40 S&W in a 1911 45 ACP

[philthephlier]

40 S&W

I have a short story to tell about 40 S&W loads mistakenly put into a 45 ACP 1911. I was helping a friend decide what handgun model and caliber to buy. He was a very experienced shotgunner but very little experience with handguns. I had him shooting my 1911, my Beretta 96 Brigadier, a Walther 9MM, and a Model 10 Revolver. He was doing very well. He is a retired major league pitcher and now a stock broker, so no dummy by any stretch. If anybody was the dummy that day it was me. I decided to leave him alone for 5 minutes while I hit the rest room and told him to shoot whatever he wanted while I was gone. He had fired each gun several times that day and it wasn't his first trip to get the feel of handgun shooting. While I was gone he loaded 5 rounds of 40 S&W in the 1911 by mistake. A 40S&W cartridge will slide right down the bore of a 45 barrel. But when he racked the slide, the first 40 cartridge was sent down into battery being held only by the extractor and held tightly enough that the gun fired when he dropped the hammer. And the gun ejected the fully blown out and split case. He then went on and fired 3 more rounds of 40 S&W before the 5th hung up and wouldn't extract. I walked up on him as I returned from the restroom and saw him trying to rack the slide because the gun was jammed. I took it from him not knowing yet what had happened and was able to open the slide and get the blown 5th case out. Amazingly, Praise God, he wasn't hurt. Also amazing, the gun was not damaged at all. I checked it out completely and it was fine. I fired one mag of 45 loads after inspection and it shot just as well as ever. NOW CAN WE JUST IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE BERETTA WAS A 10MM. I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT.
THIS WAS A VERY IMPORTANT AND SOBERING LESSON FOR ME TO LEARN. THANK GOD IT WORKED OUT THE WAY IT DID. I CAN JUST IMAGINE THIS WILL HAPPEN TO SOMEBODY ELSE ASSUMING I WASN'T THE FIRST. LET EVERYBODY LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE.

[Rusty Goose]

I examined a SIG Sauer P229 with no apparent damage after a fellow fired a 60 round qualification course (from 3yds out to 25 yds). He used 9mm, the gun is chambered in .357 SIG, he scored 270/300 by the way. All the cased ballooned out to ~.40 ish. His excuse is he is not a gun guy, all the bullets look the same.

[bayjoe]

That friend of yours definately has a guardian angel

[ddaniel1]

Good lesson, thanks, glad nobody was hurt.

[Springfield]

Seems to me that there wasn't actually any excess pressure at all, lots of room for the powder to expand. Kinda like shooting a 44-40 through a 45 Colt, no big deal except the cases split. Maybe I am missing something.

[williamwaco]

Seems to me that there wasn't actually any excess pressure at all, lots of room for the powder to expand. Kinda like shooting a 44-40 through a 45 Colt, no big deal except the cases split. Maybe I am missing something.

I wouldn't do it on purpose but I did buy a Ruger .44 Mag. Looked like brand new.

I took to the range and fired six rounds. At 15 yards they all hit the center of the target and made about a 6" group. Now the surprise. I couldn't eject the empties. I removed the cylinder and used my "range rod" to beat them out.

They were all split almost full length then I noticed they were all badly bulged from about a quarter inch in front of the rim to the mouth but they expanded enough to obturate the cylinder and there was no gas leakage.

I immediately retired it and took it home. I cast a cylinder and started comparing the cylinder cast to my reloading manual. It was a .45 Colt cylinder!

Ruger repaired it for me, but only if I returned the .45 colt cylinder. I really wanted to keep that cylinder.
Oh-Well, It is now a very nice SBH.

[bearstopper]

I was with a friend who fired 9mm through a .40 M&P with no ill effects other than severely bulged brass. Can't be too careful with guns though. I was shooting the same M&P on a later outing and emptied the clip into a target. I then dropped the slide and proceeded to sit down in a lawn chair and fondle the gun further when I happened to spot a round in the chamber. Apparently the slide locked back one round too soon. Even those with lots of experience can make dangerous mistakes but the key is to know you are capable of brain failure on occasion and plan for it.

[dagunnut]

Three years ago I was at the range next to a couple of young men firing a Beretta M9 in 9mm. They would fire it and then rack it back by hand to eject the spent casing. They were very upset at the pistols operation and verbalizing it quite loudly. Fire, rack, drop mag, and shake. I went over to see what the issue was, having carried one for years. Well to my surprise they were firing 380 auto out of it. When I asked why they were firing 380 in a 9mm they simply stated the other shells were more expensive. The pistol belonged to one of young mens father. I pointed out the dangers of firing the wrong rounds in the pistol and stated (I wouldn't do it if it were me). I also offered some of my 9mm ammo to them if they wanted to fire the gun safely. They hastily loaded up and left the range. This has not been the first case I have seen. Last year there was an older gentleman at the range firing a Remington 7400 in 30-06. I could here him firing away bang, bang, pop. He would go down range and check his target and get upset about the flier. I went over to talk to him about the change in sound from round to round. He said it must have been an old shell. I asked if I could see the shells he was using. He pulled the plastic shell carrier out of the box and i started to look at the headstamps. Sure enough there were a few 270 shells mixed into his box. We removed the shells and he was zeroed in 6 more shells. It happens but we as knowledgable shooters and reloaders should be aware and help out to insure the safety of others as well as ourselves.

