.22 TCM made in Pahrump NV!

[trooperdan]

Who knew? The .22 TCM is a hot handgun number based on the .223 case cut down to just over an inch. Rock Island builds 1911 platforms chamber for this little beauty, even have a combo that includes a 9x19 barrel! The TCM gives just over 2000 fps with a 40 grain J-word from a 5 inch barrel AND they have just announced a rifle coming out soon! Sounds like both my next handgun and my next rifle! Lee made a run of dies but I can't find a set and another run isn't until late summer.
https://us.armscor.com/products/tcm-22-vz-fullsize

[AggieEE]

Sounds like what the 5.7 should have been. No knock on the 5.7, I have 0 experiance with it ,just why a whole new case size when we already have a proven case design. just my 2 cents.
AggieEE

[DLCTEX]

Sounds like a fun round/gun combo.

[trooperdan]

They have also announced a rifle that takes the same mags.. due later in the summer for about $450.. can accept upto a 17 rd magazine!

[runfiverun]

i'd wager everybody in pahrump knew.
the place isn't remotely large,wouldn't even be there except there is a mine.
looks like i just described 80% of nevada's towns.

[quilbilly]

Bet the muzzle blast is exciting

[JeffinNZ]

bet the muzzle blast is exciting

Pardon?!

[trooperdan]

Whenever we mentioned "muzzle blast" I think of Skeeter Skelton's description of firing the Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. He said "I felt like someone set off a dynamite cap in each ear and hit me in the face with a wet towel! I have one of those and I have to agree, shooting factory ammo is just like that!

[Blammer]

so where is the rebarrel/mag kit combo for sale to retro fit your 1911?

[Blammer]

last I recall the 22 BOZ was the next hottest thing.

it was a 45acp necked down to 22 cal, it also recorded 2,000 fps for 40gr bullets, bet not many remember it.

this new one, combine the scarcity of 223 ammo and projectiles now, I think another flash in pan

[trooperdan]

Yeah, I remember the .22 BOZ... thought it came from our own resident "Boz" :) I think the TCM will have staying power and the rifle really anchors it IMO. As for conversion kits for 1911 frames, I think the OAL is too great. And this TONS of 5.56 brass around, just the current panic has driven the price up. In my area it used to go for .02 and I think it will soon be back there.

[jethunter]

It'a the .22 hornet re-invented.

[rond]

It'a the .22 hornet re-invented.

.22 magnum rifle performance in a handgun with a lot longer case life for the reloader than the hornet.

[Artful]

223 seems like a better case to start from

And yes I remember the 22 BOZ

Some background (taken from another forum):

The .224 BOZ was developed by Civil Defense Supply, located in the United Kingdom, and was begun as a Special Forces ammunition project for police and military use. In short, the concept was to design a new pistol cartridge that would deliver significantly more power than the current 9mm Parabellum as used in both handguns and submachine guns.

It was decided that the bullet chosen be one of proven design and so the 5.56mm round as used by NATO forces was selected. Not only was there a significant amount of data already collected on this bullet design, but it was also available in numerous configurations such as armor piercing, tracer, ball, and frangible. In looking for a starting point for the cartridge case both the 9mm Parabellum and the .40 S&W were looked at and then quickly dismissed as possible candidates because both lacked the case capacity to generate the required energy and velocity. The 10mm Auto was then chosen both for its power potential and existing firearm platforms readily convertible to the new cartridge.

The original test-bed for the .224 BOZ was a Colt Delta Elite. Using lightweight 50gn 5.56mm bullets velocities ranging from 1,750fps to 2,200fps were obtained. Eventually the Glock 20 was chosen as the foundation for the .224 BOZ PPW (Personal Protection Weapon) due to its "positive lock between barrel and frame." (It must be noted though that in this caliber a 5.5" barrel is considered "compact" and a 6.5" barrel is "standard.") For the carbine/submachine gun platform the HK MP5 was selected Not only is the MP5 series of submachine guns one of the most popular around the world, but it is also available in 10mm (though no longer in production). Royal Ordnance and Heckler & Koch worked together to develop the .224 BOZ PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) which is basically an HK MP5/10 chambered for the .224 BOZ round.

You can get similar ballistic's by reloading 7.62x25 with 30 caliber sabot to 224 bullets.

[jethunter]

.22 magnum rifle performance in a handgun with a lot longer case life for the reloader than the hornet.

...or so they claim. I will wait and see for myself. I remember too many "new" cartridges that didn't live up to their claims, most recently the 300 WSM cartridges: "better reload-ability, less recoil, less powder for more velocity than a 300 winchester magnum...."

Sure thing. :)

[worker]

sorry for resurrecting the old thread.
The sound wave is strong on this thing, but recoil is below 9mm -- so follow up shots are easy. The slide racking is probably the most surprising (especially for folks with weak grip) -- very easy, a slightly more than a .22. The RIA gun of course is a solid build. The fact that it comes with a 9mm conversion from the factory is just an icing on the cake. makes the purchase easy.

Waiting to see somebody on this forum to come up with a mold for it :-). I think making bullets for this thing such that they do no lead the barrel would not be easy. But I would be interested in trying this :-). I already have dies and brass for it.

Yes I am too waiting for the rifle version, expecting even better performance.

It replaced my itch for Keltec PMR30 and Fn 5x7.

