40/410 boolit for 410?

[Redd508]

Can the 410 hull be loaded hot enough and topped with a 180-210 gr cast 40 or 41 boolit to safely bring it up to 41 mag velocities? Is this feasible for judge/gov revolvers or maybe just for a more powerful 410 slug in shotguns? Has anyone tried it yet? My first thought is to make my NEF a slug gun fo my 8 y.o. Am I way off in my thinking?

[runfiverun]

how is that 411 sized boolit gonna shoot in a 45 caliber barell?
it's doable but a 41 ain't gonna cut it.

[Fluxed]

Way off in your thinking.
Don't do it.

[Redd508]

Its a little more than I had in mind but have a look.

http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/index.html

[runfiverun]

it will be barell dependant.
if you have a gun fit with a 410 groove diameter barell that's something else.
the judge is a 45.
if you go rifled barell
the same basics will apply here as they do to all guns.
you'll use a gas seal and some filler wads and a boolit seated on top,
you'll base your 410 loads on boolit weight and the weight of the filler wads.
[ejecta weight] assuming a plastic case.
the boolit will of course be full diameter like normal to engage the barell.
if you measure everything, a shoulder can be implemented on the boolit for a roll crimp on the shotshell case.
if using brass cases then a workup like a normal case would apply because you can use neck tension and a regular roll crimp into a canellure.

[dilly]

I may be mistaken, but are you u under the assumption that a 410 shotgun hull slug is about. 40 cal? A much better fit would be the 45 caliber bullets, of which there are many.
Am I off in my thinking? Are shotgun slugs under size to make up for the width of the hull? A 40 caliber bullet would need to be saboted or something because it is too small for a judge barrel. There is almost always a way to do it if you throw enough time and money at it.

[runfiverun]

he is talking about going directly to a 410 slug barell.
thats what the link shows.

[Redd508]

I'm looking for a plausible way to make a more effective 410 slug. Maybe a brass case and bullet is the way to go. My initial thought was seating a bullet inside the hull. Undersized yes but loaded the same as a standard 410 slug. My goal is a heavier projectile at a higher velocity than is available off the shelf but keeping pressures within safe limits. It may be that I should measure the muzzle and work back from there.

[Redd508]

Dilly I like the sabot idea too. Or maybe paper patch? I'm not terribly familiar with it yet. Theres too much to read here. I dont know where to start. But thats a good thing right?

[snuffy]

As always, shotgun slugs work because they're hollow based. Then they fly like a dart/shuttle cock, weight forward stability.

A solid boolit will exit a smooth barred shotty tumbling WITHOUT something to get it spinning.

The link to that .410 "shotgun" is more like a rifle with a plastic case. It would most likely be "not allowed" in a shotgun only county.

I messed around with an all-brass cased load for a Comanche 45/.410 SS pistol. Using a 452 Gas checked boolit, 255 grain, seated with the GC inside the mouth of the brass case. The idea was to get the boolit closer to the rifling than a 45 colt case could. To eliminate the freebore travel of the boolit. This would only work in a 3" cylinder for a judge, or the Comanche.

It fired, didn't blow up, and hit the target front forward each time. I didn't write anything down as to the load. Main problem would be somebody trying that shell in a .410 shotgun. It would fit into the chamber, but the pressure would skyrocket if fired. We never know what will happen to what we leave behind when we go to that big shooting range in the sky!

[jmort]

.410 slugs will get to 800 plus ft lbs. Brenneke 1/4 ounce slug is some serious medicine and will smoke most anything.

[Redd508]

So what is the effective range of a 1/4 oz slug factoring in trajectory? How much energy would it carry down range for deer or medium sized hogs? I'm looking for shots between 80 & 120 yards. I'll shop around and see what kind of hollow based molds i can find. Theres a similar thread in the shotgun forum about attaching a base to a round ball to make it fly straight. Similar to the shuttle cock idea

[jmort]

This will give some idea
http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/264.html

[leadman]

I guy I worked and hunted with years ago had an old single shot 410, think it was a Stevens, that was marked 44/410. It was made was before the 44 mag so it was referencing 44 special. And this gun was a full choke.
I used 460 S&W brass cut down in my T/C 45/410 barrel. Still was not very accurate.

[Redd508]

Trajectory is flatter than i thot it would be. Its pretty close to 357 mag velocities with 110 grain j-words. That makes it plausible. Now the question is can i roll my own. 110 grains seems kinda light for hunting tho. Esp hogs. Lead is better than jacketed but my concern is a lack of penetration. I reckon a test is in order

[cpileri]

One load I tried, and forget exactly where I saw it, was a .400 diameter 210-gr SWC seated backwards (nose first) into a BPI "stump" wad, starting load was 8gr of 2400, add enough wadding to get a good roll crimp. SHot straight enough in a Savage 22/410 at 25 yds. Since that barrel was full choked, abt .395, we never loaded it hotter. If there is such a thing as a cylinder bore 410 though...
C-

[Redd508]

Cpileri any idea what the velocity was?

