated again throught the fawcet .....

Ohhh,thanks for that it was new to me:)
no34570

[DeanoBeanCounter]

:-D Thanks no34570. Now I don't have to ask that ...... question. I learned too. :drinks: I always try to be knowledge hungry. Now that someone has found a proper way to use ISOL, I might decide to try it myself.
Deano

[Dale53]

I think that too often we tend to jump on any wild idea out there - if we add the "low cost" ingredient, then it is "anchors aweigh!". Sometimes that can lead to serious firearm damage (in the nineties it was the combination of "Sweets 7.62 and Shooters Choice that led to a good many damaged match barrels). Unless you are an organic chemist, I suggest that you use long time commercial products. The one exception that I make in cleaning materials is I freely use "Ed;s Red" (mixed exactly as ED Harris details) as he DID have a chemist looking over his shoulder when he put that mixture together. Further, Ed's experience with the firearms industry was extensive.

Case in point: I had a good friend that was building a .22 Stevens Single shot up for use. He had it barreled and had polished the entire barreled action and it was ready for bluing. I had told him of the benefits of Ed's Red and he mixed some up but he desired to "save money" by using "pump K-1 Kerosene" instead of canned K-1 (vertified pure). Pump kerosene may have nearly anything in it and is known to contain acid products. He covered the barreled action with "not quite Ed's Red" and left it overnight. When he woke up the next morning, his carefully polished barreled action was COVERED with rust. He didn't save much, did he? The key is to do as ED tells you to do (use GOOD materials when you mix it).

Same fellow had a mutual acquaintance suggest that an automotive oil additive with microfine moly treat the barrel on his excellent shooting .22 single shot. When he was finished with the treatment (as prescribed) the rifle went from ½" groups at fifty yards to six inch groups. He thought that he had ruined that barrel. I suggested that he keep shooting. 500 rounds later the accuracy returned. Slicker is not necessarily better, it seems.

Moral is to be careful. It is dangerous out there:twisted:

Dale53
P.S. Al;s suggestion to use Break Free is a GOOD suggestion. I found that it extends the cleaning cycle with my .45's significantly (from 100 rounds between cleaning with normally decent dedicated gun cleaning products to 300 rounds with Break Free). The military likes it also. rdm

[felix]

Dale, you now know the difference between sweet crude (expensive) and the others which are sour with sulfur (cheap, requiring mucho refining). ... felix