Smelting questions

[Malpaso]

I've decided to take the plunge into casting. So I've spent the last day or so reading here, ordered the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, and started reading From Ingot to Target. Now I have more questions than before I started researching!

I'm going to concentrate on smelting questions before I even start thinking about the casting portion. I bought 260# of wheel weights yesterday ($.25/lb, not sure if that's good or bad) at a mom and pop tire place. They said to come back any time. Not sure if they're just friendly or if the price was right for them. They usually send them to the recycler. Now to buy some equipment. Here's where the questions come in.

No brainers: welding gloves, eye protection, mask or respirator.

Pot: Harbor freight has a 12" cast iron dutch oven for $29.99. There's one near my house, so hopefully they have some. Cheap welding gloves there too!

Heating unit: Will an electric hot plate work, or is a propane fired unit really necessary?

Utensils: Will a basic, dollar store ladle and slotted spoon function? Will steel, aluminum or any material do?

Ingot Molds: Do cupcake tins, or similar kitchen products work? Again, what material? The Lyman molds look nice, but pricey.

Thermometer: Necessary for the smelting process? Will any one that goes to ~1000*F work, or does it need to be hobby specific?

There's a handful of Home Depot paint stirrers in the basement for scraping & fluxing.

I've got a spot picked out on the far back patio. Put some cardboard down and keep the dog inside. Make sure there's no snow/rain on the forecast.

Anything I'm missing?

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Treat you ma & pa tires store like royalty, you got a great deal on the WW.
Dollars store utensils work fine, especially stainless steel ones.
Do NOT bang on the HF dutch oven, many have broken from the vibrations.
I dont think a hot plate is gonna be hot enough for a dutch oven, but I never tried one

[gray wolf]

If you don't know how to identify and discard the bad WW you may need the thermometer.
Keep the melt no higher than about 650* F I think the zinkers melt at 750*

[captaint]

Welcome, Malpaso.. While it's not pleasant, I always sort through my WW's in order to eliminate
any zink, steel or aluminum. I use the wire cutters to "cut" into the weights. If you can't make
a good mark easily, they get separated out from the lead. Most are marked Fe, Zn, Al. But not
all are marked. Also, I have a propane fish fryer and the same cast dutch oven you got. Do
be careful not to tap on the sides with your ladle. It'll crack the pot. FWIW, I heat my pot
up slowly, also to avoid cracking. All that aside, it does work well. Mike

[10 ga]

Welcome Malpaso, Heed what Flinchbaugh said and the others to follow.
Avoid anything Al unless it's a ingot mold. Flux with sawdist or paper shreds from your household shredder they are the cheapest things to use and pleny available and work real good. Have a strong table to work on as bending over is very tiresome. Years ago I started with a dutch oven and a Coleman 2 burner camp stove, still have the stuff and use it for pre heating ore when doing a big smelt now. Keep all your different types of smelted ore ingots marked for blending alloy purposes, I just use a "magic marker". Lurk about here on the board and read what other posters have done with their first posts. Be safe in your work and actions. Don't try to go too fast. Do not drink, smoke, chew, eat or be distracted when smelting. Good luck and post some pix and results. Welcome to the addiction! 10 ga

[dilly]

Welcome to the hobby. Some people say not to smelt where you cast if you have an electric furnace as you will soon find out smelting is very dirty.

Maybe someday I will progress to that stage but as of right now I still smelt and cast over an old fish frier. If I ever get to spend 350 on an RCBS pro melt though nothing dirty will go in there.

Sounds like you have the right idea for the most part as long as you keep t the zinc out.

[Jon]

I don't think the hot plate will work for a dutch oven, but you could try it. Just don't put much in for lead. It will get heavy fast.

I have a slotted spoon from the dollar store to pull out clips and whatnot when smelting. You will want a solid spoon for clearing off the dross, and dirt.

You don't need too much to get started, just be careful when sorting wheel weights. Most of the zinc ones should be marked with a Zn.

Get as much lead as you can at that price. Lead wheel weights are getting harder and harder to find.

[Dragoon454]

After trial and error what I came up with that works for me is a fish fryer/turkey fryer. I had a gift card to the mother of all rip offs, GM, but they had a fish fryer on sale for $39.99 and I used the gift card and only paid $15 plus tax. I looked at the HF cast dutch ovens but couldn't find them in stock so I bought a Lodge 5 qt at WM for $36, plus the Lodge is also made right here in TN. I also bought a Tel True 200-1000 thermometer from kck.com.

I initially tried smelting on a hot plate that I got for free with a SS pot I bought from WM and it was slow going and 1 pot only did one muffin tin tray. I read about the turkey fryer but they were over $70, and after all casting is about saving money (but it's fun too). Look for LP fish fryer deals, they tend to be cheaper than turkey fryers even in the off season here. Although not necessary, a propane setup will make your life easier and the process more enjoyable. Below is my process, feel free to critique everyone as I am learning and the only reason I got to this point is because of Cast Boolits.