[snuffy]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/50-rounds-golden-bear-410-3-97-grain-slugs.aspx?a=613987

Here's another option. I have fired a few of these, they're a BPI "post" wad and a wad that has a tit on it that goes up inside the hollow base of the slug. Similar to what Brenneke is offering. They are brass plated berdan primed shells.

[cpileri]

No chronograph, but i am both remembering the soruce and guessing that its just about 1100-ish fps out fo the long barrel, maybe less.
C-

[303Guy]

Remember that Lil'Gun powder was designed for the 410 shotgun. I've often looked at 410's with the idea of loading slugs or round balls and making hulls from 303 Brit cases. Being single shots, I would simply seal the slug or ball in with molten paraffin wax or beeswax. But then the power and range seems rather limited. I ended up buying a new single shot 12ga for the price of a cheap second hand Stevens. I never did complete the project. Maybe one day.

A way to cast slugs for the shotgun is to use a hex socket spanner for a mold and screw on a felt wad. A buddy did that and got quite good accuracy IIRC (for a shotgun).

[Destructor]

I have a Taurus Raging Judge magnum and I was looking into reloading 410 shells into slugs as well. I bought Federal rifled slugs (probably the worst shell) and pulled one apart. I measured the slug and found it was 1,1000 smaller than the 40 S&W Lee mould Boolits I was casting. I modified my cast to make the slug hollow from behind like the Federal round, and measured out the powder to make sure I have a basis to compare to. I got the weight within a couple of grains. Since I am shooting a rifled barrel I was happy to have the non rifled slug which federal only came in. Now for the reload I replaced the primer (of course ) measured my powder I use Winchester 231 and I found an amazing wad was just some cotton. The slug expands from the pressure to hug the barrel and fires nice and true. It is still a shot shell of course so its not as good as the colt 45 round but hey its good enough for me! Now my downfall is the Federal hulls are so cheap that after a reload they puff out in the back and jamb up my cylinder on the revolver so it won't turn. I am gona buy some more expensive rounds and try the shells from them and hope to find something that works.

Just my Experience in fooling around with it anyways

[turmech]

My first thought is to make my NEF a slug gun fo my 8 y.o. Am I way off in my thinking?

Why not if you are going to build a gun just have a 357 or 44 barrel put on a NEF shotgun? That is what I have been seriously consider doing for my youngest son. He is six an although he is not quite ready the time is approaching. He has a NEF with 22 and 410 barrels. Last I looked at the NEF site a 44 or 357 could be fitted for around $100. Nothing wrong with tinkering but it would seem easier to accomplish your goals with the 44 or 357.

[Redd508]

I'm not actually building a gun. I'm trying to purpose one by making specialty ammo. I'd like to squeeze out every bit of potential i can and get the youngins in the field

[RPRNY]

Pressure. You need to be extremely careful building cartridges for an SB1 frame and. 410 barrel. Depending on vintage, you are looking at a ductile iron frame and a 20,000 - 25,000 lbs chamber. There are some pretty potent Brenekke loadings out there that will be safe in that. 410. I would NOT experiment with heavy and hot loads in an NEF SB1 frame, especially not for my kid.

[Redd508]

I'm not looking to hot rod anything. FWIW my NEF is a new frame. My op did ask about safely increasing the velocities. I wont do something unsafe esp when my kids are involved.

[303Guy]

Shot shells use very fast powders, right? Black powder shot shells don't (obviously) and make one helluva muzzle boom. To get more velocity one would need a slower powder with more duration but can it be done with smokeless? Your kid would love BP shot shells!

[Redd508]

BP slug loads? 303Guy have you tried it? Can I get more velocity with BP?

[dakotashooter2]

I have a couple four tenner inserts so I first tried to drop in a bullet sized to .410....... no go.... way to tight a fit in the insert and it wouldn't fit in a federal 410 hull without bulging it.. Next I sized it down to .401...... It dropped through the barrel a bit loose. I'm guessing .403 or .404 would be about right and would fit a hull perfectly. A hollow base slug of that size might work and I think 150-170 grain slug would be better than a 200 to help keep pressures down.

I also tried inserting a .358 cast bullet into a 410 wad.....It was too tight. .354-.356 would probably be about right.

[leeggen]

You might want to look at this site, has some imfo that might help.
http://www.endtimesreport.com/410reloading.html

[cpileri]

I recently did a similar thing, looking for an extea long 45 colt shell (note this will only work in a 45 Colt chambered gun, not a 410). Here's the threead containing (through some fluff) the main info I was able to find or discover on my own.
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,223383.0.html
I was looking for info using projectiles, slugs basically and not shot,but there is some data there.

[Redd508]

I'm thinkin these might be worth a look.


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/11/08/hornady-critical-defense-410-triple-defense/