If RIA builds a good ecosystem and places like Wolf and EFK Dragon make conversion barrels for it for the typical FNX/SIG/Glock/XD variety -- I think that will insure the longevity of this round. I believe it was a right choice to have it compatible with 9mm extractor/bolt face and fit into .38 super mags

[Artful]

worker check out the powder coating section several guys are already doing good work with powder coated in 223/5.56 rifles
example:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220557-Real-Accuracy-(2-moa-or-less)-with-Coated-Rifle-Bullets-at-1800-fps-or-greater

[worker]

interesting, thank you. Yes something like this will be needed for 2000+ fps (and probably 2600 fps for the rifle). Have you come across the working molds for this. My understanding was that the bullet had special cone to allow to fit more powder. ?

[dtknowles]

You can get similar ballistic's by reloading 7.62x25 with 30 caliber sabot to 224 bullets.

I can confirm that I have loaded 45 gr. bullets with sabots in 7.62 x 25 and got over 2000 fps from my CZ 52 without pushing any limits. I would think necking down 7.62 x 25 brass would be easier than messing with cutting down .223 brass.

Tim

[xacex]

I was thinking a .22 Lee Bator would make a good candidate for a heavy boolit. PC it up and don't worry about a gas check. I have been tossing this one around for a couple of years.Patiently waiting for it to make SAAMI and conversions to come out. It is the same length as a 38 super so any gun or magazine that can shoot that cartridge should be able to be retrofitted. From what I understand they are using Para 38 super mags for this.

[Artful]

Have you come across the working molds for this.
My understanding was that the bullet had special cone to allow to fit more powder. ?

Are you talking hollow based boolit? - Right now most are just using regular molds for powder coating.

[worker]

Are you talking hollow based boolit? - Right now most are just using regular molds for powder coating.

I meant regular shape, but I thought the base of the bullet was shaped uniquely (not flat). I might we wrong though.

I just found on this board a few folks experimenting with this

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226817-22-tcm-and-cast-boolits

[xacex]

To bad you were having problems with it. What were the issues/cases? I have read some load development for it and several have reported large velocity spreads, and inaccuracy with reloaded ammo. 300MP might be a good powder for this. H110 seems a tad touchy, and temperature sensitive.

[Artful]

I meant regular shape, but I thought the base of the bullet was shaped uniquely (not flat). I might we wrong though.

I just found on this board a few folks experimenting with this

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226817-22-tcm-and-cast-boolits

Ah, it just engaged - with the 22TCM you have the short magazine OAL problem - so your looking for a semi-pointed light weight (40 grain) mold to fit in the short neck and still fit in the magazine.
lyman 225438 hornet boolit is what's in the link and should work fine as powder coated.
http://www.montanabulletworks.com/images/r224_44_lym_rngc_105x105.jpg
NOE has some light weight designs
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/1111-127-225107%2037Gr%20RF.jpg
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_226_45Gr._RF_GC__46_gr_Sketch .Jpg
Bator
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000622BATOR6
Lee makes for Midsouth once or twice a year - out of stock on 2 cavity
but have 6 cavity in stock.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96724&d=1392409009

[rond]

I've had good luck with Lil Gun but it is hard to find, I haven't tried H110 yet but will try it next.

[mjwcaster]

Just shot one this weekend (Rock Island 1911 9mm/22tcm combo)
recoil was non existent, but muzzle flash and report were amazing.
Even while shooing it I would see the muzzle blast and the report, well it seemed louder than my 16" barrel 308.
Loud and bright were an understatement.

The more I think about it the more I would like one someday, just can't get believe 1800fps from a 1911.

Matt

[NavyVet1959]

Given the nature of some reloaders (myself included), I would not be surprised to see someone putting a heavier spring on it and trying a hotter load. If I stumble across one of these at a decent price, I'll probably pick it up. At the very least, my wife would enjoy a handgun whose slide she can actually pull back for a change.

[HATCH]

The problem is pressures and case volume.
I suppose that you can switch powders and get a faster burning powder but then your pressures would go way up.

I have loaded it using W296 or H110. I know other have loaded it using LiL Gun

[gbrown]

FYI--lbaize3 did a write up on his trip to the range with the 22 TCM rifle and his results down in the factory rifles subforum. He and I both purchased the pistol combo a couple of months ago. If you are a fan of the 1911 platform--I am, this is a good pistol. This is an all steel frame, and with it's weight, in both the 22 TCM and 9 mm, the recoil is hardly noticeable. I haven't notice the muzzle blast that some speak of. The pistol accuracy is good, factory ammo chronographs right at 1900 to 2000 fps. It's not a high dollar tack driver, but it's a good, solid pistol. Mine came with the 9 mm barrel, a spring for it, and an extractor for the 9mm. After reading a couple of threads down in Wheelguns, I didn't bother to change extractors, going to the 9mm, and didn't have any problems. Also, I bought 2 Meggar Para-Ordnance 18 round 38 Super magazines, and, with a little work on the top bend, they work fine. You can save a little money there. I'm satisfied and am planning to get a rifle to go with it.

[3006mv]

When is the single stack model available? Does anyone here have their rifle?

[HATCH]

I have one. They aren't going to make a single stack

[3006mv]

How do you like the rifle? Better than a .22 hornet or similar?

I wonder why they aren't making a single stack.

[NavyVet1959]

When is the single stack model available? Does anyone here have their rifle?

With small calibers like that, they gain a lot of their advantage from the number of rounds in the mags. The main competitor to the .22 TCM would be the 5.7x28 (i.e. FN Five-Seven) whose standard capacity is 20 rounds. From a practical matter though, the .22 TCM and 9mm are both going to give you the same number of rounds in a magazine.

I see where the Army has rejected Beretta's M9A3 submission for their next handgun. Although I think a 10mm would be a better choice, I would not be surprised if they went with a 5.7x28 based handgun. Decisions like that are often not so much about the superiority of a particular weapons so much as it is about economics.