The flyer.....why grown men cry.

[JeffinNZ]

So I go to the range at lunch time with the .303 Pygmy in tow. I had shot a couple of 10 round groups at 100m at the weekend that had been very ugly. 4 MOA material :( . Went home and got to thinking that this was the first batch of pan lubed bullets I had done and the bore riding nose had been covered in lube which was new for me. Maybe this was the problem:idea: .

Last evening I loaded 10 more rounds aided by my super flash new custom Lee Collet die but this time wiped ALL the lube off the bore riding nose of the 220gr bullets.

This is the result.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/100Pygmy.jpg

The fourth round went wide and I THINK this may have been the result of a gas check not fully seated. The shank on the CBE bullet is very stout and I seat the checks using the Lyman 45 I have assisted by the gas check seater.

Soooooooo 4 shots in under and inch at 110 yards and 1 cursed flyer. And that, gentlemen, is why grown me cry. :violin:

[Bass Ackward]

Jeff,

Nice going. Bet it felt rewarding.

Strange about the lube, huh?

Any thoughts about this in retrospect?

[1Shirt]

Haven't tested the theory yet, but think that what you mention about gas check may have a lot of validity. I notice that there is often a difference in the fee of putting a chrimp on gas check on the base of some that I have cast. I think that there is a distinct possibility that part of this problem is an inconsistancy in timing while casting. A nice clean center cut on the base each time produces (for me at least) the most consistant application of the gas check. If I get in a hurry, or try to get a perfect blt befor the mold is hot enough, there is often a slight variation. Have noticed this on the base of some gas checks after they were applied and sized, with slight but noticable markings on the bsse of the checks. Think these may account for some of my fliers. Any inconsistancy with any part of the projectile can not but have effect on it after it leaves the bbl. Think I am going to have to add one more step to blt inspection befor I weigh them. Am sure that there are a lot out there who are more precise than I am, or have been, but, am going to start becoming more precise I think.
1Shirt!:coffee: :coffee:

[Buckshot]

............Every now and then God causes a flyer. It keeps you from becoming insufferable. God WANTS you to have friends :-)

..............Buckshot

[JeffinNZ]

............Every now and then God causes a flyer. It keeps you from becoming insufferable. God WANTS you to have friends :-)

..............Buckshot

I wise man indeed. LOL.

Made a gas check flaring tool tonight to spread the check mouth 4 thou inch. NOW they go easy. Will shoot on Thursday.

[Wayne Smith]

"The Bullet's Flight" by W F Mann. Dr. Mann had his BA in Physics. I'm a psychologist, I'm lost in all the math! I think he answered, experimentally, most of the questions about what happens to cast bullets. His specific quest was to explain the flier - experienced by even the best shots.

[1Shirt]

Gotta like Buckshots answer to the situation. It keeps us a bit more humble and less inclined to brag. However, when it is the 10th. shot of a 10 shot group that was hovering around and inch and opens it up to 2 and a half, I hope the good Lord keeps his ears covered at that time. That by the way is twice or maybe three times as bad as the 5th. going out of a 5 shot group, and the volume of cussin increases proportionatly.
1Shirt!:coffee: :coffee:

[targetshootr]

I blame them on adrenaline caused by nice groups.

[longbow]

Jeff:

I had a similar problem with a .303 No. 5 using 314299's dipped lubed with lube up on the noses.

Groups had been "decent" but needed work then I got carried away with lube and groups went bad - very bad. I remembered reading about Shutzen shooters claiming that you need "just enough lube to stop leading... too much lube causes the boolit to float".

I scraped the extra lube off the noses of remaining boolits and groups improved.

[leftiye]

Longbow, heat the boolits, and set them nose up after dipping. You'll have to experiment with the heats of the lube, and the boolits, but you can get the thickness/thinness of coating you want that way.

Does anybody have any idea how much lube coating on the boolits noses help accuracy, and how much is too much? My thoughts rotate around rifling grooves being .004-.005" deep, and that the lube on the noses should be displaced into the grooves from the bore riding parts of the boolits completely with out any excess left over to push ahead of the boolit. Sounds like about a .002" coating or less should be the goal. That's probably like saying "as thin as possible."

Remember the driving bands follow the bore riding part, and leave no room for this lube to get past them, so the boolit pushes this lube forward with it. Sounds like it should solve the old problem of how the front driving bands get lubed. Maybe a lube that evaporates might be good too as too much lube wouldn't accumulate on the boolit or on the bore.

[JeffinNZ]

Well now just to throw a spanner in the works the other day I carried out an experiment and shot some nose lubed bullets and they shot like a house on fire putting down a group of 1.7 inches at 110 yards and the 2 wider shots were "shooter induced".

I think gas check cant may have been the issue and my soon to arrive brand new 4500 will aid in correcting this I hope.

[Bass Ackward]

Well now just to throw a spanner in the works the other day I carried out an experiment and shot some nose lubed bullets and they shot like a house on fire putting down a group of 1.7 inches at 110 yards and the 2 wider shots were "shooter induced".

Absolutely. The best accuracy occurs just before leading begins. The problem is finding that "balanced" point. Because to little you lead and once the line is crossed too with much, lube can begin to act like a fouling.

Bullet design means everything here. Years ago when lubes were poor and poorly applied, (simple grease) bore rides with clean out grooves ahead of the front band were popular. This gave the extra lube and junk a place to get away from the bore. For handguns it is semiwadcutters.

[buck1]

............Every now and then God causes a flyer. It keeps you from becoming insufferable. God WANTS you to have friends :-)

..............Buckshot

He must want me to have a lot of them!!