SAFETY! I use long sleeve natural fiber shirt, long natural fiber pants, a full face shield, welding gloves, and heavy leather boots. This is minimum! There is serious risk in smelting and you are responsible for doing it safely. If any of my information is unsafe, or you feel it to be unsafe, DO NOT FOLLOW IT!

1. Partially sort WW. Segregate clip ons from stick ons and Fe from Zn. I get rid of all the trash and separate the stick ons, then separate enough lead clip ons to get the smelt started.

2. Fire up the burner and add what I know is lead clip ons and melt until molten. I typically check this with the thermometer and try to keep below around 725 degrees.

3. Once molten start adding COWW that have had the stick ons and trash sorted out but not been sorted for Fe or Zn.

4. Watch the melt closely and as soon as it gets a good melt I add more COWW and continue the process until the pot gets reasonably full. If you pay close attention it's easy to tell when the lead is good and molten yet there are WW that have not even began to melt. As the melt goes you can hold a lead WW under and it will melt quick but the Fe and Zn will not. If you do not pay close attention once everything starts melting you can introduce zinc and ruin the batch. Don't be skeert, it takes a while for things to melt and when you add more it takes a while longer so the time between lead COWW melting and Zn COWW melting is an easy 5-10 min or longer.

5. Once molten I drop in a half a tea light candle and stir to flux and start pulling out the COWW that have not melted (Fe and Zn) with a cheap SS slotted spoon. Be careful, some say not to flux as the contaminants on the WW do this. In my experience, without the flux the WW i take out have silvery stuff attached, this is tin and it is not good to remove it. Next I flux again using the same method and removed the steel clips. Then I flux again and remove the dross. I may flux 5 or 6 times depending on how dross I get off. I think I paid like $3 or $4 for 50 of the wax tea lights at WM.

6. I spray my muffin tins with the Frankford Arsenal release agent. I have tried the method in the youtube videos of not letting it cool too long and I have tried letting the tins rust but they still stick for me. My first muffin tin had 2 cups left after 2 smelting sessions and only being filled once each time. Last session I sprayed an identical tin with the release agent and let them cool to where I could handle them without gloves and it has all cups remaining after being filled multiple times.

7. Ladle your molten lead into the moulds and let cool.

8. Once cool turn out onto a hard surface.

I hope this helps.

AtomicTaco

[Malpaso]

Quite the comprehensive response. Thank you :awesome:

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

BTW, if you find yourself with any quantity of zinc WW, there is a member here who will trade you straight across pound for pound for lead.

[Bardo]

I just bought 2 more of these from walmart last night. They are aluminum and very sturdy. I have had other aluminum ones but they bend pretty easy when full off lead. Each ingot is about 2#. I now have 4 of these and can pour about 100# at a time. They cost 9.99 each. I have used my other 2 alot and they dont stick.

62060


This is someone on the forum that sale excelent tools. I have one of his large ladles and one large ingot mold.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?86784-Smelting-tools-for-sale

Bardo

[Malpaso]

Just got back from a shopping trip. Tractor Supply had a turkey fryer advertised on line for $49.99 "in selected stores". Of course, not at the local store. Fortunately, across the street is a Dollar Store. Bought five muffin tins, slotted spoon and ladle for $7. Also got a telescoping magnet (thought it might help sorting) and a pair of cheap dykes at KMart. Hopefully hit Harbor Freight this weekend to see about fryers and cast pots.

Question on thermometer; how log should the stem be? Does it need to be as long as the pot is deep?

[turmech]

Some of the cheap muffin tins won't work well for ingots. The lead ingot sticks and is nearly impossible to remove from the muffin tin. Don't ask me how I know.

[41 mag fan]

If you got an old propane tank, cut the top off it and use for a smelter pot.

[runfiverun]

4" or longer will be enough, anything that covers 500-900-f will work.

[Malpaso]

Good info from all, thanks. A specific question on electric melters/furnaces. Other than not being able to smelt a large quantity at a time, is there any reason not to use a Lee/Lyman electric melter for smelting, as long as I use a separate one for casting? I own a Townhouse, and really don't want to smelt with neighbors so close. So, I'd rather a smaller, portable smelting set up that I can transport to the g/f's house. At least to start, I don't see myself smelting hundreds of pounds at a time. If that changes in the future, I would consider getting a larger system and a permanent site. I don't want to have more than I need, but I don't want to not have enough either.

[detox]

You can melt your WW down using any 10 or 20 lb pot, but each ingot would be inconsistant in hardness. I like melting all of 5 gallon bucket together at once so that each ingut will be equal hardness and mix, I use a large iron pot (5 " deep by 12" across)on fish cooker. When melted i flux the whole mix using wax then I use a large steel plumbers ladle for pouring ingots.

I would go ahead and use the 20lb electric furnace to smelt and cast a few (roughly 500 bullets) for grins. Then later you could use a larger setup for a more cosistant mix.

[Malpaso]

You can melt your WW down using any 10 or 20 lb pot, but each ingot would be inconsistant in hardness.

That makes sense.

[detox]

I would go ahead and use a single 20lb electric furnace to smelt and cast a few (roughly 500 bullets) for grins. Then later you could use a larger setup for a more cosistant mix.