[xfoxofshogo]

I wouldn't do it on purpose but I did buy a Ruger .44 Mag. Looked like brand new.

I took to the range and fired six rounds. At 15 yards they all hit the center of the target and made about a 6" group. Now the surprise. I couldn't eject the empties. I removed the cylinder and used my "range rod" to beat them out.

They were all split almost full length then I noticed they were all badly bulged from about a quarter inch in front of the rim to the mouth but they expanded enough to obturate the cylinder and there was no gas leakage.

I immediately retired it and took it home. I cast a cylinder and started comparing the cylinder cast to my reloading manual. It was a .45 Colt cylinder!

Ruger repaired it for me, but only if I returned the .45 colt cylinder. I really wanted to keep that cylinder.
Oh-Well, It is now a very nice SBH.

did you check the barrle ?? mabe its a 45

[Tom-ADC]

Mine friend put a couple of 44 mags thru my Blackhawk chambered for 45 Colt cases split but because of the diffrence is dia .429 vs .451 made a different noise but zero damage, I never let him shoot my guns until I varied the ammo.

[williamwaco]

did you check the barrle ?? mabe its a 45

Nope. It was a .44 Mag revolver, so marked and the barrel was .44.

Somewhere , somehow, somebody put the wrong cylinder in it.

[Dennis Eugene]

In a life and death situation, and if it was all I had I would use a .41 mag bullet loaded into a .44 mag revolver. It is safe enough but not necessarily sane enough but like I said in a life and death situation. Dennis

[45/70fan]

All of these experiences of firing undersize, wrong cartridges, out of a handgun and nothing harmful happening is because there is no pressure build up. On the other hand this is a very dangerous oversight should one of these cartridges slide down the bore and become lodged, then there would be an over pressure situation.

[frkelly74]

I saw some "shooters" struggling with trying to get a pistol to open up one time and had yo see what was going on. They had loaded up a 9mm auto pistol of some kind with 9mm Mak ammo ant the first round jammed into the chamber tight and was stuck. The gun was not all the way locked up so it wouldn't fire and they couldn't get it open. Isn't all 9mm ammo the same? was their question.

I also saw some people firing 45 GAP ammo in a 45 ACP. that was after the 2008 election and 45 ACP was difficult to find but 45 GAP was available to them. As long as the extractor held the cartridge to the bolt face everything worked as it should. Some things work and some don't.

[dale2242]

I have seen 40SW fired in a 1911 and a 41 mag fired in a 44 mag with no ill effects to the guns.
The cases were bulged. Not a good idea.
Not sure how much you could do that without harming your gun.....dale

[41 mag fan]

WOW...some of the things people can do, just not paying attention, or not knowing!!

Worst I ever had happen, was 2 1/2 decades ago, I shot a 357mag BH that had a bullet lodged in the barrel. It didn't hurt me or the gun, but it had a bigger than normal recoil. Last ooops like that I ever did

[blackthorn]

30 some years ago my cousin fired 13 303 Savage rounds through his 303 British rifle without even a jam! I went back to where he killed the Moose but could not find even one of the empties to see what they looked like. His first time hunting with a rifle bibber than a .22 and the clerk in the store gave him the 303 Savage ammo when he asked for a box of 303 Brit.

[DoubleAdobe]

Somebody, General Schwarzkopf or maybe Dick Cheney said, "You don't know what you don"t know".

[Artful]

Unsafe firearms & ammunition combinations from SAAMI
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_211-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf

One of the things I have learned is to keep guns and ammunition the same on the shooting bench, Keep the other guns and ammunition in the bag until done with the first combination.

One other thing to watch out for that people don't generally know - if your reforming cases to make other rounds - (wildcat or just to make something cheaper like 7.62x51 reformed into 358 or 243) you can't always trust the headstamp on the cartridge.

[archmaker]

Having had a 45ACP blow up in my hand once, the amount of pressure is not as much as you would think. The boolit dropped straight down through the magazine well, and a few small pieces of shrapnel, the largest, about 1/4" square went in about 3/8th into my hand and my hand was only about an inch above the case. No damage to the gun.

[firefly1957]

A friend fired a 41 mag in my 44 it was mixed in with the 44 ammo he bought from a licensed reloader for his police department no damage to the gun but it did not sound right and shot quite low.
It does surprise me that the 1911 45 functioned on 40 s&w at all with the bullet being smaller that the bore.

[popper]

Fortunately, 30-30 & 308 don't interchange. Sure is fun trying to get the case out though.

[MtGun44]

If the bullet is smaller than the bore, the pressures will be at least somewhere in
the reasonable range, and probably a lot lower than normal. Not a good thing, but
probably not all that dangerous.

NOT recommended.

It's the 7x57 round in a .270 or 8mm in a .30-06 that can cause some serious
pressures!

Bill